45/70 effective range

[rena0040]

I was wondering if any of you who shoot big lever guns could tell me what thier effective range would be with a scope for big game, 200-250?
I don't have a lever gun in the cabinet yet and was thinking of a stainless marlin guide gun in 45/70.

[catnthehat]

No experience witth the levers, but with a single shot falling block and irons I can effectivly hunt to 150 yards .
maybe PM win94, he has lots of experience in this department.
Cat

[Rusty P. Bucket]

I shoot the Guide Gun (with a Leupold VX III 1.5 -5X) which is a shorty carbine and I personally wouldn't push it past 100~150. To get any kind of trajectory from the carbine I have to handload it to levels where the gun kills on both ends, and reduces me to a flinching idiot.

I think if a guy really wants a long range gun for hunting the 45-70 isn't it. Many people want to turn such guns into something they aren't. 200 yards is a long shot for the little guns.

[Win94]

What Cat said. 150 yards for my Guidegun is my limit with a 2.5x fixed power scope. However with a Ruger # 1 and the 22" barrel i know 250 yards would be cake with a fixed 4 power and some load development. Go to marlinowners.com for any guidegun questions. Best site on the net for the topic!!! Get a Guidegun you won't be disappointed.

[rena0040]

i guess i over estimated them i thought 200-250 but sounds like the 150 mark is about it

[Win94]

Just to add, in the last 5 years i haven't had a longer shot than 100 yards for my game as of late.

[Canuck44]

I run 350 gr hornady flat nose bullets in my guide gun at just over 2000 fps and if sighted 4" high at 100 it is 4" low at 200 yrds, at 250 it is 12" low and 300 27" low. I have never shot it past 200 yrds but thats what the calculator shows. I shoot it with a 2-7 leupold and would be comfortable shooting something at 200 yrds if I had a good shooting position, 250 would be aim for the top of the shoulder on a deer but lots of room for error and potential for a wounded deer if doing that.

300 grainers at 2400fps would give you 4" +/- trajectory to 240 yrds, the problem with loads like this is they kick like a mule and a short light gun like the marlin gg tends to jump around for me.

The best bet is to buy one and practise with it to see what works for you. You won't regret having one of these in the cabinet.

[John Spartan]

For hunting purposes - 150-200 yards depending on the shooter and what kind of loads are being used.
For long range shooting, not hunting - up to 1000 yards for some black powder silhouette shoots.

[buckfever]

i cant remember what show it was but they had one on wildtv last night the took a mule deer at 250 yard i think...

[rena0040]

what would i compare the kick of the heavy loads to?
The hardest hitting thing i have in my inventory now is when i put the 14" barrel on my 870 and shoot 3" magnum slugs. Next would be a tie between my 30-06 and 7 rm.

[4570]

I run 350 gr hornady flat nose bullets in my guide gun at just over 2000 fps and if sighted 4" high at 100 it is 4" low at 200 yrds, at 250 it is 12" low and 300 27" low.

This is from a load table or actual experience at the range?
I also have a guide gun and load the same bullets.

Do try some 405 grain cast bullets and a light load of trail boss powder.
http://www.imrpowder.com/data/rifle/...ss-oct2005.php

Set up a gong at 100 yards.
Stand up and shoot offhand some 405 grain cast bullets and trail boss powder.
Ping, ping, ping...
The short mag guys will be coming over for a look.
Way more fun

[The Moose Whisperer]

I've never shot anything past about 100yds with this baby (Marlin 1895GS in .45-70), but I wouldn't hesitate out to 200yds on anything with antlers. Pardon the gratuitous pick, but I just learned how to post them for the "my favourite gun" thread

[uraarchr]

try the new lever-evolution ammo by hornady.very flat shooting compared to the other stuff in canada.i havent taken anything w it yet but the numbers say its good for 200 -250 (dependent on shooterr).everyone is into hyper mags nowdays and they downtalk the 30-30 and 45-70 but i have never seen a more impressive knockdown than a muley w my 30-30.ive never gotten into a 300 or 338 because i like to shoot something i can handle,the 45-70 is easy to shoot in fact load.lev-ev hornadys have some snap to them but still very manageable.anyways #6.suka knows.

