Brooks Fisheries Meeting - April 19 7pm - Brooks Legion

[PEIslander]

The last thread got off on a bit of a tangent, so as a reminder 7pm sharp on Tuesday April 19 Brooks Fish & Game is hosting a Fisheries Open House meeting with Emeric Janssen, the Fish Bio for this area at the Brooks Legion. All are welcome to attend. If you fish in this area this is your chance to quiz the bio's about management, populations, etc.!!

- Dan

[PEIslander]

Bump.

[deschambault]

Unfortunately I can't make it tonight but please update us on what is said. I have heard through a pretty good source that there is someone very high in F&W that wants to close off all retention. To me this makes absolutely no sense, especially as the Southern reservoirs are not "natural" fisheries anyway.

[HoytCRX32]

Originally Posted by deschambault

Unfortunately I can't make it tonight but please update us on what is said. I have heard through a pretty good source that there is someone very high in F&W that wants to close off all retention. To me this makes absolutely no sense, especially as the Southern reservoirs are not "natural" fisheries anyway.

Why in God's name would anyone want to KEEP a fish? (Tongue planted firmly in cheek.)
I swear these people have never explored outside of their local Safeway

[Newellknik]

You would likely start poaching the Queens Fish tomorrow .

No licenced retention in PP 1 , Tags only.....it's genius .

Double Tax ...ouchhhhh !

Likely man made southern reservoirs can support Tags only

And in the govt s weak mind , easy to manage .

Their motto ...Revenue only , no expenditure .it was the PC s plan...

The Dips went with it . That way a person with no knowledge or experience

Could be the minister .

Newsflash ,Albertans do not own the water or the land the water is on .

Go and rail against injustice but the die is cast ....You lose ....

I can't wait for sustenance netting .

[MathewsArcher]

Originally Posted by Jet

Here are the lakes in PP1 that have been closed to retention for Pike, Walleye or both over past 2 years:

2015-2016:
Badger: Pike 3 -> 0, Walleye 3-> 0
Crawling Valley Reservoir: Pike 3->0
Eagle Lake: Pike 3 -> 0, Walleye 3->0
Jensen Reservoir: Pike 3->0, Walleye 3->0
Little Bow Reservoir: Pike 3->0 Walleye 3->1

2014->2015
Calling
Bourque

And guess what. These are all lakes that haven't had a lake assessment done for walleye or pike in the last 3 years (according to the governments own data).

This is wrong, take time out of your day, make the drive and demand change.

If they succeed in closing PP1 to retention, it will set a precedent, your zone is next.

Not sure of others but Crawling, Eagle, Jensen were all sampled in 2015, final reports probably have not been completed as of yet, but would guess the numbers showed retention could not be supported.

[MathewsArcher]

My understanding was they hoped to open Crawling to walleye retention, not sure of other waterbodies.

Call and ask which lakes they did FWIN surveys on last year or ask at the meeting. I saw the nets pulled at Crawling over a couple of days.

[McLeod]

Originally Posted by Jet

They're not in the GIS dataset they published here:
http://aep.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife/...s/default.aspx

And they were planning on closing PP1 before the 2015 sampling.

Please update us and give us your opinion on the science you hear.

[deschambault]

I have spent many summers on Crawling Valley as a seasonal camper and there were a few less pike per time fished than several years ago but we did catch and release a 16+ pounder mid summer and I am certain that you could catch 100 walleye in a day if you wanted. If you are worried about managing populations on various lakes then put them on a schedule and reduce any limit to 1 per day.

[wind drift]

Originally Posted by deschambault

I have spent many summers on Crawling Valley as a seasonal camper and there were a few less pike per time fished than several years ago but we did catch and release a 16+ pounder mid summer and I am certain that you could catch 100 walleye in a day if you wanted. If you are worried about managing populations on various lakes then put them on a schedule and reduce any limit to 1 per day.

Food for thought: who would hire a financial advisor that just told you to take $100 per day out of your RSP without asking what your goals are, and showing what the accumulated capital is, and what the expected growth rate is?

