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  #211  
Old 05-15-2018, 10:39 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Kurt505 View Post
Serious question here,


What happens to a 143gr 6.5 caliber eldx bullet that is traveling 2000fps that makes it non lethal?
Nothing. It didn't hit anything.

Seriously .. at what MV are you lauching it at ?
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  #212  
Old 05-15-2018, 11:43 PM
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You are blessed, that's for sure. Trigger time galore and at those distances I'm sure you do learn something each time.

With all the previous CM chatter condensed, it's all about the CM being a reliable and consistent Large Game cartridge (Elk/Moose) at ranges of 600 yds plus. It's not about the cartridge itself being an effective Game Cartridge at nominal ranges. As a small cased 6.5 the CM will either prove itself in that LR capacity or it won't. One LR promotional Vid posted on YouTube doesn't really cut it , for me anyway.. You have read the rest. To each their own.
Enjoy your Range !
Who said anything about 600yds plus? As far as I knew we were all talking about it being effective up to 600yds. You should have looked at my tables
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  #213  
Old 05-16-2018, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
Nothing. It didn't hit anything.

Seriously .. at what MV are you lauching it at ?
Have a look at the dam ballistic charts and read up on the specs Hornady printed about the 143gr ELDX. Man, your knocking something you have no clue about. Just a little research on your part would save a lot of back and forth.

From reading your posts it's clear your running down the wrong tracks.

It is not my intent to try and shoot an animal at long range, the closer the better.

I don't think the Creedmoor is the best long range rifle available.

All of the big game I have killed have been under 600yds.

The criteria for my latest rifle was as follows:

Short action
Capable of a wide variety of hunting, coyote to moose out to 600yds max.
Low recoil
Long barrel life because I plan on putting a pile of lead through the pipe.
Cheap ammo.

With this list, and a pile of research, being that it's a custom rifle and I reload, I was able to chose literally any cartridge produced. Based on my requirements the 6.5 Creedmoor fit the bill perfectly.

Have you ever shot a big game animal at 400-500yds with a 143gr ELDX out of your swede?
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  #214  
Old 05-16-2018, 08:06 AM
Nyksta Nyksta is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Kurt505 View Post
Have a look at the dam ballistic charts and read up on the specs Hornady printed about the 143gr ELDX. Man, your knocking something you have no clue about. Just a little research on your part would save a lot of back and forth.

From reading your posts it's clear your running down the wrong tracks.

It is not my intent to try and shoot an animal at long range, the closer the better.

I don't think the Creedmoor is the best long range rifle available.

All of the big game I have killed have been under 600yds.

The criteria for my latest rifle was as follows:

Short action
Capable of a wide variety of hunting, coyote to moose out to 600yds max.
Low recoil
Long barrel life because I plan on putting a pile of lead through the pipe.
Cheap ammo.

With this list, and a pile of research, being that it's a custom rifle and I reload, I was able to chose literally any cartridge produced. Based on my requirements the 6.5 Creedmoor fit the bill perfectly.

Have you ever shot a big game animal at 400-500yds with a 143gr ELDX out of your swede?
So all your talk about how more efficient 6.5CM is beyond 600 yards is a moot point. From muzzle to 600 yards even the poor bc 30 cal bullets launched from a 308 win have more energy and more muzzle velocity. 270 win and 3006 both beat the 308. There are plenty of popular hunting cartridges that beat the 308 win for energy and velocity. Except 6.5CM is not one of them.

You are clearly swayed by being recoil sensitive and that is fine for you. If someone wants a: Short action
Capable of a wide variety of hunting, coyote to moose out to 600yds max.
Low recoil
Long barrel life because I plan on putting a pile of lead through the pipe.
Cheap ammo.

Get a recoil pad for your shoulder. 308 win beats it on every point other than recoil. And recoil is a direct result if putting energy into a projectile. A larger caliber with similar bullet weights allows for faster powders burning in the barrel resulting in more energy going down range.

