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Old 07-07-2020, 09:20 AM
Prewar Prewar is offline
 
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Default Cypress hills elk

I did not win the first hunt for antlered elk in Cypress hills. Would have easily won last years first hunt with a priority 12 but no luck now with a '13'. I am wondering if an error occurred with the switch from "either sex' to "antlered" status for this hunt and I got entered with a "0" instead of "13" priority. Perhaps a lot of other hunters now put in for this new opportunity with their high priority antlered elk status....Anybody got notes to compare?????????
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Old 07-07-2020, 09:45 AM
Byron Byron is offline
 
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Seems weird you didn't get drawn looking at the draw results for the Nov 2- Nov 6 first hunt you were 100% as a Priority 9 and even some 8's got drawn maybe a mistake on applications?

There were some very high priorities that entered some of the draws this year I a noticing that for sure as I missed my bull elk draw on a priority 11 and thought I would have a chance this year.
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Old 07-07-2020, 10:08 AM
KJPFISH KJPFISH is offline
 
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I also didn't get drawn for the first hunt and I had a 17 Priority. I wonder if the old priority didn't get applied! Time to phone AlbertaRELM!
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Old 07-07-2020, 11:06 AM
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Surprise surprise, I knew they'd screw this up

How are they going to fix this one? Under the 2020 draw summaries, and under antlered elk, they don't have the first season listed.

You guys wouldn't have been able to apply if they didn't have tags allotted.

I bet that phone is ringin' off the hook
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  #5  
Old 07-07-2020, 11:12 AM
Byron Byron is offline
 
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Under draw summary code 858- WMU 116, 118 , 119 & 624 Nov 2- Nov 6 2020.

Is that not the first season? It in the summary
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  #6  
Old 07-07-2020, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron View Post
Under draw summary code 858- WMU 116, 118 , 119 & 624 Nov 2- Nov 6 2020.

Is that not the first season? It in the summary
You're right Byron, i didn't see it because the second season is way below it at 911. Why they wouldn't group them together in the summaries is beyond me.

Either way, there were guys with higher priority that weren't awarded the hunt. What a rodeo
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Old 07-07-2020, 11:28 AM
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Ya I'm sure Relm is dealing with a LOT of not impressed calls as I'm sure tons of people are trying to figure out why they didn't draw antlered or antlerless elk with much higher priority then what was shown as necessary not to mention the priority not being transferred.

Hard to imagine a complete overhaul to our draw system as some are wanting when one small transition was messed up so much.
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Old 07-07-2020, 11:31 AM
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I checked my draws and the priorities worked out according to what I expected and the draw results. For you guys that got messed over I would definitely be calling Alberta Relm to straighten this out and if they can't get it right I would be contacting Nixon's office as well as my MLA. Even if they have to completely redo that draw and notify all applicants then that is what they need to do.

These guys get paid a lot of money to do this, in general I think they do a good job but if I had waited 17 years for a draw and didn't get it when I should, I would not be very forgiving about it.
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Old 07-07-2020, 01:29 PM
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They buggared it up for my wife as well. Still shows her as a priority 4 for either sex and now its a 1 for antlerless. are you guys seeing the same? Also, did any of you guys try for zones other than the cypress ones? In theory the priority should roll over into the draw code and thus be valid in any of the antlerless elk zones. just curious if it only screwed up for us that applied in other areas. i talked to albertarelm and they said it didnt have to be in the cypress area.
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Old 07-07-2020, 02:19 PM
KJPFISH KJPFISH is offline
 
