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  #31  
Old 10-24-2010, 08:13 PM
Mxyzptik Mxyzptik is offline
 
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Question It happened to us " I think "

Many years ago when my 700 BDL left hand bolt was new ( late 70's) I was hunting with my brother. We were sitting around the fire and he asked to look at it. He was messing around with it and I was looking way when all of a sudden BOOM, it scared the absolute snot out of both of us.

He swore he never had his finger anywhere near the trigger. There was no harm no foul because of course as always the muzzle was under control and not pointed towards anyone. Even though he protested he never touched the trigger I attributed it to the awkwardness of a right hander operating a left hand bolt. I mean I know how clumsy I always feel when I pick up a right handed gun, but he insisted repeatedly that he never touched the trigger and he is a very careful man.

I never tried to duplicate it because I was sure he must have accidentally touched it off. I have never had a problem since but now I am wondering ?
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  #32  
Old 10-24-2010, 08:26 PM
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220swifty 220swifty is offline
 
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Any time I watch someone i dont know speak about rifles, i take note of how they handle said guns. I am watching this program right now, and the reporter started the show with a M700 in one hand. He held it akwardly as hell and had his finger on the trigger the whole time. He lost my trust right there, but i am still watching out of interest.


Listening to a major network speak about technical gun issues is like letting a six year old tell you how to drive.
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  #33  
Old 10-25-2010, 07:04 AM
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MK2750 MK2750 is offline
 
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My son uses a M700 so yesterday we load up a truck load of guns and dogs and head to the bush to do some grousing/shooting.

Because I just sold a couple 06s I have a surplus of ammo. I was determined to see if I could make that rifle do something unsafe.......it was no problem.

I couldn't get it to fire with the safety but it was easy to get it not to fire with the safety off.

I simply pushed slightly on the side of the trigger ( to the right on a left handed gun) and pulled. The gun would not fire and the trigger was stiff like in safety on position. You didn't have to hold the trigger to the right, just push it and then pull the trigger-even several minutes later.

You are left holding a gun that will now fire if you do one of three things.

1 Try to move the safety.

2 Tap on the bolt.

3 Push the trigger on the on the right side back to the left.

I believe this is exactly how they got the sniper rifle to fire by touching the bolt in the doc.

Another thing that was every bit as disturbing was after a left push on the trigger. The trigger went to a very light pull-I would guess under a pound.

I do know now why snipers like the light trigger. I fired the best 3 shot group of my life after pushing this thing to the left.

Without wiggling or pushing the trigger the gun worked flawlessly.

The trigger was adjusted to 3.5 lbs ( this was not an option it came factory at like 10 lbs) by a good smith with many years of Remington experience and like I said it breaks perfectly if you don't screw with it before firing.

So the questions remains why would you be screwing with your trigger back and forth before firing and what are the chances of my son doing this while handling this gun?

We will have to let someone else answer that as there will be a new trigger installed before this thing does any more shooting.
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  #34  
Old 10-25-2010, 10:05 AM
NBScott NBScott is offline
 
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I handled a brand new Rem 700 in 30-06 bone collector edition, last week. A friend had it discharge twice while attempting to unload the rifle on separate ocasions. Once the rifle was loaded and the safety put on the gun would fire ocassionally when you would move the safety to the off position. This was a brand new gun. Abuse or lack of cleaning were not issues here. I was amazed at how easily I could replicate the accidental discharge by switching the safety off. This may not occur in every 700 model rifle but it is definately occuring in some.
I also think that it is very unfair of anyone who has not watched the show to judge the mother who "shot" her son. You bunch of armchair quarterbacks should be ashamed of yourselves.
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  #35  
Old 10-25-2010, 10:13 AM
bigoldan43 bigoldan43 is offline
 
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I talked to that gunsmith in Nanton and he said he has about 2 a year that come in with that complaint. Usually dirty and old grease. Had one they attributed to wet snowy conditions and then ice build up.
He recommends aside from normal safe handline use, a clean well oiled mechanism, and if it bothers you that it might happen, aftermarket trigger.
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  #36  
Old 10-25-2010, 11:36 AM
CanuckWR CanuckWR is offline
 
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If you can refrain from pointing a loaded weapon at others you have a much lesser chance of shooting them. Its also very difficult to have an accidental discharge if you dont have a round in the chamber until you need to use it. This system works pretty good for me, and I have never found the 700 too slow to chamber a round when I need it...

