Transporting guns *****

[nikitasey]

Long story kind of....

My boyfriends family (2 grandfathers) has passed down all of there guns to him, we live in Calgary, the guns are in Cape Breton NS. He does not have his firearms license right now but we are both booked to get it the end of this month. We are visiting Cape Breton in August and wondering how hard it will be to take them all back with us? Is it even possible? Can you fly with firearms? Will the guns have to be registered in his name before we can do this? Any advice will be appreciated. I am trying to google the answer but it is not very helpful.

Thanks!

[Johnny Huntnfish]

I'm no expert, but from what I've gathered you can fly with guns as long as you have a PAL, you check the guns (obviously) and they are in a hard case with a lock on the case.

[nikitasey]

Originally Posted by nikitasey

Long story kind of....

My boyfriends family (2 grandfathers) has passed down all of there guns to him, we live in Calgary, the guns are in Cape Breton NS. He does not have his firearms license right now but we are both booked to get it the end of this month. We are visiting Cape Breton in August and wondering how hard it will be to take them all back with us? Is it even possible? Can you fly with firearms? Will the guns have to be registered in his name before we can do this? Any advice will be appreciated. I am trying to google the answer but it is not very helpful.

Thanks!

I realize there is a lot of grammar mistakes in my post, its my phone!! LOL

[elkhunter11]

You might be booked for the PAL course at the end of the month, but you do not get the PAL as soon as you complete the course. Expect a two to five month wait after you have completed the course, and sent in your application. If you have your PAL, you can take firearms with you if you fly, but you can't take possession of them until you have the proper firearms license. As to registration, non restricted firearms do not need to be registered. I would be paying close attention at your PAL course, and use it as an opportunity to learn as much as you can about our firearms regulations, rather than just attending so that you can be issued a PAL, like many people do.

[Cowtown guy]

There is no more registry unless it is restricted. You need to have a valid PAL in order to legally be in possession (the P in PAL) of any firearm.
If you have a family member that can travel with you with a valid license, they may take possession of them for you and keep them until you have the valid PAL.

[nikitasey]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

You might be booked for the PAL course at the end of the month, but you do not get the PAL as soon as you complete the course. Expect a two to five month wait after you have completed the course, and sent in your application. If you have your PAL, you can take firearms with you if you fly, but you can't take possession of them until you have the proper firearms license. As to registration, non restricted firearms do not need to be registered. I would be paying close attention at your PAL course, and use it as an opportunity to learn as much as you can about our firearms regulations, rather than just attending so that you can be issued a PAL, like many people do.

Absolutely. Not just getting it for the fact of "just having it".

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by nikitasey

Absolutely. Not just getting it for the fact of "just having it".

Good for you, unfortunately you are in the minority, as many people that have their PAL know very little about our firearms regulations.

Many people were upset when the person that used to bring his motorhome to my city to give challenges, stopped operating here. He taught people nothing, but he made sure people received a pass mark, and many people only went to him because it was a quick easy way to qualify to be issued a PAL. Now those same people are asking questions that are so basic, that anyone with a PAL should know the answer.

[nikitasey]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Good for you, unfortunately you are in the minority, as many people that have their PAL know very little about our firearms regulations.

Many people were upset when the person that used to bring his motorhome to my city to give challenges, stopped operating here. He taught people nothing, but he made sure people received a pass mark, and many people only went to him because it was a quick easy way to qualify to be issued a PAL. Now those same people are asking questions that are so basic, that anyone with a PAL should know the answer.

That scares me. I grew up in a house with lots of guns, my dad is a big hunter. I should have gotten it a long time ago but only recently realized that it was something I wanted to do. I regret not paying interest as a child and having my father teach me all the stuff he knows. The only thing I picked up from him is how to skin a rabbit LOL

[recce43]

you could get them shipped to a friend out here who has a pal .

[Suka]

This pdf link is to the Cdn firearms site's (rcmp's) "storing, transporting and displaying" flyer that will answer your questions.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/f...ntreposage.pdf

Far as airlines I'd check with the airline. I'd guess they may have specific packaging requirements/decleration requirements or something?

You could also box them up and mail them, or pack them all in a big box while you're down there and have them trucked to your home after you get your pal's.

[Matt L.]

Originally Posted by nikitasey

That scares me. I grew up in a house with lots of guns, my dad is a big hunter. I should have gotten it a long time ago but only recently realized that it was something I wanted to do. I regret not paying interest as a child and having my father teach me all the stuff he knows. The only thing I picked up from him is how to skin a rabbit LOL

Don't be scared, look at it as a challenge. It's never too late to learn and the more we get to learn the better!

[Armando]

I have a neighbor who's father gave him a 22 rifle which had been in the family for close to 80 yrs.
I now have in my safe till he gets his PAL.
min sentence of possession without a licence is 3 yrs since 2008
not worth it

[nikitasey]

Originally Posted by Matt L.

Don't be scared, look at it as a challenge. It's never too late to learn and the more we get to learn the better!

