Guiding in a park legal?

[Double_A_Ron]

I discovered this add on kijiji this morning, not sure how to feel about it. These lakes are hurting from over pressure already, and now there are guides from Red Deer area offering trips for $$$.

It's hard enough to find a camp site around these lakes on a weekend to take the family in. Is this even legal in a provincial park? Is Parks Alberta getting a cut to help sustain the access roads and fishery?

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-fishing-campi...ips/1152659934

Thoughts??

[TROLLER]

As a retired member of APOS I know we all had area's we were allowed to hunt and could not stray from them.

To the best of my knowledge the fish guides are not regulated in any way so they pretty well can go where they please. I would not be too concerned because most I think have a strict C&R policy.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by TROLLER

As a retired member of APOS I know we all had area's we were allowed to hunt and could not stray from them.

To the best of my knowledge the fish guides are not regulated in any way so they pretty well can go where they please. I would not be too concerned because most I think have a strict C&R policy.

Part of the ad states that fish cleaning and packaging is included so I doubt it is C&R only. Ad has been there since 2011 so I would assume that it is legal. Doubt many people would pay 300.00 a day to fish in a lake that they could fish for free anyways, or go to another more accessable lake, but you never know.

[Big Bull]

Transportation in a black Dodge dually?

[Double_A_Ron]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Part of the ad states that fish cleaning and packaging is included so I doubt it is C&R only. Ad has been there since 2011 so I would assume that it is legal. Doubt many people would pay 300.00 a day to fish in a lake that they could fish for free anyways, or go to another more accessable lake, but you never know.

The ad came up yesterday, he's just been a kijiji member since 2011.

According to the regs you're not allowed to transport game fish cleaned so I hope anyone who does get this guy as a guide don't get stopped by F&W or that's a ticket and confiscated fish. Pretty shady.

[Arctic800]

Where in the regs does it state that game fish cannot be transported cleaned?
The regs state that fish must not be skinned, cut or packed in a manner that:
- the species cannot be identified
- the number of fish cannot be determined and the total length of every fish subject to a size limit cannot be determined. Two pieces of fish equals one fish.
So...with this said, the guide could offer fish cleaning as part of the package as long as the above criteria is met. This can be found in the regs under general restrictions (cleaning and transporting fish).

[CMichaud]

Is this much different than people that rent ice shacks on public lakes?

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by Double_A_Ron

The ad came up yesterday, he's just been a kijiji member since 2011.

According to the regs you're not allowed to transport game fish cleaned so I hope anyone who does get this guy as a guide don't get stopped by F&W or that's a ticket and confiscated fish. Pretty shady.

AHHH, I missed that date thing. As for cleaning fish, I do it all the time, if I have the time. Nothing illegal about it.

[Double_A_Ron]

Originally Posted by Arctic800

Where in the regs does it state that game fish cannot be transported cleaned?
The regs state that fish must not be skinned, cut or packed in a manner that:
- the species cannot be identified
- the number of fish cannot be determined and the total length of every fish subject to a size limit cannot be determined. Two pieces of fish equals one fish.
So...with this said, the guide could offer fish cleaning as part of the package as long as the above criteria is met. This can be found in the regs under general restrictions (cleaning and transporting fish).

I've read the regs as well, and the he only way to meet those criteria is to cut out the gills and clean out the guts keeping the fish basically whole, or keep the skeletons separate and leave a patch of skin on each fillet for identification. Neither option is along the lines of cleaned for packaging man. Sounds in the description as fillets, but I'll give that's only my assumption.

[Double_A_Ron]

Originally Posted by CMichaud

Is this much different than people that rent ice shacks on public lakes?

There are no semi permanent ice fishing shacks on the lakes in the provincial park, at least I've never seen one. Other than that, the camp sites are being used to make a guide money when they are free use to anyone who brings there own gear in, not being used for personal use.

[CMichaud]

Originally Posted by Double_A_Ron

There are no semi permanent ice fishing shacks on the lakes in the provincial park, at least I've never seen one. Other than that, the camp sites are being used to make a guide money when they are free use to anyone who brings there own gear in, not being used for personal use.

OK I think I see what you are getting at.

I guess another way of thinking about is: Can a business be run out of a Provincial Campground? eg - Could I set up my 5th wheel and sell jam, wood carvings out of it all summer etc

[huntin'fool]

I believe one requires a permit from the Parks branch to operate a business within a P.P.