You have argued for an uncountable number of posts on multiple threads about how happy you are with the performance of the 6.5CM because it finally surpasses 308 velocity and energy past 600 yards and it is all BS. Everyone agrees that the hornady eld-x 143 grain 6.5 bullet takes the lead past 600 yards. Everyone else agrees that both the 308 win and the 6.5CM have run out of hunting energy and velocity also at 600 yards. 6.5CM is nothing but a paper puncher past 600 yards or a recoil sensitive handicap hunting cartridge if 308 is too much to handle. It has slightly lower muzzle velocities and smaller lighter bullets.

Last edited by Nyksta; 05-16-2018 at 08:31 AM.
  #215  
Old 05-16-2018, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Nyksta View Post
So all your talk about how more efficient 6.5CM is beyond 600 yards is a moot point. From muzzle to 600 yards even the poor bc 30 cal bullets launched from a 308 win have more energy and more muzzle velocity. 270 win and 3006 both beat the 308. Just about every popular hunting cartridge beats the 308 for energy and velocity. Except 6.5 CM and 243 win.

You are clearly swayed by being recoil sensitive and that is fine for you. If someone wants a: Short action
Capable of a wide variety of hunting, coyote to moose out to 600yds max.
Low recoil
Long barrel life because I plan on putting a pile of lead through the pipe.
Cheap ammo.

Get a recoil pad for your shoulder. 308 win beats it on every point other than recoil. And recoil is a direct result if putting energy into a projectile. A larger caliber allows for faster powders burning in the barrel resulting in more energy going down range.

You have argued for an uncountable number of posts on multiple threads about how happy you are with your 600 yards to 1000 yards performance of the 6.5CM and it is all BS. Everyone agrees that the hornady eld-x 143 grain 6.5 bullet takes the lead past 600 yards. Everyone else agrees that both the 308 win and the 6.5CM have run out of hunting energy and velocity also at 600 yards. 6.5CM is nothing but a paper puncher past 600 yards or a recoil sensitive handicap if 308 is too much to handle. It has slightly lower muzzle volicities and smaller lighter bullets. Get yourself a pink rifle and be done with the comparison.
You've read all my posts and STILL DONT GET IT????

A 308 was a good cartridge, the 6.5 Creedmoor is better, you're just too old to accept it. There are a couple old people on the forum who still are too intimidated with change that will side with you, but the majority still have the capability of having an open mind willing to accept facts.

Pick up one quote of mine where I boast about the hunting virtues of a Creedmoor between 600yds and 1000yds. One of us is full of chit, I'm saying it's you, pull a quote from any of my posts that says different, there are definetly enough to choose from. At 600yds the Creedmoor starts pulling ahead of the 308. The 308 bullet slows down faster because of its shape, there is no arguing there.

Even Salavee agrees the 6.5 Creedmoor is capable out to 300yds, why use a 308 when the 6.5 will do the job? Oh ya, because it worked for your dad and his dad, new technology is too scary to chance.

I don't care what color of rifle you figure I should shoot, I don't have to pound my shoulder with recoil to prove to you or anyone else I'm a man. I don't have any insecurities of my masculinity, no need for me to over compensate with a big gun to hide behind.

Blah blah blah 308 is the best. Blah blah blah I can handle the recoil of a 308 so I'm tough.

I'll guarantee you if we were to sit at the bench with the big guns when I'm reaching for another box of ammo you'll be reaching for a bag of ice for your shoulder. Having a choice in what you want to shoot has nothing to do with what you can handle.

0-600yds there isn't an animal in North America that a 308 can kill that a 6.5 Creedmoor can't. After 600yds the performance of the 6.5 Creedmoor starts to outshine the 308. That is, and always has been my point. Nothing more.
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  #216  
Old 05-16-2018, 09:07 AM
Nyksta Nyksta is offline
 
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My initial pink rifle comment was a joke referencing the first page of this thread and how now its 8 pages long. I deleted it prior to you responding as the color of the rifle has nothing to do with the power or under-power of any cartridge.
  #217  
Old 05-16-2018, 10:19 AM
lclund1946 lclund1946 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
Fair enough. I may have been a bit too defensive on my assumption that it was me . Sorry... and I hear you on the Pronghorn episode.

