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[skidderman]

I struggle with the definition of the term, (magnum). I used a chrono to get exact numbers from a 7mm, a 300wsm and a 3006. The 3006 with 180 grain bullet was 2740 fps. The 7mm with a 175 grain topped out at 2820 but that was pushing it. My 300 wsm did 2840. all of these were pretty much at max load using the Nosler book. So why is a 3006 not a magnum? I won't lose sleep over it but terms to me are often a puzzle.

[catnthehat]

The term magnum first came out with the belted cartridges IIRC, the 300 H&H, 375, etc.
With the advent of the short mags, etc, things got out of hand with the term.
However, the '06 never was considered a magnum in the pure definition - no belt.
Cat

[Lefty-Canuck]

I thought the term magnum also was used to denote a cartidge that had more powder capacity or was larger and more powerful than its predecessor ?

Like a .22mag, .357mag, etc.

LC

[Attilathecanuk]

A magnum cartridge is a firearm cartridge larger than, or derived from, a similar cartridge. A 30 06 was developed (in 1906) as a modern cartridge before WWI and then the 300 Winchester Magnum was made because someone wanted faster and louder and "better".

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I thought the term magnum also was used to denote a cartidge that had more powder capacity or was larger and more powerful than its predecessor ?

Like a .22mag, .357mag, etc.

LC

The term was coined long before those you mentioned, and was used to describe the belted magnums .
The reason was for the belt was for rimless carrtridges that could handle the newer high pressure type of smokeless powders as opposed to the huge rimmed cartridges like the 470 nitro, etc that were designed for double rifles.
Cat

[CaberTosser]

A Magnum is about enough Champagne for two women

Why don't any ammunition or firearms manufacturers step things up a bit from Magnums and make Methuselah cartridges?

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

The term magnum first came out with the belted cartridges IIRC, the 300 H&H, 375, etc.
With the advent of the short mags, etc, things got out of hand with the term.
However, the '06 never was considered a magnum in the pure definition - no belt.
Cat

That is my understanding as well.

[saskbooknut]

The term "Magnum" was, and is just advertising hype to sell another firearm or cartridge.

How's that for stirring the pot ?

[ACKLEY ABE]

I't more just a marketting tool these days. Magnum must be better right? The 7 mm Rem Mag is probably the best example of that in Rifle calibres. Remember, when the 280 first came out, they had to rename it to try and improve sales, to 7MM Express (and then of course back to 280).

....and the 280 only looses about 15 yards to a 7Rem mag...so looks like the Magnum designation does, in fact, work on people when it comes to buying a firearm, escpecially their first hunting rifle. "Can I kill an Elk at 500 yards with this?" Sure, but do you plan on practissing enough to hit accuratley an Elk at 500 yards? Like...hundreds of rds a year...

Magnums you don't have to practice... A fine gentleman that is no longer with us, Coffee Cup Don, for those of you who remember him...told me:

Yup that 7 Rem Mag is so fast and flat, that it goes out straight and level for 300 yards and then starts to rise a bit.....he was of course being facetious

By the way, I'd take the 30.06 with the 180 all the way. The larger frontal area is something that ppl seem to almost dismiss out of hand these days saying well it's only 24 thou larger. Yeah well a 7 Rem is only 20 thou larger than a 6 mm but apparently thats different.

"Well it all comes down to bullet placement"....yawn, how many times doe we hear that here. Of course it's true, but stating the obvious just makes me a little crazy.



Just like the new Didge Hemi's.. Helps Dodge sell vehicles, but it's just another run of the mill factory engine...not like the old and rare 426 Hemi's. Back then if it was a Hemi it actually was something.

I think we should come up with a new cartridge a 7 MM Hemi Magnum...doesn't have to do anything any better than any other cartridge, but I'll bet it would sell like hotcakes...I can see guys in Black Dodge pickups lined up for miles to buy one....

[sdeviation]

thought it had to do with gallon size wine containers so they adopted that
into the cartridge name
Dodge made a magnum too it was pretty big compared to the ladas,mgeez and fiats of the time...
maybe a hemispherical primer or sumting in that 7mm hemi mag

[Alberta Bigbore]

What makes me a little crazy... is those that say.. "why get a magnum if you dont have to?" Some of us enjoy recoil. Some of us shoot 30 rounds of 3 inch mag sabot slugs in a sitting, and only stopped as we run out of them

Understandable if its a first timers first rifle. Some of us can shoot the mags as accurate as some can shoot the non mags. But you have to remember, some people like variety, and some like to have they're teeth rattled at the same time. It only hurts off the bench anyways. LoL

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

A Magnum is about enough Champagne for two women

Why don't any ammunition or firearms manufacturers step things up a bit from Magnums and make Methuselah cartridges?

Don't tempt them. Cartridge names are as much about sales appeal as performance.