[Pudelpointer]

Hmmm, looked at the ad, and I don't see where it says "wall tent located in serviced Provincial Park campground." Nor do I see where it says "fishing to take place in Lakes located in provincial parks".

Sounds to me like they are accessing some hard to get to fisheries, via quad, to a remote camp site. If you have concerns, give F&W a call and see what they think. If you are certain they are guiding in the PPs, then call AB Parks.

Exactly what is accomplished by this particular thread, I have no idea.

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by Arctic800

Where in the regs does it state that game fish cannot be transported cleaned?
The regs state that fish must not be skinned, cut or packed in a manner that:
- the species cannot be identified
- the number of fish cannot be determined and the total length of every fish subject to a size limit cannot be determined. Two pieces of fish equals one fish.
So...with this said, the guide could offer fish cleaning as part of the package as long as the above criteria is met. This can be found in the regs under general restrictions (cleaning and transporting fish).

Which means you have to leave all walleye, most pike and some other fish full length depending on waters caught in so length can be determined.

Lots of people have been ticketed at Cold Lake and others because they fillet fish before driving home without realizing it breaks the law.

[Double_A_Ron]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

Hmmm, looked at the ad, and I don't see where it says "wall tent located in serviced Provincial Park campground." Nor do I see where it says "fishing to take place in Lakes located in provincial parks".

Sounds to me like they are accessing some hard to get to fisheries, via quad, to a remote camp site. If you have concerns, give F&W a call and see what they think. If you are certain they are guiding in the PPs, then call AB Parks.

Exactly what is accomplished by this particular thread, I have no idea.

If you had ever camp or fished these lakes you'd know what the thread is about. This thread is to bring awareness that this is occurring in a provincial park. Fish and wild life regular this site.

There is an atv launch area where no camping is allowed, from there you quad 4 km into the provincial park to access three of the lakes with in the park. There are up kept camping stalls at certain locations on the three lakes.

All for personal use not outfitting.

[Talking moose]

Lol, I won't say it..... Good old ..... Nvm.

[Talking moose]

Maybe do a search on this forum. The outfitter name might pop up.

[diamonddave]

lol I see he has changed his location to Stettler now!!!

[huntin'fool]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

Hmmm, looked at the ad, and I don't see where it says "wall tent located in serviced Provincial Park campground." Nor do I see where it says "fishing to take place in Lakes located in provincial parks".

Sounds to me like they are accessing some hard to get to fisheries, via quad, to a remote camp site. If you have concerns, give F&W a call and see what they think. If you are certain they are guiding in the PPs, then call AB Parks.

Exactly what is accomplished by this particular thread, I have no idea.

I believe the original kijiji ad mentioned Jackson lake, therefore Lakeland P.P.

[SushiUnagi]

Good question - guess its kind of like the Hutterites drive in to the campground area of Little Bow Provincial Park in their Dodge vans selling homemade pies and pastries.

[Sooner]

I wonder how long before a first post member comes on saying how good his booking was with said outfitter

[Opa]

Said outfitter's history may preclude his obtaining any permits that may be required to do what his ad states. One can only take one 50cm wally out of any of the lakes - Blackett, Jackson, Kinnaird, or McGuffin. That is not one wally out of each lake, but one & only one out of all combined. Pinehurst is a tag fishery and Touchwood is a C&R walleye fishery. Spencer is only open on weekends, and Siebert is another story. Could be another "interesting" story as to the raves and rants about the good times & phenomenal fishing!!!!!

[Double_A_Ron]

Originally Posted by huntin'fool

I believe the original kijiji ad mentioned Jackson lake, therefore Lakeland P.P.

Yup the ads been changed. Pictures are still of Jackson. Must not like the attention, wonder why...

[SNAPFisher]

Originally Posted by Double_A_Ron

I discovered this add on kijiji this morning, not sure how to feel about it. These lakes are hurting from over pressure already, and now there are guides from Red Deer area offering trips for $$$.

It's hard enough to find a camp site around these lakes on a weekend to take the family in. Is this even legal in a provincial park? Is Parks Alberta getting a cut to help sustain the access roads and fishery?

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-fishing-campi...ips/1152659934

Thoughts??

I do not get your beef? Are you having a hard time catching fish and need outlet to bitch for some reason? You said "...now there are guides..." So, there have been guided trips in there dating way back. As far as I know there are very few of them. Guiding for pike, walleye and perch on slightly above mediocre lakes is not exactly a booming business. You seem to be trying to "police" something but you might want to point that back inwards. There are laws in AB on harassment and slander that you are creeping up on.

