Wedge issues Federally, east Pipeline

[densa44]

The other thread I started on how government's make decisions, has gone on for 4 pages and is talking about morality and politics. I have only 2 points to make on that; the first God gave us 10 commandments and after thousands of years being generous, only 3 of them are laws, and as John Stuart Mill said in his book "On Liberty" , "The state has no role in the sphere of self regarding conduct" I digress.

Just imagine you are sitting in a conference in Ottawa deciding on the government's campaign platform for the next election. Someone suggests that with Codere out of the way the feds may have a second shot at a pipeline to the east coast.

Ignoring all the problems and costs of building it for the moment, the first question that is asked is; "how many seats will we win in Alberta if we try?"
I'll let you guys answer that (I don't know the answer) and the second will we lose any in Quebec? They might win some in the P.Q. I don't know but this is the kind of issue that depending how it is played could work for either side.

Given politicians are amoral, and that's a good thing, which direction would you recommend?

Aren't Canadian politics fascinating?

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by densa44

Aren't Canadian politics fascinating?

[Stinky Buffalo]

Interesting discussion topic, Densa44! Gotta mull that one over...

[Bushrat]

Codere has been replaced with a feminist who is even more anti pipeline. If the liberals had actually wanted a pipeline it would already be happening. The feds were only giving the west some pipeline lip service hoping to lessen western alienation during election time to conserve as many western votes as possible, at the same time knowing it wouldn't hurt their voting base in the east and Quebec because they know those people would not have voted conservative regardless of whether there would be pipeline or not.

[ACM]

First the myth of a God giving us commandments is a little thin when you start to do realistic research. Second pipelines do not need to be built- we have enough already. Process the product at source in Alberta and that will effectively double capacity in existing as we only ship one way and its a better product to ship. Trudeau and his cabinet are not interested in the tough work that has to be done. Now we have a radical in charge of the NDP and a career politician from Saskatchewan in charge of the Conservatives. Liberals will win again and maybe even bigger than last time in all likelihood.

[2000victory]

Hit them with the obvious...If the net worth of the western provinces declines , so will your more than generous equalization payments decrease by the same proportion , or worse , the west stops paying and you now receive ZERO , due to your defiance of a pipeline.

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by ACM

First the myth of a God giving us commandments is a little thin when you start to do realistic research. Second pipelines do not need to be built- we have enough already. Process the product at source in Alberta and that will effectively double capacity in existing as we only ship one way and its a better product to ship. Trudeau and his cabinet are not interested in the tough work that has to be done. Now we have a radical in charge of the NDP and a career politician from Saskatchewan in charge of the Conservatives. Liberals will win again and maybe even bigger than last time in all likelihood.

I think another refinery or two would benefit us nationally but not much at all in terms of export. The existing clients who purchase crude already have their own refineries so if we only want to sell them finished products they will shop elsewhere because many others will certainly sell it to them. Many foreign refineries operate where their labor costs are lower, which relates to both the refinery's operating cost but also in the capital it took to build the darned thing. If they can buy raw stock and refine it much cheaper than we could, why would they want to buy refined product from us? Remember it's the market as a whole that sets these conditions, no single provider of consumer has enough clout to end-run all of the others.

So far as the OP's topic is concerned, I am perpetually dumbfounded by why the Liberals seem to think that O&G needs to be flogged and led to ruin be it by intentional legislation or simple inaction. Why do they not simply let the goose that lays golden eggs forage for scratch and continue producing? Sure if they want to play favorites with their financial supporters such as Bombardier and Martins shipping company have at it, but there's no need to be petty and vindictive with other industries.

Perhaps they just like forcing stock prices down so their cronies can load up on shares.....

[amosfella]

Originally Posted by densa44

The other thread I started on how government's make decisions, has gone on for 4 pages and is talking about morality and politics. I have only 2 points to make on that; the first God gave us 10 commandments and after thousands of years being generous, only 3 of them are laws, and as John Stuart Mill said in his book "On Liberty" , "The state has no role in the sphere of self regarding conduct" I digress.

You can trust the government to take something simple, 'thou shalt not murder', and complicate it with 1000 pages or statute, rules, regulations, code, etc., and in the end have the murderer walk free...

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by 2000victory

Hit them with the obvious...If the net worth of the western provinces declines , so will your more than generous equalization payments decrease by the same proportion , or worse , the west stops paying and you now receive ZERO , due to your defiance of a pipeline.

The other provinces don't worry about equalization payments from us, if the west have a shortfall and can't make transfer payments the feds will make it up to them and simply add it to the momentous debt pile they never intend to ever pay off until the whole thing eventually collapses and we all go down. They don't care about Canada's financial situation and will pile up debt until we're insolvent. Pretty much all other countries are doing the same thing, seemingly intentionally bankrupting their nations by out of control spending way beyond any ability to pay the debt their gov'ts are creating. When it collapses they will shrug it off saying they did the best they could and gather at their financial havens around the world and create a new global monetary policy and global government offering some form of Marxist Socialism that the population will welcome because of the dire situation created by this international financial collapse. This of course will apply to everyone but the chosen few that orchestrated this event, they will profit and live fabulously ever after dictating from their luxurious enclaves around the world until the next global civil war.

Ain't conspiracy theories fun!

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

The other provinces don't worry about equalization payments from us, if the west have a shortfall and can't make transfer payments the feds will make it up to them and simply add it to the momentous debt pile they never intend to ever pay off until the whole thing eventually collapses and we all go down. They don't care about Canada's financial situation and will pile up debt until we're insolvent. Pretty much all other countries are doing the same thing, seemingly intentionally bankrupting their nations by out of control spending way beyond any ability to pay the debt their gov'ts are creating. When it collapses they will shrug it off saying they did the best they could and gather at their financial havens around the world and create a new global monetary policy and global government offering some form of Marxist Socialism that the population will welcome because of the dire situation created by this international financial collapse. This of course will apply to everyone but the chosen few that orchestrated this event, they will profit and live fabulously ever after dictating from their luxurious enclaves around the world until the next global civil war.

Ain't conspiracy theories fun!

At what point is it no longer a conspiracy theory, but a plan in action?

[IR_mike]

Originally Posted by ACM

Second pipelines do not need to be built- we have enough already. Process the product at source in Alberta and that will effectively double capacity in existing as we only ship one way and its a better product to ship.

Ya your right.....The growing Asian populations/economies are to small of a market to pursue and Europe enjoys being energy governed by Russia.

Might as well close this one down mods as we can rely on Keystone XL and Kinder Morgan for eternity.