[Canuck44]

Originally Posted by 4570

I run 350 gr hornady flat nose bullets in my guide gun at just over 2000 fps and if sighted 4" high at 100 it is 4" low at 200 yrds, at 250 it is 12" low and 300 27" low.

This is from a load table or actual experience at the range?
I also have a guide gun and load the same bullets.

Do try some 405 grain cast bullets and a light load of trail boss powder.
http://www.imrpowder.com/data/rifle/...ss-oct2005.php

Set up a gong at 100 yards.
Stand up and shoot offhand some 405 grain cast bullets and trail boss powder.
Ping, ping, ping...
The short mag guys will be coming over for a look.
Way more fun

The 350 gr hornady fn loads I am using are with 48 gr imr 4198, I figure that this is good for 2000 +/- fps out of my guide gun as the 47gr load is rated at 2032 fps out of a longer barrel. The 100-200yrd info is my recollection from being at the range. The 250-300 yrd info is from a ballistic calculator based on 2000 fps muzzle velocity, no experiance shooting this gun beyond the 200 yrd point. How have you found yours to be?

I have also been loading the 405 cast with 30 gr IMR 4198 and they work pretty good for plinking at the 1300-1400 fps range and I sure like the reduced cost and recoil. I will have to try the trail boss powder as 12 grs/ shell would sure make the powder last longer.

Heres another gratuitous pic since someone else put one up...

[sinawalli]

I use 405 grain hard cast bullets with 49 grains of RL7, and am getting just shy of 2000 fps. Yes, it kicks, put it isn't that bad! Have no problem shooting 2-3 boxes at the range!

[catnthehat]

IMO the trajectory is too danged high and the normal rifle is too danged light and short to call them anything but a 150 yard carbine!

Yes, it can be done if one has time to range the animal, get set up prone on a good rest for the rig, and take your time, but the cartridge/rifle combination is just not conducive to consistant accuracy at the those ranges.
The guide gun,N0.3 Ruger, H&R handi rifle , are set up for light carying and shots up close in cover, etc.
They are not designed top shoot past the 150 yard mark, where one does not have to hold over more thann shoulder height to make Maximum POI.
It could and can be done I guess, but on average I'll bet that most users would pass on the shot - or miss at 200 yard in a hunting situation .
Cat

[Rusty P. Bucket]

That has been my experience too, Cat. Even 150 is pushing it with the guide gun. Paddy-cake loads off the bench are one thing, but full power loads shooting from your hind feet?

Pass.

Keep the shots close, put the bullet where it counts and do it with one shot. That is what the game is all about.

[ROA]

With 350g Hornady Flatnose at 2000fps and a range finder 250yards is doable on MOOSE sized game. I came to this conclusion by actually shooting the rifle in the bush to find my limit with it.

Currently I have 405g loaded up to about 1600fps. Just based on ignorance with this load having not shot it much I don't think I would be taking any 150yard shots.


My guide gun requires more practice to hit well in the field than any other rifle I own and it is not all due to the trajectory, it's just hard to shoot well.

[Canuck44]

Originally Posted by Rusty P. Bucket

That has been my experience too, Cat. Even 150 is pushing it with the guide gun. Paddy-cake loads off the bench are one thing, but full power loads shooting from your hind feet?

Pass.

Keep the shots close, put the bullet where it counts and do it with one shot. That is what the game is all about.

I wouldn't be taking 200 yrd shots at anything from a standing position without a rest. From a fence post, sitting, bipod or prone would be tempting though but past 100yrds I pretty much need to be in one of these positions for accurate shooting, even at 100 yrds I try to get into one of these if time allows.