Perhaps I am not sympathetic to this unfortunate family, but I am sure my practices will prevent me from accidentally killing anyone I care about.
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  #37  
Old 10-25-2010, 12:16 PM
JBelk JBelk is offline
 
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MK2750-- The symptoms exhibited by your M700 indicates the top surface of the connector or bottom of the sear or both were buffed. That is a SERIOUS no-no. I'd suggest changing triggers.
Even if it hasn't been around a buffer, the light pull means a sloppy or 'bad' sear over-lap.
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  #38  
Old 10-25-2010, 02:38 PM
bigoldan43 bigoldan43 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckWR View Post
If you can refrain from pointing a loaded weapon at others you have a much lesser chance of shooting them. Its also very difficult to have an accidental discharge if you dont have a round in the chamber until you need to use it. This system works pretty good for me, and I have never found the 700 too slow to chamber a round when I need it...

Perhaps I am not sympathetic to this unfortunate family, but I am sure my practices will prevent me from accidentally killing anyone I care about.
The problem is when you close the bolt on the round the gun goes off.

Yes, the barrel should be pointed in a safe direction.

However your system of not having a round in the chamber until you need it is a moot point here, because sooner or later you will put a round in the chamber. The point of the discussion is you don't get to choose when the round is fired, it just happens. Close the bolt and BANG!
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  #39  
Old 10-25-2010, 02:42 PM
Hornaholic Hornaholic is offline
 
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Default Remminton 700

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Originally Posted by Sask Hunter View Post
Ok guys this is really serious. I just watched a 1 hour CNBC report on the Remington 700 called "Remington Under Fire" the program claims that the 700 trigger (not the x-mark trigger) has the potential to go off with only the touch of the bolt or by simply taking the safety off.

Documents suggest they knew about it for 50 years and have chosen not to fix it due to cost. Even the old man who originally designed the thing says he tried to get them to fix it, even after he retired. Remington's own documents show that they know there are 10s of thousands of these 700s that have the potential for this problem

A kid was killed in Montana. His Mom was holding the rifle.

There is film showing a police demonstration of the problem. I watched it myself. the guy cycles the bolt, touches the safety or taps the bolt handle, and it goes off. This is real, not the suspicious hearsay of someone who claims "it just went off"

Google this and keep your kids safe.

Has anyone else heard a different side of this?
I had a 7mm STW in a model 700 & it was about 7 years ago i was sitting on a brush pile on a push, the weather was about -25 or -30 deg. & all i did was pull the gun up to my sholder & it went off!!!!! Never had a intrest in them since
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  #40  
Old 10-25-2010, 04:32 PM
CanuckWR CanuckWR is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigoldan43 View Post
The problem is when you close the bolt on the round the gun goes off.

Yes, the barrel should be pointed in a safe direction.

However your system of not having a round in the chamber until you need it is a moot point here, because sooner or later you will put a round in the chamber. The point of the discussion is you don't get to choose when the round is fired, it just happens. Close the bolt and BANG!
Fair enough, I was more under the impression that the round fired when safety was disengaged.

Wont stop me from lovin my 700.
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  #41  
Old 10-25-2010, 06:26 PM
32-40win 32-40win is offline
 
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A safety is a mechanical device, it can malfunction, like any other mechanical device. There is very likely a lot of truth in the evidence shown on the program.
NBC has to be able to prove the claims on something that prominent in the USA.
And here we have two instances being described here on this forum.
It doesn't surprise me, I've never had it happen, and have owned 700's since 1985. I've bounced them down a slope, ran over them, had them bashed against a tree by horses, never a problem.
But, by the same token, I don't put a round in the chamber unless I intend to shoot at something, not very likely to have an accident that way.
Remington's complete denial of the problem doesn't surprise me ,either.

