Trump vs Trudeau

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So if Canadians do die because of a shortage of masks, is it because Trump blocked the sale of US made masks outside of the USA, or is it because Trudeau gave away 16 tons of masks and supplies that we already had?

This must be so exciting for you, an intersection between hyper partisan politics and rabid xenophobia just does't come around that often does it?

We sent masks to China because it directly benefited Canadians. Every single global pandemic response plan discussed by responsible professionals makes it clear that swift action to contain an outbreak quickly saves lives down the road. In hindsight there's things that we should have done differently but this is not one of them.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If you were a leader, which would be more acceptable to you, having people in other countries die because you wouldn't give away your supply of masks, or having your own people die, because you gave your masks to another country?

So not helping China at the outset and then having to come hat in hand when we inevitably had an outbreak here and quickly exhausted that supply anyway is a better solution? Our domestic manufacturing capability for these products is little to none, we need China's factories now.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

This must be so exciting for you, an intersection between hyper partisan politics and rabid xenophobia just does't come around that often does it?

We sent masks to China because it directly benefited Canadians. Every single global pandemic response plan discussed by responsible professionals makes it clear that swift action to contain an outbreak quickly saves lives down the road. In hindsight there's things that we should have done differently but this is not one of them.



So not helping China at the outset and then having to come hat in hand when we inevitably had an outbreak here and quickly exhausted that supply anyway is a better solution? Our domestic manufacturing capability for these products is little to none, we need China's factories now.

The way that you avoided answering my questions, you might have a career in politics.

I will ask one more time, to see if you can actually answer the question, or not.

If you were the leader of a country, and there were not enough masks available in your own country, would you keep your supply for your citizens, and save as many of them as possible, or would you give some of those masks to another country, and let some of your own people possibly die as a result?

So can you answer that question, or will you just avoid answering again?

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The way that you avoided answering my questions, you might have a career in politics.

I didn't avoid anything, your question is vague and doesn't take into account how global supply chains actually work. It's a childish strawman, you can't distill a complicated situation down like that and expect to make a good decision.

Trump wants to keep 3M from exporting masks. Seems simple until you realize that 3M has obligations all over the world, maybe if they export a bunch of masks to us that means the workers in our paper mills supplying their factory with a specialized product can maintain or increase their output of raw materials. Said raw materials are critical to the long term operation of that facility so that's kind of important isn't it?

Short term pain for long term gain. aka being a damn adult. Yes I would absolutely make that decision if our long term prospects were improved by it.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

I didn't avoid anything, your question is vague and doesn't take into account how global supply chains actually work. It's a childish strawman, you can't distill a complicated situation down like that and expect to make a good decision.

Trump wants to keep 3M from exporting masks. Seems simple until you realize that 3M has obligations all over the world, maybe if they export a bunch of masks to us that means the workers in our paper mills supplying their factory with a specialized product can maintain or increase their output of raw materials. Said raw materials are critical to the long term operation of that facility so that's kind of important isn't it?

Short term pain for long term gain. aka being a damn adult. Yes I would absolutely make that decision if our long term prospects were improved by it.

And once again , you were not able to answer the question, despite there being no lives at stake regardless of your answer. Trump didn't have the option of avoiding the question, he had hundreds of millions of people to answer to, and many American lives at stake, and he had to make a decision. The citizens in his country that need those masks, won't be protected by long drawn out explanations about global supply chains, they need the masks, and they need them now. Trump had to make a decision, and he made it, he chose to protect as many American lives as possible, and if you asked the US citizens, most probably support his decision.

[bessiedog]

Elk.... honestly answer this:

did you think stuff would get this bad back in Feb.. as a person that keeps up to date on current affairs..?

[stringer]

Originally Posted by EZM

Trump is telling you he has done a spectacular, powerful and great job on this. Like no one ever has before. I do agree his response and leadership in this area will set a "new world benchmark" …… that I can assure you.

If Trump says it, it must be true - so don't try to let data or facts get in the way of reality.

At the time that a pandemic was declared the NYT stated that 160M-214M people would be infected and that 200,000 - 1.7M would die.
As of today 356,414 infected 10,490 have died
Look like he's done one heck of a job to me

Cheers

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And once again , you were not able to answer the question, despite there being no lives at stake regardless of your answer.