Originally Posted by Armando

I have a neighbor who's father gave him a 22 rifle which had been in the family for close to 80 yrs.
I now have in my safe till he gets his PAL.
min sentence of possession without a licence is 3 yrs since 2008
not worth it

I did not say anything about taking the guns without my PAL. I would never do such a thing. Im not a criminal LOL

[ghostguy6]

Your best bet would be to call the CFO and discuss it with him/her. There is an exemption for the executor of the estate that grants them the same rights as the original firearms owner. If your traveling via air I would assume you would need some sort of paper work from them as well as a copy of the death certificate.

If your boyfriend is not the executor of the estate, it might be easier to have the executor of the estate hold onto them until you or your boyfriend have a PAL in hand then have them shipped.

[pgavey]

Flying is no problem Hard case, bolts removed, cable or trigger lock and sign a Federal declaration at the airport, stating they are packaged correctly. Just flew back from Comox with two.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by pgavey

Flying is no problem Hard case, bolts removed, cable or trigger lock and sign a Federal declaration at the airport, stating they are packaged correctly. Just flew back from Comox with two.

I have flown with non restricted firearms several times, unloaded, in a locked case, no trigger lock of any kind was required.

[1000yards]

Shipping would be cheaper than airline rates

[uglyelk]

Originally Posted by nikitasey

That scares me.

It shouldn't scare you. Millions of Canadians owned and operated firearms for decades without the education offered by this course. There was no carnage in the streets or the bush,before the invention of this course. It changed nothing as far as safety is concerned.

All the course actually accomplishes is it makes the non owning anti gun crowd feel safer. It gets the lefties votes by eroding law abiding gun owners rights. It's only value is it allows those who complete it to get a permit to buy and keep firearms and ammo.

Lets put things into perspective here, it's a gun course where you never have to shoot a gun. It's all about learning a couple of acronyms and learning the rules so you don't end up with charges for unsafe storage,illegal transport etc. It's value is in defining the hoops that have been placed in front of you with the passing of C68, C 68 was nothing short of a knee jerk reaction to appose voters in Quebec after the Laval shooting.

This course is not about safety, it's about politics. I'm actually nervous when new shooters show up at the range with nothing more than this course and the new firearm they just bought!

Cheers.

[Tundra Monkey]

Originally Posted by 1000yards

Shipping would be cheaper than airline rates

This ^^^^

Extra baggage fees are going to crush you bringing several hard cases plus all your regular luggage.

This will also make it possible to have your PAL in your possession prior to shipping them. If you have a good friend with a PAL that is willing to hold them for you....ship them to his place tomorrow

[Chuck_Wagon]

Shipping firearms by Canada Post.

-the firearm is posted using the most secure means of transmission by post that is offered by the Canada Post Corporation that includes the requirement to obtain a signature on delivery. Meaning, you can ship the firearm using regular parcel and simply pay the $2 additional fee for signature required at delivery.

-Customers who wish to ship firearms must also:
- unload the firearms.

- attach a secure locking device to the firearms. (buy some trigger locks in Cape Breton)
“secure locking device” means a device
(a) that can only be opened or released by the use of an electronic, magnetic or mechanical key or by setting the device in accordance with an alphabetical or numerical combination; and
(b) that, when applied to a firearm, prevents the firearm from being discharged.

- lock the firearms in a sturdy, non-transparent container.
Buy enough of these online from Wolverine for $25 each and have them shipped to the address in Cape Breton, because technically the firearms have to be in a locked container. These gun cases will come in an outer cardboard box.
http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/details/19108/Wolverine-Supplies-Custom-Gun-Case.aspx
Or
Buy some bubble wrap and enough of these boxes online from ULine and have them shipped to the address in Cape Breton.
This is the most common way firearms are shipped even by most firearms dealers.
http://www.uline.ca/BL_433/Rifle-Boxes

When you are in Cape Breton in August, box the firearms up and mail them home.

[uglyelk]

I've received probably 50 firearms in the mail. Restricted and non restricted. 7 in the last month all from licensed firearms dealers from all over Canada, not one has arrived with a lock on it. All came expedited service age identification & signature required. I've probably sold and shipped 30 firearms via the mail the same way.

It's none of Canada's post business whats in a parcel if it's not being shipped outside of Canada. I don't tell them if I'm shipping a knife, chocolates, firearms, or dirty socks. It's not really any of their damn business. We have transportation requirements spelled out in the act. Gun locks are not required by the law during commercial transport.

This is straight from the RCMP web page:

Q. Can I send firearms in the mail?

You may ship restricted firearms, non-restricted firearms and prohibited handguns from one Canadian location to another Canadian location if you use the most secure method offered by Canada Post that requires a signature upon delivery. Prohibited firearms, other than prohibited handguns, and firearms being shipped across the Canadian border, must be shipped by an individual or carrier company licensed under the Firearms Act to transport those classes of firearms.

You are required by law to ship firearms unloaded and in a safe and secure manner to deter loss, theft and accidents.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just wrap it well and don't write gun on the box. If it's good enough for the law it better be good enough for Canada Post. When I pick up a long gun at the post office. They just say Laird your new golf club is here!

