Anyways..... Thoughts on China!

[bessiedog]

So yea.... just got back. Saw 5 cities, travelled 1500 km by bus and bullet train.

China isn’t what you thought.

It is thoroughly modern (more modern/urbanized than us)..... both in urban AND rural areas.

They deliberately create more ‘green space’ in their urban and housing areas than any European or North American city I’ve been in. It’s hard to describe, but their parks and green spaces ‘invite use’ of the people... and the people don’t wreck the place.

The people understand that you MUST take care of your body AND mind to become and stay happy. There I was one afternoon, getting involved in a strength exercising workout with a group of 15-20 super old Chinese men. They were just hanging out in the park exercising and enjoying each other’s company.

They must come over here and be like ‘so you’re 150.... that’s cute...

The history, the artifacts, and the places that have literally survived a few millennia are simply astounding. It speaks to a cultural sense of themselves that we don’t get. I touched 600 year planted trees. 700 year old crafted mahogany furniture. I walked through palaces that have been used by rulers for 2300 years.... and the places are still intact (yes they have been favelifted in the early 2000s....)

The people are extremely deferential. This is due to their having an authoritarian system... and the government has extremely stiff penalties for anyone who abuses or harms western tourists. You want to be treated like a king.... go there now while they still have to respect us.

.... and I don’t know how long that’s going to be. They have a firmly established burgeoning middle and upper middle class that is well in their way to having a material standard of living that will rival ours here in North America. One is very very hard pressed to find a crappy vehicle driving the streets. It’s all new German or Japanese vehicles.... everywhere..... just crazy man.


There’s a saying in China... they eat everything in the sky except the plane, everything in the water except the boat, everything on land except the table.... this is very very very true.

I expanded my consumed critter repertoire by eating,

Jellyfish
Jumbo snail
Lizard
Dog
Chicken feet
Pig feet
Tiny snail
Minnows
..... it was all very very excellent.... they focus on tastes. Not amounts.


They have factories as far as the eye can see, I passed by the so called ‘ghost cuties’ ( fully created high rise mini cities that they are moving the rural population into)..... sky scrapers, overpasses and mega construction projects are absolutely everywhere. Apparently there are only two seasons in China, winter and construction season.


They have security-police- surveillance everywhere. And they are watching all the time. When we were in Tiannamen square it became obvious that not only was there a constant presence of soldiers, security, and uniformed police... but there was also many many plainclothes cops/security. When our guide started talking about the history of Tiannamen Square.... a burly plainclothes dude came up and videoed him..... he was nervous.... we were all tense after that.


People work when they’re at work.... I never saw the ‘this job owes me a living’ sense of entitlement that we have here...... kinda refreshing.


Each day.... something in that country made my jaw drop in awe..... and I am generally regarded my most as a pessimistic, cynical misanthrope....


These people will pass us in world influence and dominance. I am not cheering this fact..... just calling it like I see it.


You guys gotta go see it. The Middle Kingdom is either back.... or will be back to its ‘rightful place’ in the near future.

If the world buys into the new ‘Belt and Road’ initiative..... they will win.

[masalma]

You had me at DOG

sounds like an awesome experience, I do business consulting as a side business for new startups and one of my clients is pushing me to go next month to China to meet with all their suppliers for two weeks. I am trying to pull out of the trip because of the travel time and missed work here but now I am thinking it could be a good trip.

[covey ridge]

Very interesting read! I will save and read again
Thanks

[Fish along]

Very interesting,I always thought that Asians have eaten everything that creeps or crawls,and your thoughts on the middle kingdom wow.

[ÜberFly]

Yup full disregard for the environment and human rights!! Let’s continue to support them!! 👍 (sarcasm)

[bessiedog]

Agreed.... their human rights record is abysmal. One really should question buying made in China stuff and indirectly supporting such a system....

I do openly wonder how many people would trade rights for better standard of living...
History shows that people readily squander rights when this choice comes up.


It’s very obvious that their pace of environmental damage will catch up with them very very soon ( I hope ‘them’ doesn’t actually include us... it it probably does).

I’m betting they go whole hog on solar or some other tech when it becomes viable. I wonder if they are all over this new stable fusion energy tech that’s been just developed.



( ever check where your fly gear is built?)

[barsik]

while most of us appreciate your initial impression of China, keep in mind that tourists get to see what the government wants them to see. China has one of the worst human rights records on the planet. Tiananmen square? thousands of people were killed by the army when the government cracked down on people demonstrating for human rights and democracy in the late 80's I think. the blood has been washed away many years ago and no one says anything, even when they know what the truth is. China is now ruled by a dictator who has proclaimed himself ruler for life. the people may be very friendly, polite, and humble, but the bureaucracy needs a flushing. come to think of it, the bureaucracy here needs a flushing too.

[Freedom55]

At the same time, their cheques are good.

[bessiedog]

Nope
Their authoritarian nature is certainly not lost on me. I think I used the word authoritarian in my post and I commented on the omnipresent state.

Not condoning their govt at all. I teach history so I’m very aware that I was walking on the exact ground where a massacre occurred.

What you see there could be readily comparable to the advancements that Hitler did to Germany during his initial assent to power.

Time will tell.

Does it make what they’ve accomplished less impressive... perhaps. I’ll leave that up to you. You should check it out.

[kingrat]

Roughly all in how much did it cost you and how many days etc.