Remington is a corporation, it will deny it of course, NBC wants to make ratings.
This one will either wind up in court or in a recall , or both.
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  #42  
Old 10-26-2010, 12:52 PM
bullrambler bullrambler is offline
 
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Default Remington 700 Unsafe says CNBC

I've never really been a Remi fan. Owned a 223 CDL and it wasn't as accurate as I would have liked it to be. It got traded for a varmit 223 from another brand and tghe new rifle shoots like a dream.

However, in relation to the subject at hand. If I were to find a Remi that I really wanted I would have the necessary changes made to render it a safely operating gun. As I'm sure most of us have no need to shoot ourselves or others in the foot.
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  #43  
Old 10-26-2010, 03:01 PM
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fordtruckin fordtruckin is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckWR View Post
Perhaps I am not sympathetic to this unfortunate family, but I am sure my practices will prevent me from accidentally killing anyone I care about.
I totally agree. even with a faulty rifle, you can do your part to minimize injury to others or yourself. In my opinion its as much their fault as it is the rifles.
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  #44  
Old 11-04-2010, 12:27 PM
Rooster777 Rooster777 is offline
 
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Default Happened To Me

Happened to me a few years back. I was cycling the shells to clear the spring magazine so that I would not drop the shells in the snow in the dark with cold hands. Why I was closing the bolt was a stupid error on my part. It went off on about the 3rd shell. It was pointed in a safe direction, but significantly hurt my hand as the bolt slammed into the tip of my thumb as I was loosely holding the rifle....Not to mention it scared me real bad.

I cycled the bolt a few hundred times after that and could not duplicate it firing. Even in cold conditions. In any case. Proper gun handling safety is key and I was taught to never have one in the chamber. "if you don't have time to cycle the bolt, then you shouldn't be shooting anyway" as my Dad would say.

I love my Remington 700!
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  #45  
Old 11-04-2010, 03:59 PM
yukon300RUM yukon300RUM is offline
 
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i have a new .300RUM with the X Mark pro trigger, and if i understand this correctly, CNBC is reporting that it is models prior to the 2007 release of the X mark that "may fire" inadvertently, not the newer models. After watching the program and the Remington Response posted above, it's hard to say one way or another. I have hunted with Remmy's for years (they are 1980's vintage) and never seen this, in fact the new rum is the first one i've shot with the new trigger, and it has no problems so far...touch wood. If you have a new one with the Xmark trigger, it should be impervious to the problem stated in the CNBC report, as the new trigger has gone away from the floating mechanism that "may" become clogged with debris and has new plungers and mechanical stoppers to prevent the problem.
A few years ago, I was at the range with a friend who had a .22 revolver. it had a light "competition altered" trigger. I loaded the gun and as i was raising it to shoot, it discharged mere inches from my right foot. At the time, i thought there was no way i was near the trigger, but as time passed, the more i thought about it, the more i think i inadvertently had my finger on the trigger causing the firing. I was concentrating down range already, and i may not have been aware of my finger travelling naturally to the place it is comfortable, or used to being. In the moment, however, i was sure i was on the outside of the trigger gaurd. If you threw me in front of a judge, i probably would have said i was not on the trigger, and if you added the pressure of just shooting another person accidentally.... Who knows. Don't even want to think of shooting someone, accidentally or otherwise. But if i was so convinced in the moment it was not me, I would have to think i would have been hard pressed not to blame the gun. Years of reflection later, I'm not so sure.
At any rate, i feel that proper gun safety with all firearms is the most important step. I'm not sold on sensationalist reports, and after seeing some of the firearms in the report involved in the shootings, they are in bad, bad shape and are obviously not maintained. In testing after the fact by both sides, they could not get the guns to fire inadvertently. Also, the credibility of the witnesses are iffy.... and the states are litigation happy. I'm sure the truth lies somewhere inbetween. But if you have a remmy with the new trigger and you have an inadvertent fire, I would say that its a different problem, as it appears the new trigger is an entirely different system.
I'll keep my eye on my Remmy, and the old ones, but I for one am not going to get rid of it any time soon.
Safe shooting all, and be careful....
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  #46  
Old 11-04-2010, 04:16 PM
Echo_37 Echo_37 is offline
 