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I also didn't get drawn for the first hunt and I had a 17 Priority. I wonder if the old priority didn't get applied! Time to phone AlbertaRELM!
I finally got through to AlbertaRELM and was advised that my previous priority 17 for Either Sex Elk (Draw Code 41) for some reason did not get transferred over to Antlered Elk (DRaw Code 18) for the Cypress Hills first season (858). I have been promised a phone call to sort it all out. I'm expecting a tag, which likely means that someone with a lower priority will lose out or may be they will just re-draw. I'll send out an update, if/when, I hear back.
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Old 07-07-2020, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mulecrazy View Post
They buggared it up for my wife as well. Still shows her as a priority 4 for either sex and now its a 1 for antlerless. are you guys seeing the same? Also, did any of you guys try for zones other than the cypress ones? In theory the priority should roll over into the draw code and thus be valid in any of the antlerless elk zones. just curious if it only screwed up for us that applied in other areas. i talked to albertarelm and they said it didnt have to be in the cypress area.
I was priority 7 last year,decided to go with the antler route with the change. Was only 999ing anyways but my priority said 6 on the draw code 18 plus the 999 entry this year,basically did not get my point but in fact stayed at a 7. I emailed this morning see if I get a reply and what they say.
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Old 07-07-2020, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mulecrazy View Post
They buggared it up for my wife as well. Still shows her as a priority 4 for either sex and now its a 1 for antlerless. are you guys seeing the same? Also, did any of you guys try for zones other than the cypress ones? In theory the priority should roll over into the draw code and thus be valid in any of the antlerless elk zones. just curious if it only screwed up for us that applied in other areas. i talked to albertarelm and they said it didnt have to be in the cypress area.
It actually rolled over for me...I had years of either sex elk built up and “chose 999” antlered elk as my choice and the correct priority is now showing for antlered elk...going to pull the tag next year.
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Old 07-07-2020, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Hunter4ever12 View Post
I was priority 7 last year,decided to go with the antler route with the change. Was only 999ing anyways but my priority said 6 on the draw code 18 plus the 999 entry this year,basically did not get my point but in fact stayed at a 7. I emailed this morning see if I get a reply and what they say.
Seems hit and miss as I did just as you and even gained this years point in the new draw code...I’m sure they will hash it out.
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Old 07-09-2020, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJPFISH View Post
I finally got through to AlbertaRELM and was advised that my previous priority 17 for Either Sex Elk (Draw Code 41) for some reason did not get transferred over to Antlered Elk (DRaw Code 18) for the Cypress Hills first season (858). I have been promised a phone call to sort it all out. I'm expecting a tag, which likely means that someone with a lower priority will lose out or may be they will just re-draw. I'll send out an update, if/when, I hear back.
My assumption is that they will just give you a tag and leave it at that. They will not just call someone and say yeah you dont have it anymore. You cant put the toothpaste back into the tube. Its no big deal if they have 16 tags vs 15.
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Old 07-09-2020, 07:43 AM
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I have also emailed Minister Nixon to get the ball rolling on that end. The fact that the call center flat out lied to me and said that their was a 4 year window described in the draw booklet is completely unacceptable. They told me that because she hadnt applied for over 4 years the priority shouldnt roll over. They cannot make up rules that essentially make my priority expire. I told her the reason was due to life circumstances. With young kids it was tough to get out there to do the hunt when it is 3 hours away. She had been putting in for elk in a closer area for the last 4 years with the full intention that she would use those points at a later time when the kids were older.
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Old 07-09-2020, 08:50 AM
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I just checked my account this morning and it now has another priority point added to it,didn’t get an email reply back or anything. Maybe there was so many calls they rechecked everyone’s either sex draw in the end. Be interesting to see what happens with you higher priority guys not getting your draw.
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  #17  
Old 07-10-2020, 12:00 PM
KJPFISH KJPFISH is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJPFISH View Post
I finally got through to AlbertaRELM and was advised that my previous priority 17 for Either Sex Elk (Draw Code 41) for some reason did not get transferred over to Antlered Elk (DRaw Code 18) for the Cypress Hills first season (858). I have been promised a phone call to sort it all out. I'm expecting a tag, which likely means that someone with a lower priority will lose out or may be they will just re-draw. I'll send out an update, if/when, I hear back.
I finally just received the following email resonse from AlbertaRELM:
"Thank you for your e-mail. We apologize for the inconvenience you’re experiencing. I see that you have called in and the case has been escalated for an answer. We will get back to you as soon as we get the answer on what happened." I'm not holding my breath. I am now sending an email to Minister Nixon and my MLA.
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Old 07-16-2020, 09:48 AM
Prewar Prewar is offline
 
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Got a call yesterday. The lady offered to give me 2 priority points for their error. I declined. I know Im gonna win next years first hunt with a "14'...the extra point is just an insult. I told her to just repeat the draw. Was told "no" that would take away from their "legitimacy". Its a little late for that.

So theyre gonna call all 21 folks who got screwed, get their opinions etc...The whole idea that they're gonna f--k over 21 people in the hopes that the 15 or so who unexpectantly won with their lower priorities don't get their feelings hurt sure ****es me off.

I made an offer...I will accept a tag in my home WMU for another species to be hunted in November. This draw takes about 4 years to win. I also stated that my P2 for that hunt will remain as such...This tag will be to replace the Elk hunt I got f----d out of.