[lmtada]

Was in Beijing/Shanghai 1990-91. Was impressed with large streets. There were few foreigners. Learned to play proficiency at table tennis (was at every school yard against school, similar to basketball courts). People were friendly. Hard to distinguish one from the other in a crowd (lol). Drank tea daily. I was sick for a few weeks from coal dust. The doctors treated me fine. The Chinese women seemed like little girls at the time. A 20-25 year old Chinese women seemed like she was 15-16. How was the spicey food?? BessieDog Sounds like a good trip. Congrats.

[grouse_hunter]

Great story! Thank you for sharing. Definitely on my "to visit" list. Did you try soup dumplings?

[omega50]

On my list. I was a chef in a mostly Chinese staffed kitchen for 7 years. I speak basic Cantonese and have great interest in a trip there someday

[bessiedog]

Soup dumplings

A Shanghai speciality! Big ass dumpling.... stick a straw in it.... soup with meat bits inside. Fantastic!
I got a micky of village made hooch.... flavored with jasmine and lotus flowers I think....starts off nice... then mule kicks ya.

Price for our crew was 3500 all in, flights, guide, transportation, site tix, and three very good restaraunt meals per day. 10 days.

Ya can’t beat that.
I also had to put in 100 to 150 hours of organizing and fundraising.

Got 3 hours of sleep per night..... cause ya can’t sleep when supervising highschool kids.

Spiced cuttlefish on a stick or spiced octopus on a stick is nice to chew on while you take in the sights.

I’m jet lagging bad.

I really really really need some time alone in the Bush..... or on a lake ice fishin.

[Scott h]

Very interesting read and thanks for taking the time. I've always believed that time and money spent on traveling is very well spent.

[Ken07AOVette]

That was extremely interesting, thank you so much for sharing!

[bessiedog]

I strongly believe that the more one travels, the more we find common ground.

Never ever force diversity on someone, people need to try diversity on their own terms.

I have found that in both good and people, diversity has always been a plus.


Re: spicy food.... they really toned it down for us... but if you wanna spice.... they spice man.

[Newview01]

Until China becomes a free country there is nothing we should admire about it. They may have accomplished much, but at what cost, and at what ongoing costs?

I can appreciate that it is interesting to visit, but as a country they do not deserve any respect as long as overt diversity of opinion is outlawed and punished.

China is not a country we should be trying to find common ground with.

Trudeau admired China's basic dictatorship as a means by which they have been able to accomplish so much. That pretty much sums up my point.

[bessiedog]

[lmtada]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

I strongly believe that the more one travels, the more we find common ground.

Never ever force diversity on someone, people need to try diversity on their own terms.

I have found that in both good and people, diversity has always been a plus.


Re: spicy food.... they really toned it down for us... but if you wanna spice.... they spice man.

Hijack your thread BessieDog. “Why you should visit China”.

https://youtu.be/5yFUI_FvJOc

[bessiedog]

NewView, You need enlightenment ..... lots and lots of it.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

NewView, You need enlightenment ..... lots and lots of it.

I won't disagree, there is a lot that I need to learn.

I will not comment further on this thread as I have nothing good to say on this.

[2 Tollers]

Bessie thanks for putting up all the information on your trip. Very interesting read and China is on our travel list. The observations on the work ethic is interesting. I wonder if this will continue in the future as more affluence arrives to the mid and lower classes.

You are absolutely correct in that the more people travel, see and understand different countries the more open the majority of them become in looking at the world and themselves.

We have seen and experienced very poor third world areas where people are extremely happy and they certainly are not even close in terms of what we have for what we consider to be the basic necessities.

Thanks again for putting the narrative up.

[roper1]

Excellent post, Bessie. The growth of their middle class affects us more than we know, most of it positive. The one-child male-preferred culture is amazing to watch unfold as well. Keep up the thoughts as they occur, enjoy the read. Thank you!!

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Nope
Their authoritarian nature is certainly not lost on me. I think I used the word authoritarian in my post and I commented on the omnipresent state.

Not condoning their govt at all. I teach history so I’m very aware that I was walking on the exact ground where a massacre occurred.

What you see there could be readily comparable to the advancements that Hitler did to Germany during his initial assent to power.

Time will tell.

Does it make what they’ve accomplished less impressive... perhaps. I’ll leave that up to you. You should check it out.

"Harmonious Society" is what they say. Sounds nice, but what it means is that if you are not harmonious with what the leaders say society will be, they remove you from society.

I taught and consulted in Beijing/ShenYang off and on 2003-2013. I don't prefer their version of "harmonious society".

[sgill808]

Great read Bessie!

But I can't help but ask.. how is cheering for the Oilers taking care of your mind?

[ak-71]

Worked in Beijing for half a year in 2009-2010, wasn't impressed with rural areas at all though - either they made some stunning progress, or you you got lucky with rural areas you visited. Even some less touristy parts of Beijing weren't very impressive.

[Mr Flyguy]

Too much smog in Beijing for my liking.

At business dinners be careful about all the toasting and associated drinking!

And for God's sake, don't eat anything in the business class lounge at the airport, thought I was going to die on the plane back to Vancouver.

Otherwise, yes, great country to visit.

[Dynamic]

I’ve had a fortunate opportunity to do some travelling in the past few years. As a whole Canada is a great country and the only one I want to call home, we have much to learn about the human experience and what it means to be truly happy and how to get there.

[antlercarver]

I think we could take lessons from them on how to take care of criminals. Our B&E artists, car thieves, drug pushers which are killing several people each day should be very thankful they are here not over there.