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Default 710 failure

I had this happen with my rifle (a remington 710) this fall at the range. I bought it in 2005 and other than the sloppy action it was a good first rifle for the price, shot a lot of deer with it. Anyhow, i put abought 3 rounds through it and went to pull the trigger and it would not pull. i was alone at the range but kept it pointed down range and as soon as i lifted the bolt a hair it went off. its a 7mm rem mag and i was not expecting it fire and almost dropped it. I ran some once fired brass though it and could not make it happen again. Fired about 5 more live rounds through it no problem, but i no longer trust this rifle and don't think I'll use it for anymore.

I upgraded to a 300 WM (a remingtopn 700 this time) and am going after my first moose tomorrow.

So anyone looking for a 7mm... JK.
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  #47  
Old 11-04-2010, 04:28 PM
yukon300RUM yukon300RUM is offline
 
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the 710 uses the old trigger.....not the xmark....
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  #48  
Old 11-04-2010, 05:14 PM
Sneeze Sneeze is offline
 
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A friend purchased a used 30-06 Rem 700 from Wholesale sports a while back. It almost took my head off one day elk hunting. I watched him handling it when it went off. All he did was flick off the safety. No finger entered the trigger guard.

Wholesale took it back, the funny part was we saw the same gun for sale at a gun show the next year. Its an unmistakeable Remington 700, 30-06 with a chip in the butt of the stock and a muzzle break. Some of you may have seen it before! One day its going to kill somebody but no vendor is willing to loose the money on destroying it.
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  #49  
Old 11-04-2010, 09:49 PM
johnschmidt johnschmidt is offline
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i own a 700 rem i've used it for years i adjusted the trigger myself and loved it but this spring i took it in to get it re-barreled and the gunsmith screwed with my trigger and when i got it back i went to the gunrange and after a couple of shots i could not even close the bolt without it going off so i went home and took it apart and saw somebody had been into it (he put that yellow paint on the screws) so i re-adjusted it and i've been using it ever since without any problems
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  #50  
Old 11-05-2010, 02:15 AM
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I wouldn't buy one for my kids, and if I had one I would change the trigger. Easy fix. I have pulled new guns apart to find plastic shavings from stocks all stuck in the trigger. A good cleaning for all guns. The only gun I have seen do this was a new Winchester 70 push feed. It did it once when the safety was pushed off. Never did it again...I think.
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  #51  
Old 11-05-2010, 07:09 AM
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Unfortunately I hadn't seen the show, but how does this all relate to "Muzzle Control?"
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  #52  
Old 11-05-2010, 10:04 AM
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220swifty 220swifty is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneeze View Post
A friend purchased a used 30-06 Rem 700 from Wholesale sports a while back. It almost took my head off one day elk hunting. I watched him handling it when it went off. All he did was flick off the safety. No finger entered the trigger guard.

Wholesale took it back, the funny part was we saw the same gun for sale at a gun show the next year. Its an unmistakeable Remington 700, 30-06 with a chip in the butt of the stock and a muzzle break. Some of you may have seen it before! One day its going to kill somebody but no vendor is willing to loose the money on destroying it.
Any chance that any of these dealers may have taken the time to properly clean, and or changed out the trigger.............
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  #53  
Old 11-05-2010, 02:46 PM
Lonnie Lonnie is offline
 
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any gun that will fire with out touching the trigger is real dangerous, as it only takes one little mistake to have deadly accident and if a person new of this problem prior to having an accident it is not an accident just stupid and should be held accountable. the same as a company that manufactures faulty equipment should be held accountable. as for people that say it is because they did not follow proper safety rules, are a huge part of the problem.as it seems to justify using faulty equipment.rather than fixing the problem.but I do agree a lot of accidents are avoidable if proper safety rules used, and number 1 rule is that all your equipment is in proper working order no excuses on that one.
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