Grizz

[ACKLEY ABE]

Originally Posted by Alberta Bigbore

What makes me a little crazy... is those that say.. "why get a magnum if you dont have to?" Some of us enjoy recoil. Some of us shoot 30 rounds of 3 inch mag sabot slugs in a sitting, and only stopped as we run out of them

Understandable if its a first timers first rifle. Some of us can shoot the mags as accurate as some can shoot the non mags. But you have to remember, some people like variety, and some like to have they're teeth rattled at the same time. It only hurts off the bench anyways. LoL

True.. I have as many magnums as I do non-magnums and more than a few Improved cartridged firearms that could, in a broad context, be considered magnums sans da belt. But for the average new hunter, magnums are not generally a great choice.

Several years ago at the range, I had a guy approach me saying he couldn't keep a 12" group...at 37 yards (Phoenix Range).

So, I checked his rings, bases, etc and then walked him out to the range. I sat down and fiddled for a minute and then short stroked the bolt and told him I had loaded it and asked him to fire it.

He lifted the rifle a foot off the bags firing on an empty chambre......Was he afraid of his 300 mag....you bet. Fortunatly he understood my trickery and didn't get upset and said to me "I guess I have something to work on". I replied, yip, go grab your 22 and put a brick through it.

Nothin wrong with magnums and big boomers...if you can handle em.....but for heavens sake always remember....BRAKES ARE FOR TRUCKS......

[antmai]

Originally Posted by Alberta Bigbore

What makes me a little crazy... is those that say.. "why get a magnum if you dont have to?" Some of us enjoy recoil. Some of us shoot 30 rounds of 3 inch mag sabot slugs in a sitting, and only stopped as we run out of them

Understandable if its a first timers first rifle. Some of us can shoot the mags as accurate as some can shoot the non mags. But you have to remember, some people like variety, and some like to have they're teeth rattled at the same time. It only hurts off the bench anyways. LoL

True that! My .17HMR gives me a body rush each time that Accu-trigger let's me squeeze it! LOL
PS. Now I know why you bought yours!

[Alberta Bigbore]

Oh? I bought mine for gophers and long range grouse head shots. Is that what you figured? Lol

[Dick284]

What's in a name?
Like calling the biggest guy on your crew "Tiny"!

It effectively means nothing.

Magnum, magnum what?
Bottle, engine, shell length, pressure range, powder charge.

Over used, and seldom accurately used, just to facilitate sales!

The 30'06 is a SAAMI standard 50,000CUP cartridge
It's offspring like the 270Win, and 25'06, are 53,000-54,000CUP cartridges!
That 53,000CUP is the same pressure standard for the 7 em em Rem Mag!
24" bbl velocities from the real world on the 7 em em have shown 150gr factory ammo to be, 2950-3000fps, and 175 factories to be right around 2700fps!

If you want to live your life reading tables and labels that's cool, but the real world shows us that a table or label seldom does justice to what will work or not work.
How many can truthfully say they will ever benefit from a few extra fps? Let alone be capable of being repeatedly effective at distances where those few extra fps will be realized in the first place!

Run what ya brung, learn it trust it, and get good with it.

[6.5x47 lapua]

Originally Posted by Dick284

What's in a name?
Like calling the biggest guy on your crew "Tiny"!

It effectively means nothing.

Magnum, magnum what?
Bottle, engine, shell length, pressure range, powder charge.

Over used, and seldom accurately used, just to facilitate sales!

The 30'06 is a SAAMI standard 50,000CUP cartridge
It's offspring like the 270Win, and 25'06, are 53,000-54,000CUP cartridges!
That 53,000CUP is the same pressure standard for the 7 em em Rem Mag!
24" bbl velocities from the real world on the 7 em em have shown 150gr factory ammo to be, 2950-3000fps, and 175 factories to be right around 2700fps!

If you want to live your life reading tables and labels that's cool, but the real world shows us that a table or label seldom does justice to what will work or not work.
How many can truthfully say they will ever benefit from a few extra fps? Let alone be capable of being repeatedly effective at distances where those few extra fps will be realized in the first place!

Run what ya brung, learn it trust it, and get good with it.

ya nailed it.with the advent of the affordable chronograph to the masses the magnum term no longer has relevance.

[Alberta Bigbore]

Still.. some enjoy... pushing a big fat heavy bullet ... while rattling teeth....cuz they can.

I hope to push a moose or elk over with my .375ruger...because i can... and i enjoy shooting it too. Over kill ..maybe. but i love it. And ill enjoy a little more boom until im to old for it

With that said though... I enjoy my .243, but it doesnt give me the Holy Crap effect. Just use what you like to use and dont pick on others for using it. Just steer the new shooters to the light that it is wise to use something less dramatic than what the gun counter salesmen say or the magazine articles saying what you must have.