Here's what I posted:

Yes I would absolutely make that decision if our long term prospects were improved by it.

How is that not an answer?

[stringer]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

This must be so exciting for you, an intersection between hyper partisan politics and rabid xenophobia just does't come around that often does it?

We sent masks to China because it directly benefited Canadians. Every single global pandemic response plan discussed by responsible professionals makes it clear that swift action to contain an outbreak quickly saves lives down the road. In hindsight there's things that we should have done differently but this is not one of them.



So not helping China at the outset and then having to come hat in hand when we inevitably had an outbreak here and quickly exhausted that supply anyway is a better solution? Our domestic manufacturing capability for these products is little to none, we need China's factories now.

Between Jan 24 and the end of Feb according to customs data China inported 2.2 billion masks in an attempt to corner the market on PPE
At the time they accepted Canadian PPE aid knowing of the danger the virus posed and didn't tell the world .

[EZM]

Originally Posted by stringer

At the time that a pandemic was declared the NYT stated that 160M-214M people would be infected and that 200,000 - 1.7M would die.
As of today 356,414 infected 10,490 have died
Look like he's done one heck of a job to me

Cheers

Let's not be naive to think we are anywhere near the end of this thing, not here and certainly not in the US ……

Having said that, Let's hope that the death rates remain as low as they (the US administration) are predicting.

Keep in mind the 100,000-240,000 deaths, as I understood it, were if they take immediate containment measures and that those numbers can be worse, and even climb up to those staggering numbers on the high side of the curve (1MM+ dead) just in the US.

The problem is that already, both infection rates and deaths are growing faster in the United States compared to any other country on the planet.

I admit it's easy to blame the President here, and any decision he makes will get scrutiny BUT the facts remain the same.

I'd say that his own worlds calling this a "hoax" or "contained" when those experts around them told him otherwise has certainly slowed down the response of his country ……. to that end ….. there is no doubt in my mind.

That seem pretty clear to me. Simply based on the same numbers you are presenting.

Let's hope I'm wrong here.

[JamesB]

Originally Posted by lastlatvian

On November 19th 2019 both the USA and Singapore recorded their first case of Covid19. Taking into account only population % the US has done 30 times worse at managing the outbreak. Surpassing every other country in the world for the poorest response. Worse then Iran, Italy, Spain and ever other first world country. This is Trumps leadership skillet in raw numbers. Figure it out.

Trump has now cut off supplies to Canada, stolen supplies bound for Canada. If you're pro Trump, you're anti-Canadian. Fox news has done a better job then the CBC... if you believe otherwise.

Canadians will die because you think you're an American Republican not a Canadian Conservative. This thread is disgusting to read.

Really? So given the proportionate sizes of the populations, and the relative number of tests done, you are concluding that things are worse in the US than either Italy or Spain? I am interested in how you reached that conclusion.

Also, it's hilarious the number of people who continually chime in to complain how badly Trump has managed this, when they actually have zero knowledge of what the experts were saying and how many times the narrative has changed. I recommend reading this before making these types of statements, as it helps put things in perspective:
https://edmontonjournal.com/news/nat...low-the-virus/

[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by lastlatvian

On November 19th 2019 both the USA and Singapore recorded their first case of Covid19. Taking into account only population % the US has done 30 times worse at managing the outbreak. Surpassing every other country in the world for the poorest response. Worse then Iran, Italy, Spain and ever other first world country. This is Trumps leadership skillet in raw numbers. Figure it out.

Trump has now cut off supplies to Canada, stolen supplies bound for Canada. If you're pro Trump, you're anti-Canadian. Fox news has done a better job then the CBC... if you believe otherwise.

Canadians will die because you think you're an American Republican not a Canadian Conservative. This thread is disgusting to read.

All being equal population wise, what powers does the Singapore government have to prevent their population from traveling vs the USA? I’ve talked to police officers in Singapore and hear what they are authorized to do that the US constitution Prohibits. In other words the USA can issue a shelter in place however enforcing it is a slippery slope civil rights wise. You start prohibiting people from freely moving around and soon you have Soviet Russia demanding you show your papers just to walk down the street or go to the next town over.