You've got to know how many fish are in the bank, how many there could be, (and should be/used to be), what the goal is, and how many can be withdrawn per year. Then you have to figure out how those withdrawals can be shared amongst the expected number of folks doing the withdrawing. Just let us take one fish per day sounds good, but it's not that simple. The job of the bios is to put all those pieces of information together. Same with deer, moose, trees, water, etc.

[deerguy]

Originally Posted by Jet

This is your chance to stand up and express your displeasure with many of the lakes within 2 hours drive of Calgary going from Limit 3 to Limit 0 for Pike, and from being allowed to keep walleye to 0.

See you there.

Originally Posted by Jet

Who else is planning on going tomorrow evening?

They have already closed off retention in most of the major lakes in PP1 this year, including some which are not threatened.

And the intention we're told is close all the lakes in PP1 to retention. It would seem this is the first trial step to closing lakes through the province to retention.

It's worth a few hours out of your day to make sure you opinions are heard, and there are no opportunities in Calgary to have your voice heard.

Originally Posted by Jet

Here are the lakes in PP1 that have been closed to retention for Pike, Walleye or both over past 2 years:

2015-2016:
Badger: Pike 3 -> 0, Walleye 3-> 0
Crawling Valley Reservoir: Pike 3->0
Eagle Lake: Pike 3 -> 0, Walleye 3->0
Jensen Reservoir: Pike 3->0, Walleye 3->0
Little Bow Reservoir: Pike 3->0 Walleye 3->1

2014->2015
Calling
Bourque

And guess what. These are all lakes that haven't had a lake assessment done for walleye or pike in the last 3 years (according to the governments own data).

This is wrong, take time out of your day, make the drive and demand change.

If they succeed in closing PP1 to retention, it will set a precedent, your zone is next.

I'm loving every minute of it baby. The faster we close these lakes to retention and go to tags only the faster the catch and keep fisherman become a thing of the past.

How did the meeting go anyways?

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by deerguy

I'm loving every minute of it baby. The faster we close these lakes to retention and go to tags only the faster the catch and keep fisherman become a thing of the past.

How did the meeting go anyways?

You cant be serious, right?

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by wind drift

Food for thought: who would hire a financial advisor that just told you to take $100 per day out of your RSP without asking what your goals are, and showing what the accumulated capital is, and what the expected growth rate is?

You've got to know how many fish are in the bank, how many there could be, (and should be/used to be), what the goal is, and how many can be withdrawn per year. Then you have to figure out how those withdrawals can be shared amongst the expected number of folks doing the withdrawing. Just let us take one fish per day sounds good, but it's not that simple. The job of the bios is to put all those pieces of information together. Same with deer, moose, trees, water, etc.

I agree.

[Newellknik]

That has put the screws to us ! I'm glad you said something Huntff .
When you agreed to buy tags you put the screws to all anglers and
Finished this resource . Closing lakes makes otherwise honest men
think about breaking the law . It's naive to think closed fisheries
Aren't being harvested . Growing fish for the Sustanance fishers
Is insane ....you will stand by while your govt gives your resource
Away , you always do .
The program's coming out of Alberta have always been
About taxing nothing to do with insuring a healthy resource .

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by Newellknik

That has put the screws to us ! I'm glad you said something Huntff .
When you agreed to buy tags you put the screws to all anglers and
Finished this resource . Closing lakes makes otherwise honest men
think about breaking the law . It's naive to think closed fisheries
Aren't being harvested . Growing fish for the Sustanance fishers
Is insane ....you will stand by while your govt gives your resource
Away , you always do .
The program's coming out of Alberta have always been
About taxing nothing to do with insuring a healthy resource .

Huh.

[mickeyjim]

I think it's pretty naïve to think that a couple guys poaching fish will collapse the fisheries in southern Alberta. I have yet to hear of the CO's grabbing a guy with a 3 ton full of fish. I'm not saying poaching is acceptable at all, I'm saying the road to healthy fisheries is not paved by increased regulation and more tickets handed out.

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[cottonwood]

Originally Posted by mickeyjim

I think it's pretty naïve to think that a couple guys poaching fish will collapse the fisheries in southern Alberta. I have yet to hear of the CO's grabbing a guy with a 3 ton full of fish. I'm not saying poaching is acceptable at all, I'm saying the road to healthy fisheries is not paved by increased regulation and more tickets handed out.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

Its called death by a thousand cuts...
Tell ya what, open a store, of any kind,,, let people continually walk out with your merchandise without paying. Let us all know how long it took for you to go out of business.
People really need to get with the program and start thinking conservation. Reading continually here from the masses that simply want to kill is getting old. These resources cant susain current liberal regulation and anyone claiming otherwise has their head up thier rear end.