[Double_A_Ron]

Originally Posted by Jet

Am I missing something here? Does he have a permit? (we don't know). Is he fishing in a Provincial Park (we don't know), how is he packaging the fish (we don't know). He's changed his address to Stettler, why? (we don't know but we think it's because he's feeling the heat, therefore must be guilty).

Seems to me that there's a lot of don't know, accusations, assumptions and people are now stalking this person.

If you're sure they're doing something illegal, then tell F&W, don't post on this forum, you'll only tip them off and compromise any investigation.

However, if you're unsure, then seems a little unfair, they could be guiding legally and you could be unnecessarily harming their business.

The add original stated Jackson lake before it was changed, which is located within a provincial park. Posting a thread questioning if the original services this guide was offering are legal is part of free speech. If there actions are legal than all that's been done is more ppl know what this outfitter is offering, free press, if not then hopefully some of the members of this forum that are F&W officers have seen the add and will start an investigation where the outfitter can prove if their actions are legal or not. This is not a court room, it's a discussion forum.

[Double_A_Ron]

Originally Posted by SNAPFisher

I do not get your beef? Are you having a hard time catching fish and need outlet to bitch for some reason? You said "...now there are guides..." So, there have been guided trips in there dating way back. As far as I know there are very few of them. Guiding for pike, walleye and perch on slightly above mediocre lakes is not exactly a booming business. You seem to be trying to "police" something but you might want to point that back inwards. There are laws in AB on harassment and slander that you are creeping up on.

I catch fish just fine, legally too FYI. I know there are guides in the area that guide on Lac La Biche, and Beaver lake, perfectly fine with those legitimate businesses performing their services. This add stated specifically Jackson lake before it was changed, which is located in the provincial park, which might have different rules like the federal parks near banff and Jasper. So I brought the add up for discussion, I didn't harrass or slander anyone. The fact that they take up a camping stall for monetary gain that could be used by a family for a weekend is still BS in my mind but that's my opinion, which I'm allowed to have.

If you have any more issues PM me and we'll sort them out personally.

[The Spruce]

Nothing illegal about this from what I can see. Don't think that 15ft Tracker would make the portage to any other of the lakes beside Jackson though. Parks will not allow that wall tent to be in place for more than 10 days I believe (this will be the main issue). Squatting is not allow in said Park.

Spruce

[The Spruce]

Oh, and you want to confuse a young warden...have some 53cm walleye fillets ziplocked and frozen....won't happen at Jackson though, not in a million years.

Spruce

[Brock1]

Nothing illegal at all. I guided walleye fisherman out of Hilliads bay provincial park for years. Stopped regularly by the high prairie f and w many times who knew me by name.

[SNAPFisher]

Originally Posted by Jet

So, I’ve done a bit of research, the research Double_A_Ron should be doing before laying unfounded accusations and others should be checking
before targeting this company. (I guess it’s easier to gossip than look at facts).

The Kijiji ad is for: Alberta Advantage Outfitters

They are a real business, not just someone posting on kijiji, and have been around for a while.

They have a Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/AlbertaAdvantageOutfitters/ and say they are Albertas one and only Resident Guide Service.

They are a member of APOS (Alberta Professional Outfitter Society). APOS is strict about legal guiding and monitors the records of
their members directly with the Alberta government.

They are also hosting the Alberta Hunters Education Course & Test.

Many have trolled this company before and they are responsive to those trolls (so I guess they haven’t seen this post yet), I’ve
sent a message to the kijiji poster altering them to this thread and asking them to chip in (he’s been quite vocal about this type
of trolling before, and has stated he is a fully legal operation).

Permits for guiding in the PP are cheap, and they don’t need the permit to advertise, only when used, so they
may not even have (or need) a permit until the first customer turns up.

These costs are typically passed onto the clients (as anyone who has been guided knows), unless they are cheap enough to be part of the business cost, which
frankly this is for a year.

It’s not in their interest to fish in the park illegally, they get permits for everything else they need, why would you assume they wouldn’t
for this? It does appear to be their first year guiding for fishing.

There’s some debate about their business practices, some hate them with a
passion, some like em, some don't think the APOS is a responsible
operation.

They’re perfectly entitled to guide on Jackson Lake with a permit, which they can easily get.

Are we done with this? If not, take it up with Alberta Advantage Outfitters directly or AB Parks.

And for reference, here’s the original cached page you were referring too:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&client=safari

Nice work Jet! I appreciate the details not that it was an issue for my anyways. I wonder if the Op might take this info the right way it should be...

Thanks again.