[stringer]

Originally Posted by EZM

Let's not be naive to think we are anywhere near the end of this thing, not here and certainly not in the US ……

Having said that, Let's hope that the death rates remain as low as they (the US administration) are predicting.

Keep in mind the 100,000-240,000 deaths, as I understood it, were if they take immediate containment measures and that those numbers can be worse, and even climb up to those staggering numbers on the high side of the curve (1MM+ dead) just in the US.

The problem is that already, both infection rates and deaths are growing faster in the United States compared to any other country on the planet.

I admit it's easy to blame the President here, and any decision he makes will get scrutiny BUT the facts remain the same.

I'd say that his own worlds calling this a "hoax" or "contained" when those experts around them told him otherwise has certainly slowed down the response of his country ……. to that end ….. there is no doubt in my mind.

That seem pretty clear to me. Simply based on the same numbers you are presenting.

Let's hope I'm wrong here.

Your wrong he never called the virus a hoax here is the video to prove it
Enjoy



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G5TZ6fTYrsE


Cheers

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Elk.... honestly answer this:

did you think stuff would get this bad back in Feb.. as a person that keeps up to date on current affairs..?

I expected worse, and I still expect things to get worse in many locations. That is why I pulled everything that I had in the markets, and I am still sitting on about 80% cash.

[bessiedog]

ok.... thanks for the answer...

Did you take any other measures....


I started getting ready in Jan. I took alot of flack for it from wifey.

i think I'm gonna regret holding off on some measures i was considering





...like them bridges.....

[EZM]

Originally Posted by JamesB

Really? So given the proportionate sizes of the populations, and the relative number of tests done, you are concluding that things are worse in the US than either Italy or Spain? I am interested in how you reached that conclusion.

Also, it's hilarious the number of people who continually chime in to complain how badly Trump has managed this, when they actually have zero knowledge of what the experts were saying and how many times the narrative has changed. I recommend reading this before making these types of statements, as it helps put things in perspective:
https://edmontonjournal.com/news/nat...low-the-virus/

Sorry the cut n' paste didn't work here ….. but I agree with the fact the US is likely to have a worse situation here compared to both Italy and Spain …… keep in mind the US is weeks and weeks behind them in timeline and already they have more cases in the US compared to OItaly and Spain combined.

Unfortunately, the death rate is proportionate, and I hope I'm wrong, but the US will overtake both these nations very quickly in death toll.

So yeah, there is every indication that the US is in FAR worse shape compared to ANY*** other country out there.

Maybe China lied about their numbers***so who knows, but they are certainly in worse shape compared to Italy or Spain as contributor alluded to.






Confirmed

Deaths

Recovered


United States

362,108

10,677

18,940


Spain

135,032

13,169

40,437


Italy

132,547

16,523

22,837


Germany

101,214

1,622

25,280


China (mainland)

81,708

3,331

77,078


France

74,390

8,911

17,250


Iran

60,500

3,739

24,236


United Kingdom

51,608

5,373

-


Turkey

30,217

649

1,326


Switzerland

21,657

765

8,056


Belgium

20,814

1,632

3,986


Netherlands

18,803

1,867

-


Canada

16,487

321

3,493

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by EZM

Sorry the cut n' paste didn't work here ….. but I agree with the fact the US is likely to have a worse situation here compared to both Italy and Spain …… keep in mind the US is weeks and weeks behind them in timeline and already they have more cases in the US compared to OItaly and Spain combined.

Unfortunately, the death rate is proportionate, and I hope I'm wrong, but the US will overtake both these nations very quickly in death toll.

So yeah, there is every indication that the US is in FAR worse shape compared to ANY*** other country out there.

Maybe China lied about their numbers***so who knows, but they are certainly in worse shape compared to Italy or Spain as contributor alluded to.