It's rather interesting that I have three 6.5x55's -two with modern actions with high pressure loads that I have used quite a lot. I really adore the cartridge and found it to be literally lethal on Deer sized Game to around three hundred yards, mostly closer, but I have not, nor would I consider using it on Larger Game much further than 300 yds. I have larger calibers and cartridges that fill that bill much better although the 6.5x55 would be quite capable using 160 grainers. Until the CM is truly proven to be a consistent 600 Large Game cartridge, I will remain very skeptical in spite of all the speculation and I would have to see it done more than once... in real life or darn close to it, before I became a disciple. I know the more capable 6.5 Swede is not up that task. If you had one, I think you might agree.
My range is about 15 minutes from home and I'm usually there a couple of times a week during the milder months. If the opportunity arises I would welcome the opportunity to share a shooting session with you. You probably wouldn't learn anything but I might, and it would be fun.
You say you love your 6.5x55's and suggest that it and the 6.5CM are only lethal on Deer sized game, to 300 yards. Then you say you have never used it on big game past 300 yards but it would be quite capable using 160 grainers. Apparently you have not been paying much attention to what has been said and have never compared the 600 yard ballistics of the 160 grain bullet you are using to the 143 ELDX at 2700. You might find that your 160 grain falls short but it is possible that it may be suitable for game at longer distances. However you will never know unless you do the math and actually try it on a moose or elk at whatever range that it is still traveling 1800 fps and retaining near 1200 ft lbs energy.

Go back to the post where I posted actual results of moose being shot at 600 yards with a 30-06/ and 270 and you will see that bullets, looking much like the 143 ELDX at 1800 f/s, with good mushroomed frontal area and retained mass, either stopped under the hide or were complete pass trough's. I did not watch my father, or myself shoot the moose on You Tube back in the late 1950's/60's, as we didn't even have computers. However my father was a trained military sniper and was quite good with a rifle just like this M17:
[IMG][/IMG]
I also had the same result with a 140 Nosler 140 SB, before the Ballistic tips, starting at 3000 fps,in my Rem 700V with the load shown grouping 0.19" at 100 yards:
[IMG][/IMG]

I would suggest that you actually pay attention to what is being said before you disrupt a good thread with what you believe is possible. Better yet do the math, find a load that will shoot Sub 1/2 MOA, and do some testing for yourself. Perhaps you will become a believer as beliefs based on ignorance are not really credible although they seem to be held by a lot of people. Unfortunately most of those people are like the one portrayed in the YouTube video that cat posted.
  #218  
Old 05-16-2018, 10:59 AM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Originally Posted by lclund1946 View Post
You say you love your 6.5x55's and suggest that it and the 6.5CM are only lethal on Deer sized game, to 300 yards. Then you say you have never used it on big game past 300 yards but it would be quite capable using 160 grainers. Apparently you have not been paying much attention to what has been said and have never compared the 600 yard ballistics of the 160 grain bullet you are using to the 143 ELDX at 2700. You might find that your 160 grain falls short but it is possible that it may be suitable for game at longer distances. However you will never know unless you do the math and actually try it on a moose or elk at whatever range that it is still traveling 1800 fps and retaining near 1200 ft lbs energy.

Go back to the post where I posted actual results of moose being shot at 600 yards with a 30-06/ and 270 and you will see that bullets, looking much like the 143 ELDX at 1800 f/s, with good mushroomed frontal area and retained mass, either stopped under the hide or were complete pass trough's. I did not watch my father, or myself shoot the moose on You Tube back in the late 1950's/60's, as we didn't even have computers. However my father was a trained military sniper and was quite good with a rifle just like this M17:
[IMG][/IMG]
I also had the same result with a 140 Nosler 140 SB, before the Ballistic tips, starting at 3000 fps,in my Rem 700V with the load shown grouping 0.19" at 100 yards:
[IMG][/IMG]

I would suggest that you actually pay attention to what is being said before you disrupt a good thread with what you believe is possible. Better yet do the math, find a load that will shoot Sub 1/2 MOA, and do some testing for yourself. Perhaps you will become a believer as beliefs based on ignorance are not really credible although they seem to be held by a lot of people. Unfortunately most of those people are like the one portrayed in the YouTube video that cat posted.
Well Icelund, you seem to have it aced. You run with what you think and wish to compare with and I'll stay with what I believe. I have a few bullets that look like others as well, but for some reason they perform differently. Why not post a few pics of the .277 and.308. projectiles that shot that 600 yd Moose and look like .264 143 ELD-x's
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  #219  
Old 05-16-2018, 11:00 AM
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I don't use ft/lbs in calcs. but lot's of people still do so so that can play a factor in doing this theoretical shopping.