[sbtennex]

Mine's an XLR - 24" bbl, L'Evolution flattened my bull moose this past fall at a hair under 200 yards no problem, down in his tracks. Now I shoot 350 RN'ers at around 2200 fps. Heavy recoil, but trajectory is about the same as with the 325 gr L'Evolution. I'd shoot to 250 with it, because I know the "arc" and the power is amazing. Very accurate with ANY load I've ever stuffed in it and the heavy loads don't seem to bother the action at all - just the shooter once in a while. (I do use a 2 3/4 fixed Redfield scope and I've been "scoped" once in a while! 55 or more ft/lbs recoil).

My first year out with the .444 Marlin, I took this small bull at 63 yards. a Very effective one shot kill at that range. But I consistently hit the 250 yard gone at our shooting range. I personally like the .444 over the 45/70 due to lower recoil and IMHO nearly matched downrange effectiveness,

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

My first year out with the .444 Marlin, I took this small bull at 63 yards. a Very effective one shot kill at that range. But I consistently hit the 250 yard gone at our shooting range. I personally like the .444 over the 45/70 due to lower recoil and IMHO nearly matched downrange effectiveness,

That is a great looking "eater", gitrdun!
Cat

[Win94]

Yvan i think your right when it comes to the triple 4 vs the .45-70 Its pretty much splitting hairs. They are both big boomers that will drop anything in North America. I have owned both and like em equally.

[Pioneer2]

Anyone buy a 45-70 with the impression it wouldn't kick ?I find the triple 4 very user freindly and would only use Hornady 256gr in that one,not the 44 mag pistol bullets Partitions excepted.My 14 year old rattled off half a box of the Fed 300gr loads in a 45-70 guide gun no problem and actually hit what he was shooting at.He is about 80lbs soaking wet and would have shot off the rest of the box had I let him.Recoil is 90% perception IMO If you grit your teeth in anticipation it will kick you.Relax and embrace the recoil[roll with it] It's suposed to be fun..........The 45-70 wiped out a lot of bision at ranges far exceeding 200 yards loaded at at only 1200fps.But it's good for a man to know his limits..........Harold

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Pioneer2

Anyone buy a 45-70 with the impression it wouldn't kick ?I find the triple 4 very user freindly and would only use Hornady 256gr in that one,not the 44 mag pistol bullets Partitions excepted.My 14 year old rattled off half a box of the Fed 300gr loads in a 45-70 guide gun no problem and actually hit what he was shooting at.He is about 80lbs soaking wet and would have shot off the rest of the box had I let him.Recoil is 90% perception IMO If you grit your teeth in anticipation it will kick you.Relax and embrace the recoil[roll with it] It's suposed to be fun..........The 45-70 wiped out a lot of bision at ranges far exceeding 200 yards loaded at at only 1200fps.But it's good for a man to know his limits..........Harold

The recoil and pressures of 45.70 factory loads is nothing compared to what the cartridge is capable however.
The 47/70 can be loaded to quite a higher than the factory stuff if you are shooting a falling block Browning, Ruger, or similar rifle...
Cat

[hornhead]

i have a #3 in 45/70. you can load these up to almost 458 win velocities if you're into pain for gain. (i have) ... don't try it if you wear dentures
but it does flatten the trajectory and anything in front of it.
nasty little rifle at both ends cuz all i have on it is a williams receiver sight.
i agree with the 150 yard max statement.i'm sticking with factory 300 grainers and it's quite acceptable and very accurate. i had catnthehat put a recoil pad on it.
a nice rifle and a good woods cartridge. i never see any game anyway so i prefer a light rifle.
it's my belief that at the old "buffler hunters" were herd shooting at the long ranges they took buffalo at... you would certainly need a tang sight for extended ranges or a good mil dot type scope for compensation.

[Pioneer2]

I believe the original post asked about "lever action 45-70 range limitations"? Not loading up your fallinglblock to .458 Win mag velocities and getting your molars loosened?They used Sharpes rifles in various calibers including 45-70 for long range bison shooting highly unlikely lobbing lead into a mass herd.Harold

[pogo]

I always thought the 45-70 gave a bit of a "love tap" down range...

[hornhead]

apologies... i didn't realize i was hijacking the post.