[mickeyjim]

I posted some stuff about a month ago regarding the 3 jurisdictions surrounding us with similar waterbody types ( SK, MB and either Montana or north dakota can't remember). They all stock walleye. They all have way more fishing pressure. As far as I know they don't have tagging programs to keep a walleye or zero retention limits

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[stiknfish]

Originally Posted by Jet

You're not aware of the scale of the problem and you should have come to the meeting to learn more about it.

1. The fish stocks in a lake are more often lower than you think to start with, we've all become fairly effective at targeting fish at the right locations.

2. The lakes already have heavy pressure from the legal anglers

3. Some of these poachers are very good at catching and they're pretty dedicated to doing it frequently. They're also experienced in avoiding F&W and not getting caught.

4. There's a lot of them in some locations, more than you think. It wouldn't be unusual to have 10-20 people poaching at various places in the some of these lakes at one time.

5. There's also a lot of people, just keeping more than they should because they are camping in the location or have properties on the shore, and think what's the harm to keep a few extra, I won't get caught.

6. Majority of people aren't reporting it, so they don't get caught and decimate the population further and therefore do much more damage before they do get caught.

7. They can plan somewhat with inexact science for legal fishing, but the poaching they can't really plan for, particularly when it's not reported, they don't know how often it's happening.

So, the responsibility ultimately falls on you. Everytime you see it happening and fail to report you're not being nice, you're just contributing to the problem, and IMHO you're supporting poaching.

And yes, poaching does result in closures and push fisheries over the edge.

How would you know this, in particular items 3 ,4and 5 ??This sounds like a lot of hearsay. If you have seen it happen did you call it in? I believe if you had witnessed 10 -20 people poaching and you called it in there would be officers there in a heartbeat either F&W or RCMP.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by Jet

So, the responsibility ultimately falls on you. Everytime you see it happening and fail to report you're not being nice, you're just contributing to the problem, and IMHO you're supporting poaching.

Unless you aren't 100% certain that you have documented proof of poaching. In that case, you should do nothing, as you would open yourself up to criminal charges.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by Jet

Agreed. Be honest, don't make stuff up, wastes everyone's time.

Ummmm OK.

They really need a sarcasm smiley...

[mickeyjim]

Originally Posted by Jet

Your opportunity to discuss this was last night. I'm sure if you email the fisheries biologist he will tell you what he told us about this last night.

I wouldn't say SK and MB are similar to here, SK has 3 times the water, Manitoba has 5 times the water, and there's 1/4 the population in both of them. To be fair, they both have about double the active anglers than we do (guess there's less to do).

But saying they have more fishing pressure, when it's 1/6 (SK) or 1/10th (MB) of the fishing pressure of here is plain wrong. And in southern Alberta it's even worse than that, because there is a lot less water.

Sorry bud was working couldn't make it. Go east of us and see for yourself. I think the active angler thing is accurate, maybe even a bit low

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[McLeod]

Originally Posted by Jet

You're not aware of the scale of the problem and you should have come to the meeting to learn more about it.

1. The fish stocks in a lake are more often lower than you think to start with, we've all become fairly effective at targeting fish at the right locations.

2. The lakes already have heavy pressure from the legal anglers

3. Some of these poachers are very good at catching and they're pretty dedicated to doing it frequently. They're also experienced in avoiding F&W and not getting caught.

4. There's a lot of them in some locations, more than you think. It wouldn't be unusual to have 10-20 people poaching at various places in the some of these lakes at one time.

5. There's also a lot of people, just keeping more than they should because they are camping in the location or have properties on the shore, and think what's the harm to keep a few extra, I won't get caught.

6. Majority of people aren't reporting it, so they don't get caught and decimate the population further and therefore do much more damage before they do get caught.

7. They can plan somewhat with inexact science for legal fishing, but the poaching they can't really plan for, particularly when it's not reported, they don't know how often it's happening.