This ones personal...I hunted in cypress in 2006. A 4 day hunt back then. Missed the first day...my fathers funeral. Was a bit cool to doing this hunt again...brings back alot of memories and all. Got a cow last morning of that hunt. Felt ready to do it this year...Not happening now. Was hoping "we" could get a bull this time...
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Old 07-16-2020, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Prewar View Post
Got a call yesterday. The lady offered to give me 2 priority points for their error. I declined. I know Im gonna win next years first hunt with a "14'...the extra point is just an insult. I told her to just repeat the draw. Was told "no" that would take away from their "legitimacy". Its a little late for that.

So theyre gonna call all 21 folks who got screwed, get their opinions etc...The whole idea that they're gonna f--k over 21 people in the hopes that the 15 or so who unexpectantly won with their lower priorities don't get their feelings hurt sure ****es me off.

I made an offer...I will accept a tag in my home WMU for another species to be hunted in November. This draw takes about 4 years to win. I also stated that my P2 for that hunt will remain as such...This tag will be to replace the Elk hunt I got f----d out of.

This ones personal...I hunted in cypress in 2006. A 4 day hunt back then. Missed the first day...my fathers funeral. Was a bit cool to doing this hunt again...brings back alot of memories and all. Got a cow last morning of that hunt. Felt ready to do it this year...Not happening now. Was hoping "we" could get a bull this time...
That’s ****ty... but I can’t see them doing a trade/barter agreement with you for a different tag in a different zone.

I know a buddy who got screwed out of a 438 sheep tag one year... then he pulled it two years later, they did nothing for him.

A ministers tag holder killed a sheep, then my buddy and him but in as a group for 438 the following year with the same priority.

Somehow they disqualified their entry because the guy in the group killed a sheep the previous year... EXCEPT the ministers tag is separate from the rule of “killing a sheep two years in a row”... so they screwed up by disqualifying them... they almost lost the Priority point too! You know what than means when you are in 438 top pool... in the end they kept their point, and he pulled it two years later.

LC
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Old 07-16-2020, 10:33 AM
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If true that RELM offered "extra" priority points as compensation for their error....

There is going to be trouble for them.
It could even cost them their contract with the government.

In no way are they authorized to do such a thing.

Nor can they offer a different tag as compensation.

Prewar, some advice to get this resolved.
Do in in writing, not verbally.

This needs a papertrail.

The only legal,viable and equitable path forward is to re-do this draw.
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Old 07-16-2020, 11:17 AM
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A family friend got the call yesterday too, and they offered him an extra priority point. He obviously said no, as he had a priority 14 as well. They said they’ll let him know on Friday how they are proceeding. What a travesty.

They need to re-draw and make things right. The guys that got screwed need to dig-in and write a letter to the minister. Take the tags away from the one’s that were wrongfully awarded with lower priority, regardless of their feelings, its the right thing to do. If this scenario doesn’t happen, and the letters are ignored, then legal action should be considered

Think about this for a second, those amount of priority points are a big chunk of a hunter’s career. What if some of the guys that got screwed don’t make it to next season, or they develop a disability in the mean time. All those years of waiting for a chance at having a great experience, are flushed down the toilet

What if next year, they decide to just draw strictly for cows, because the conservation goals aren’t being met? That’d make things even worse for the guys that were saving priority all those years for a bull.

To the guys that got screwed......don’t take this lightly, you owe it to yourself and other hunters who rely on the integrity of the draw system
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Old 07-16-2020, 01:11 PM
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asking for a re-draw is really quite useless. absolutely no chance are they calling the successful people to call off their hunt so they can keep you happy. IMO the only thing that is right is for them to just issue you a tag. sure they will have more tags than intended, but that hunt is a crap shoot anyways. it can be really feast of famine depending on what the big herds are doing.
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Old 07-16-2020, 02:06 PM
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A family friend got the call yesterday too, and they offered him an extra priority point. He obviously said no, as he had a priority 14 as well. They said they’ll let him know on Friday how they are proceeding. What a travesty.

They need to re-draw and make things right. The guys that got screwed need to dig-in and write a letter to the minister. Take the tags away from the one’s that were wrongfully awarded with lower priority, regardless of their feelings, its the right thing to do. If this scenario doesn’t happen, and the letters are ignored, then legal action should be considered

Think about this for a second, those amount of priority points are a big chunk of a hunter’s career. What if some of the guys that got screwed don’t make it to next season, or they develop a disability in the mean time. All those years of waiting for a chance at having a great experience, are flushed down the toilet

What if next year, they decide to just draw strictly for cows, because the conservation goals aren’t being met? That’d make things even worse for the guys that were saving priority all those years for a bull.