In reality few of us regularly kill anything over 400 yards and there are reasons for that well beyond the cartridge chosen. The cartridges we are yapping about are typically far more capable than we are. That could be exactly the point Salavee is trying to drive home, maybe i'm making assumptions again?

So theoretical shopping with a few youtube kills here and there is what we are working with lol. The creedmoor is the david and the .308 win is goliath. hardy har har

There's nothing wrong with the math. It's what explains how a 160 gr 6.5mm projectile from a 6.5 swede can kill things way bigger than most people have any reason to even believe possible.

Also explains why in the big bore cartridges compared on things like elephants and dangerous game that the math around ft/lbs isn't a factor as some really big fat heavy hitters throwing huge ft/lbs aren't penetrating far enough to kill when much lighter hitters with higher s.d.s and velocities are, and have always been able to penetrate those same animals. So i long ago learned to ignore the ft/lbs math.

If the penetration is there (s.d.) and minimum recommended impact velocity for bullets are known then that is the most accurate way to predict terminal performance imo. How does ft/lbs factor in again? (aside from being a neat calc. of v2xm/450240)

I thought this had largely been educated as far less important than s.d. and recommended minimum impact velocities? Has there been a shift or people like the sound of those ft/lbs still, or we just behind the times a little still?

And Nyksta, if i didn't know any better i'd say you were riling Kurt up just for fun? You dog

p.s. if the military testing posted above and the rest of the evidence shown on steel, the prc movement, those who've shot both extensively at range, hunting stuff etc. doesn't show that the 6.5 Creedmoor is a better choice over and above how good it looks on paper then i don't know what is...just for argument sake for hunting only, the 1/3rd less wind drift, less recoil ....are going to certainly help anyone kill more frequently and accurately at 600 yards and further, than with a .308...that's easy to understand right? the s.d.'s likely higher so will penetrate even better at all ranges too, the math is there, the evidence will support the math, that's how it works, that's why we can shop in confidence

what the individuals can do in the field with their choices is an entirely different ball game altogether, when you choose say a 6.5 creedmoor over a .308 win for example what you've done is you've maximized your odds for anything over point blank zero range...you've chosen the most efficient option, your odds will be higher of success and more forgiving of your mistakes at anything beyond 300 yards, makes more sense for hunting or when life is at stake(military)
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Last edited by Stinky Coyote; 05-16-2018 at 11:22 AM.
  #220  
Old 05-16-2018, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote View Post


And Nyksta, if i didn't know any better i'd say you were riling Kurt up just for fun? You dog


Trust me, I'm sitting at home with a broken leg....... arguing with people on the internet is one of my few pleasures at the moment. The last thing I want is for Nyksta, Salavee, or Marky Mark to give up the good fight!

Lol
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  #221  
Old 05-16-2018, 12:44 PM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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After reading this thread, I'm going out to buy a 243/ 6mm.

But then again I could do the 30/30 if I learn to play the wind.
  #222  
Old 05-16-2018, 12:57 PM
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Trust me, I'm sitting at home with a broken leg....... arguing with people on the internet is one of my few pleasures at the moment. The last thing I want is for Nyksta, Salavee, or Marky Mark to give up the good fight!