Confirmed

Deaths

Recovered


United States

362,108

10,677

18,940


Spain

135,032

13,169

40,437


Italy

132,547

16,523

22,837


Germany

101,214

1,622

25,280


China (mainland)

81,708

3,331

77,078


France

74,390

8,911

17,250


Iran

60,500

3,739

24,236


United Kingdom

51,608

5,373

-


Turkey

30,217

649

1,326


Switzerland

21,657

765

8,056


Belgium

20,814

1,632

3,986


Netherlands

18,803

1,867

-


Canada

16,487

321

3,493

Yes the USA has more cases than Spain and Italy combined, then again the USA has three times the population of Italy and Spain combined. Since nobody knows for sure how many people have the virus, and haven't been tested, I am going to be watching the death toll. If three times as many people die in the USA than in Spain and Italy combined, then
the USA, will have been harder hit than Spain and Italy.

[JamesB]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Yes the USA has more cases than Spain and Italy combined, then again the USA has three times the population of Italy and Spain combined. Since nobody knows for sure how many people have the virus, and haven't been tested, I am going to be watching the death toll. If three times as many people die in the USA than in Spain and Italy combined, then
the USA, will have been harder hit than Spain and Italy.

Yes people seem to forget that the US population is much larger and also need to look at what percentage of the population is getting tested. More testing equals more confirmed cases. While I agree that the US was slow to test, they are really upping their numbers now.
Also China's numbers have always been pretty untrustworthy, and India is doing virtually no testing.

[dowierjp]

Originally Posted by stringer

Your wrong he never called the virus a hoax here is the video to prove it
Enjoy



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G5TZ6fTYrsE


Cheers

Your a legend! Keep it up.

[MyAlberta]

Originally Posted by dowierjp

Your a legend! Keep it up.

Watched it, felt like a wave of retardation swept over me. I’m ok now.

[dowierjp]

Originally Posted by MyAlberta

Watched it, felt like a wave of retardation swept over me. I’m ok now.

Don’t worry, cheque’s are comin and big scary orange man gonna let some masks through after all.

[birdbeast]

I don't know if anyone has seen this but if you want accurate, as best as it is reported, daily information this site has it. It does comparisons by various markers.
I hope the link works. If not you can type in the search address.
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus

[EZM]

Originally Posted by MyAlberta

Watched it, felt like a wave of retardation swept over me. I’m ok now.

LOL …. I laughed so hard when I read that.

If you are unable to break away from listening to him, you get caught in the trace and become forever bound into servitude to him, as your brain gets slowly eaten away as you abandon all reason, reality and truth.

Kinda like all his supporters ….

LOL ….. just teasing !!!!!

[stringer]

Originally Posted by EZM

LOL …. I laughed so hard when I read that.

If you are unable to break away from listening to him, you get caught in the trace and become forever bound into servitude to him, as your brain gets slowly eaten away as you abandon all reason, reality and truth.

Kinda like all his supporters ….

LOL ….. just teasing !!!!!

When you can't defend your claim with facts one can allways resort to insults to distract
No suprise

Cheers

[birdbeast]

IMHO, Trump vs Trudeau is like saying is my left hand really different from my right hand.

[ward]

Originally Posted by birdbeast

IMHO, Trump vs Trudeau is like saying is my left hand really different from my right hand.

In most cases, one hand is more useful than the other. Maybe not in this case.

[ward]

Originally Posted by stringer

When you can't defend your claim with facts one can allways resort to insults to distract
No suprise

Cheers

I have no interest in getting into the warfare over Trump. But if you having been watching his updates live the last few days, there are definitely lacking in “facts”.

[Dan Foss]

Originally Posted by EZM

“In many cases the scarf is better; it’s thicker. I mean you can — depending on the material, it’s thicker,” the president said[/B][/I]

Compared to Trudeau's quote:

“It prevents you from breathing or speaking moistly on them,” Trudeau said, then instantly regretted.

Both are god-awful speakers. Watching Trudeau stumble through the above quote was painful. He even acknowledged right away that he sounded like an idiot.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Dan Foss

Compared to Trudeau's quote:



Both are god-awful speakers. Watching Trudeau stumble through the above quote was painful. He even acknowledged right away that he sounded like an idiot.

Yeah Trudeau is a donkey. He's Boy Band.

At least Trump is Heavy Metal …… enjoy ….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4u6...LhrTeWhMLCs0kQ

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...tail&FORM=VIRE

[elkhunter11]

I was channel surfing and saw Trudeau on the screen and it was mentioned that the virus has been effecting us for about four weeks, my first thought was that the virus has been effecting Canada for over four years.