To the guys that got screwed......don’t take this lightly, you owe it to yourself and other hunters who rely on the integrity of the draw system
Agreed, Albertarelm made the mistake so they gotta own it!
Also, results have just came out and the hunt is a ways away. It's not like they would be pulling tags back from guys heading down there soon if they were to redo that draw.....
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Old 07-16-2020, 02:20 PM
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Not to mention they have two weeks to get it straight before they're available for purchase. Just giving out double the tags because they made a mistake is not the answer, redraw it and get it right.
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Old 07-16-2020, 06:06 PM
KJPFISH KJPFISH is offline
 
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I finally just received the following email resonse from AlbertaRELM:
"Thank you for your e-mail. We apologize for the inconvenience you’re experiencing. I see that you have called in and the case has been escalated for an answer. We will get back to you as soon as we get the answer on what happened." I'm not holding my breath. I am now sending an email to Minister Nixon and my MLA.
I also got a call yesterday. I was told they had 23 calls to make
and he admitted that Alberta RELM messed up transferring certain Either Sex Elk priorities over to the Antlered Elk Draw - my priority 17 included. We talked around my options - extending my 17 priority to next year, selecting another wmu, the late Cypress Hills season, etc. I told him that I didn’t wait 17 years for a Cypress Hills first season tag just to have AlbertaRELM mess it up. This season worked for me and I wanted the tag I was due. I was verbally promised a Cypress Hills antlered elk tag for the first season for which I thanked him. A confirmation should arrive in few days. Unfortunately I understand that they will be just increasing the number of tags offered. I wish they would just do a re-draw to make it fully fair for everyone.
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Old 07-17-2020, 12:19 AM
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I’m surprised that some of you guys with such high Antlered elk Priorities continued to apply in the cypress hills wmu's.
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Old 07-17-2020, 12:30 AM
Full Curl Earl Full Curl Earl is offline
 
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Increasing the harvest this year will result in less tags next year, as wildlife quota management tools should.
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  #28  
Old 07-17-2020, 03:20 PM
Prewar Prewar is offline
 
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Just got off the phone with Alberta Environment. Options were to either put in for next year or get a spot in the first hunt with my priority 13. The replacement moose hunt I suggested was not accepted. As planned looks like November 02 is a go now. He thinks there may be 20 in that hunt instead of the planned 15. Some "low priority folk" ill call them, are sticking with this hunt saying they've made up their vacation schedules now ETC...

I too woulda rather seen a full redraw completed within say 36 hours of the initial draw before vacation plans were made... it is what it is. I suppose if it really is an extra 5 hunters that's not too bad. If it ends up being 30ish guys that would be disappointing...

I look forward to the hunt and hope to have a memorable adventure!!
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Old 07-20-2020, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Prewar View Post
Just got off the phone with Alberta Environment. Options were to either put in for next year or get a spot in the first hunt with my priority 13. The replacement moose hunt I suggested was not accepted. As planned looks like November 02 is a go now. He thinks there may be 20 in that hunt instead of the planned 15. Some "low priority folk" ill call them, are sticking with this hunt saying they've made up their vacation schedules now ETC...

I too woulda rather seen a full redraw completed within say 36 hours of the initial draw before vacation plans were made... it is what it is. I suppose if it really is an extra 5 hunters that's not too bad. If it ends up being 30ish guys that would be disappointing...

I look forward to the hunt and hope to have a memorable adventure!!
keep in mind you are talking about hunting 3 zones plus the park. and extra 5 or 10 guys on the hunt isnt going to make a lick of a difference on the quality of the hunt. I would be more concerned about the 300+ mule buck and 500 mule doe hunters in just WMU 118 than i would worry about the elk hunters. A full redraw is completely outlandish and has never and will never be redone unless it is a complete screw up on the draw. To expect them to screw with everyone else just to accommodate you is kind of selfish to be honest.
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Old 07-20-2020, 03:39 PM
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Increasing the harvest this year will result in less tags next year, as wildlife quota management tools should.
they wont alter it based on one years harvest numbers. they use long term hunter success rates averaged out. If they kill an extra 2 elk this year because they gave out 5 extra tags doesn't mean there will be less tags next year. Keep in mind also that they do not track the archery killed elk harvested out of the 3 surrounding zones. Unlike the rifle hunts in the park, you do not need to let them know about an archery killed elk.
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