So, the responsibility ultimately falls on you. Everytime you see it happening and fail to report you're not being nice, you're just contributing to the problem, and IMHO you're supporting poaching.

And yes, poaching does result in closures and push fisheries over the edge.

So based on this I would say you are more accepting of the regulation changes that you were so upset about a month ago ?

[MathewsArcher]

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

Unless you aren't 100% certain that you have documented proof of poaching. In that case, you should do nothing, as you would open yourself up to criminal charges.

Suspected activities should be reported, report a poacher is also anonymous if you want it to be and you do not have to provide a name. The officer still has to investigate prior to charges.

Your statement is totally unfounded.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by MathewsArcher

Suspected activities should be reported, report a poacher is also anonymous if you want it to be and you do not have to provide a name. The officer still has to investigate prior to charges.

Your statement is totally unfounded.

It was SARCASM! (Which obviously didn't come across. See this thread for the context - http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=286417)

In my opinion any and all suspected poaching should be reported as such to the authorities. They can take it from there to investigate and lay charges as they see fit.

[Talking moose]

Isn't it ironic?

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by McLeod

So based on this I would say you are more accepting of the regulation changes that you were so upset about a month ago ?

looks like it.

edit: Which is a good thing.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by Jet

My opinion is exactly the same as yours, as discussed in that thread, with the caveat. If it's "suspected poaching", don't report it as "poaching" and say you've seen some guy fishing when he wasn't (as happened to the OP of that thread, who was just driving his boat around a lake and having breakfast (although he seemed to enjoy the extra special attention in the end)).

No, based on your comments on this issue to date, our opinions on the subject are definitely not the same.

How could you possibly know exactly how that incident was reported to the CO unless you were the one that reported it? The answer is, you don't, and nor do I.

The CO received a phone call. It could have been a general heads up about suspected poaching (which I am in full support of reporting), or it could have been a detailed accusation of poaching. We don't know. Either way, the CO responded as he saw fit and chose to investigate it further.

Originally Posted by Jet

What was clear last night was that when you tell that guy poaching, that the lake is closed and you feel good about it for educating someone and not phoning RAP, this happens:

1. F&W has less calls for that area, which means the area doesn't
get as many officers as there isn't as much of a problem, and resources
get diverted elsewhere.

2. The poaching still goes on, and lakes are closed to retention because of it:
a) Total closures
b) Night closures

I.E. When you don't call RAP, you're causing collapsed fisheries.

3. Most of these incidents, the people know what they're doing.Poaching is a big problem

If this is true, then we should all be more proactive in reporting suspected cases of poaching or illegal fishing activities.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by Jet

Cos I reported it?

Actually, I do and here's why, from the OP himself:

"I then learned someone reported us for fishing in the north end of the lake."
"I got reported for poaching"

And he tells us he wasn't fishing.

Source: http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=286417

There's no mention of "suspected" anywhere.

If he wasn't reported for poaching, then either the C/O is not being truthful or the OP isn't. Personally I'll take them at the word in absence of any further information and if the OP isn't being truthful, then this discussion is mute.

I'm not sure why you keep bringing this up, it's already been discussed on the thread involved.

I'm not sure either, as it's clear that the point being made and the connection to this thread went right over your head.

I'm done with it.

[MathewsArcher]

Originally Posted by Jet

Instead of trolling and implying I'm making this stuff up, I encourage you NOT to take my word for it.

You could have attended yesterday and hear the F&W and Biologist tell you OR you can contact the F&W and Biologist and ask them those specific questions.

So do that and then report back when you have.

Bottom line, head in the sand, watching the world go by if you care about this stuff doesn't solve a thing.

Personally I do care about poaching, because it's effecting me due to being a individual who follows the regs. And it effects all of us who do follow the regs. The only people these regulation changes hurt are us, the poachers don't care. They will continue to plunder those lakes and any recovery will either be delayed or the fishery will collapse. Also C&R at those lakes will also hurt the stock further.

I already knew this as it's pretty obvious the amount of it that goes on if you fish a few lakes and last night affirmed it. The biologists and F&W are aware of it to. But... If you don't report all instance poaching you see, well it ain't gonna get solved.

x2