[twofifty]

Originally Posted by nikitasey

....
.... The only thing I picked up from him is how to skin a rabbit LOL

That's a really good start. Just upsize what you know to a 175# buck.

As to the firearms, the Firearms Act gives you another option.
A non-licensed (no PAL) adult who is the Estate's executor may legally possess your grandfather's firearms, provided the guns are stored (and transported) per the storage regulations. This is for a limited period of time
(90 days?? or till the Estate settles??)

[twofifty]

Originally Posted by pgavey

Flying is no problem Hard case, bolts removed, cable or trigger lock and sign a Federal declaration at the airport, stating they are packaged correctly. Just flew back from Comox with two.

Those stupid govt. labelling regs only serve to make our firearms and ammunition a tempting target for airport thieves (staff and the general public).

[Chuck_Wagon]

canada post regulations:

https://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/m...-e.asp#1389620

3.3 Firearms (including imitation and replica firearms)

When it is determined permissible to ship firearms, they must be shipped as follows:
Non-contract customer: Regular Parcel with Signature option.

There cannot be any ammunition in the firearm or in the package. Bullets, cartridges and other ammunition are dangerous goods and cannot be mailed. These items fall under Class 1 (Explosives) of the Canadian Transportation of Dangerous Goods Act and Regulations.

Customers who wish to ship firearms must:

-unload the firearms
-attach a secure locking device to the firearms
-lock the firearms in a sturdy, non-transparent container, and
-remove the bolt or bolt carrier from any automatic firearms (if removable).

Firearms cannot be shipped via air and cannot have any markings on the outside of the packaging. The customer is solely responsible for meeting all Canadian Firearms Centre regulations.

[twofifty]

Typical govt ineptitude:
Cda Post says lock em.
F.Act says no need.

I'd zap-strap the trigger or the action and put in mail.

[Dick284]

This debate again!
A zip tie or tie wrap is not a secure locking device!
See post # 20.

[guywiththemule]

Originally Posted by uglyelk

it shouldn't scare you. Millions of canadians owned and operated firearms for decades without the education offered by this course. There was no carnage in the streets or the bush,before the invention of this course. It changed nothing as far as safety is concerned.

All the course actually accomplishes is it makes the non owning anti gun crowd feel safer. It gets the lefties votes by eroding law abiding gun owners rights. It's only value is it allows those who complete it to get a permit to buy and keep firearms and ammo.

lets put things into perspective here, it's a gun course where you never have to shoot a gun. it's all about learning a couple of acronyms and learning the rules so you don't end up with charges for unsafe storage,illegal transport etc. It's value is in defining the hoops that have been placed in front of you with the passing of c68, c 68 was nothing short of a knee jerk reaction to appose voters in quebec after the laval shooting.

This course is not about safety, it's about politics. I'm actually nervous when new shooters show up at the range with nothing more than this course and the new firearm they just bought!

Cheers.

^^^^^^ this

[Chuck_Wagon]

Originally Posted by uglyelk

I've probably sold and shipped 30 firearms via the mail the same way.

Gun locks are not required by the law during commercial transport.

Just wrap it well and don't write gun on the box. If it's good enough for the law it better be good enough for Canada Post.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.
Just because you and others are shipping firearms illegally doesn't mean you should recommend people do the same. You really should investigate the consequence of your actions, your personal opinion and interpretation mean nothing in court. Canada Post has every right to stipulate shipping regulations supported by criminal code.

86(2) Every person commits an offence who contravenes a regulation made under paragraph 117(h) of the Firearms Act respecting the storage, handling, transportation, shipping, display, advertising and mail-order sales of firearms and restricted weapons.

86(3) Every person who commits an offence under subsection (1) or (2)
(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment
(i) in the case of a first offence, for a term not exceeding two years, and
(ii) in the case of a second or subsequent offence, for a term not exceeding five years; or
(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

[Chuck_Wagon]

Originally Posted by Dick284

This debate again!

I know, and you do too, same old, same old.
Just goes to show how convoluted the regulations are and the need for a total rewrite of the firearms act.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Chuck_Wagon

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.
Just because you and others are shipping firearms illegally doesn't mean you should recommend people do the same. You really should investigate the consequence of your actions, your personal opinion and interpretation mean nothing in court. Canada Post has every right to stipulate shipping regulations supported by criminal code.

86(2) Every person commits an offence who contravenes a regulation made under paragraph 117(h) of the Firearms Act respecting the storage, handling, transportation, shipping, display, advertising and mail-order sales of firearms and restricted weapons.

86(3) Every person who commits an offence under subsection (1) or (2)
(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment
(i) in the case of a first offence, for a term not exceeding two years, and
(ii) in the case of a second or subsequent offence, for a term not exceeding five years; or
(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

You must not be familiar with this part of the firearms Act

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/r.../FullText.html

3. These Regulations do not apply to the storage and transportation of a non-restricted firearm, restricted firearm or prohibited handgun in the course of transmission by post within Canada from the time the firearm or handgun is posted to the time it is delivered to the addressee, within the meaning of subsection 2(2) of the Canada Post Corporation Act, or returned to the sender.