Lol
Put up some better subject matter and I'll stick around.
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  #223  
Old 05-16-2018, 12:59 PM
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lmao, don't get me going on the Grendel Don but wait....there's the 6mm Creedmoor now

Kurt, have you been to any crossbow or aba threads lately? Start one up?
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Last edited by Stinky Coyote; 05-16-2018 at 01:08 PM.
  #224  
Old 05-16-2018, 01:22 PM
bobtodrick bobtodrick is offline
 
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Gotta admit, this has been more fun that watching a couple of toddlers arguing.
More fun actually because the toddlers eventually get tired and give it up.
  #225  
Old 05-16-2018, 01:53 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Originally Posted by bobtodrick View Post
Gotta admit, this has been more fun that watching a couple of toddlers arguing.
More fun actually because the toddlers eventually get tired and give it up.
Always good to have a mature adult monitoring things.
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  #226  
Old 05-16-2018, 02:23 PM
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Put up some better subject matter and I'll stick around.
What difference does the subject matter make? It's not like you've actually read anything that's been posted thus far.....
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  #227  
Old 05-16-2018, 04:27 PM
SlightlyDistracting SlightlyDistracting is offline
 
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Anybody who knows anything knows you need at least 30 cal for anything bigger than a large groundhog
  #228  
Old 05-16-2018, 04:59 PM
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Anybody who knows anything knows you need at least 30 cal for anything bigger than a large groundhog
Finally someone who knows what's what! Ha ha
  #229  
Old 05-16-2018, 07:19 PM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
 
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Anybody who knows anything knows you need at least 30 cal for anything bigger than a large groundhog
Agreed. Creedmore smeed more is what I say.
  #230  
Old 05-16-2018, 08:26 PM
SlightlyDistracting SlightlyDistracting is offline
 
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Lol not even. My latest rifle is a 65 creedmoor
I absolutely love it, and the round.
But ive been on the forum long enough to know that unless you have an artillery piece or "30 cal" youll never get a clean humane kill
  #231  
Old 05-17-2018, 06:20 AM
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Agreed. Creedmore smeed more is what I say.
that's funny, prompts thoughts on some pet names, in jest or otherwise

siddy fi creed mo smeed mo....yo

word
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  #232  
Old 05-17-2018, 11:24 AM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
 
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that's funny, prompts thoughts on some pet names, in jest or otherwise

siddy fi creed mo smeed mo....yo

word
Lol. Much like banana do fanna creed more feed more need more. No matter what the 6.5 creed more raps better then 308 or ought 6
  #233  
Old 05-17-2018, 12:59 PM
bobtodrick bobtodrick is offline
 
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Always good to have a mature adult monitoring things.
So you're admitting you're not a mature adult?
  #234  
Old 05-17-2018, 12:59 PM
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creed more feed more need more
lmfao...that could catch on
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Up to 7 deer totalling 1000" or higher
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1000 Club w/6, also 700 Muley Club(w/bow), 1 deer away from 2000 Club!
  #235  
Old 05-17-2018, 09:42 PM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
 
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Does the 6.5 cm have anything over a 26 nosler?
  #236  
Old 05-17-2018, 09:47 PM
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Does the 6.5 cm have anything over a 26 nosler?
Besides less recoil and noise and cheaper to shoot , nope!
Cat
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  #237  
Old 05-17-2018, 09:54 PM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
 
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Besides less recoil and noise and cheaper to shoot , nope!
Cat
Just thinking out loud but Iíve got a rem 700 in 300 rum that might make a nice 26 nosler.
  #238  
Old 05-17-2018, 10:00 PM
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Besides less recoil and noise and cheaper to shoot , nope!
Cat
Don't forget a short action and barrel life.
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  #239  
Old 05-18-2018, 05:18 AM
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Don't forget a short action and barrel life.
Barrels wear out regardless and 1885 or Ruger No.1 actions are shorter than any bolt action anyway!

The action length was never an issue for me but I suppose it is fir some .
Cat
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what power? FFP--SFP?paralax? Heck with it, I'm screwing on the Centrals and diopter- pass me my single point sling!
  #240  
Old 05-18-2018, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Norwest Alta View Post
Does the 6.5 cm have anything over a 26 nosler?
In 10 years the world will say what's a 26 nosler?, and you'll see 6.5 CM on every ammo shelf.
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Any combination of deer species
P&Y measuring standards, Net Inches Only
Meeting the P&Y minimums to qualify
Up to 7 deer totalling 1000" or higher
1000 is Level 1, 2000, 3000...is attainable!

1000 Club w/6, also 700 Muley Club(w/bow), 1 deer away from 2000 Club!
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