[antmai]

Originally Posted by Alberta Bigbore

Oh? I bought mine for gophers and long range grouse head shots. Is that what you figured? Lol

The recoil! Me too.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

The term was coined long before those you mentioned, and was used to describe the belted magnums .
The reason was for the belt was for rimless carrtridges that could handle the newer high pressure type of smokeless powders as opposed to the huge rimmed cartridges like the 470 nitro, etc that were designed for double rifles.
Cat

I understand that but notice I said ALSO used to refer....neither of the examples I have given are belted but they are labelled and considered magnums right?

LC

[philthygeezer]

My magnums have much bigger lead at modest velocities, eg. 250 grain .338 Win Mag, 300 grain .375 H&H and 500 grain .458 Win Mag.

[DCse7en]

Magnum means "big one".

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I understand that but notice I said ALSO used to refer....neither of the examples I have given are belted but they are labelled and considered magnums right?

LC

Yes, but in my earlier post I also stated that after the original belted magnums " then things got out of hand" and we have stuff like the 22WMR, 17HMR, 357mag,etc.
Cat

[CaberTosser]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ve...ttle_sizes.jpg

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Yes, but in my earlier post I also stated that after the original belted magnums " then things got out of hand" and we have stuff like the 22WMR, 17HMR, 357mag,etc.
Cat

I've always figured the difference between the .222 Rem. and the .222 Rem. Mag. was a bit of a hair splitter.

Grizz

[32-40win]

It does seem strange, in that the 375H&H nor the 300H&H were not sold as magnums to start with, and yet, everything else based on those cases, after them, was. Although H&H 1910 catalogue did have the "Magnum" & "Magnum Nitro" paradox guns. They did have a 275Magnum, 300 didn't exist yet ( was called 30Super when it did appear), and the 375 was a "Cordite Express", and the "Velopex" series Most everything else was an Express for a big cartridge, or a Nitro Express for the smokeless version.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by ACKLEY ABE

I't more just a marketting tool these days. Magnum must be better right? The 7 mm Rem Mag is probably the best example of that in Rifle calibres. Remember, when the 280 first came out, they had to rename it to try and improve sales, to 7MM Express (and then of course back to 280).

....and the 280 only looses about 15 yards to a 7Rem mag...so looks like the Magnum designation does, in fact, work on people when it comes to buying a firearm, escpecially their first hunting rifle. "Can I kill an Elk at 500 yards with this?" Sure, but do you plan on practissing enough to hit accuratley an Elk at 500 yards? Like...hundreds of rds a year...

Magnums you don't have to practice... A fine gentleman that is no longer with us, Coffee Cup Don, for those of you who remember him...told me:

Yup that 7 Rem Mag is so fast and flat, that it goes out straight and level for 300 yards and then starts to rise a bit.....he was of course being facetious

By the way, I'd take the 30.06 with the 180 all the way. The larger frontal area is something that ppl seem to almost dismiss out of hand these days saying well it's only 24 thou larger. Yeah well a 7 Rem is only 20 thou larger than a 6 mm but apparently thats different.

"Well it all comes down to bullet placement"....yawn, how many times doe we hear that here. Of course it's true, but stating the obvious just makes me a little crazy.



Just like the new Didge Hemi's.. Helps Dodge sell vehicles, but it's just another run of the mill factory engine...not like the old and rare 426 Hemi's. Back then if it was a Hemi it actually was something.

I think we should come up with a new cartridge a 7 MM Hemi Magnum...doesn't have to do anything any better than any other cartridge, but I'll bet it would sell like hotcakes...I can see guys in Black Dodge pickups lined up for miles to buy one....

Awesome post. So true.

[sns2]

Having said that, my next rifle will either be a 300 WBY MAGNUM or a 6.5x55. Dang, this schizophrenia sucks.

Best advice is get the gun you like and let er rip! Then get another... and another...

[baptiste_moose]

Originally Posted by ACKLEY ABE

I't more just a marketting tool these days. Magnum must be better right? The 7 mm Rem Mag is probably the best example of that in Rifle calibres. Remember, when the 280 first came out, they had to rename it to try and improve sales, to 7MM Express (and then of course back to 280).

....and the 280 only looses about 15 yards to a 7Rem mag...so looks like the Magnum designation does, in fact, work on people when it comes to buying a firearm, escpecially their first hunting rifle. "Can I kill an Elk at 500 yards with this?" Sure, but do you plan on practissing enough to hit accuratley an Elk at 500 yards? Like...hundreds of rds a year...

Magnums you don't have to practice... A fine gentleman that is no longer with us, Coffee Cup Don, for those of you who remember him...told me:

Yup that 7 Rem Mag is so fast and flat, that it goes out straight and level for 300 yards and then starts to rise a bit.....he was of course being facetious

By the way, I'd take the 30.06 with the 180 all the way. The larger frontal area is something that ppl seem to almost dismiss out of hand these days saying well it's only 24 thou larger. Yeah well a 7 Rem is only 20 thou larger than a 6 mm but apparently thats different.

"Well it all comes down to bullet placement"....yawn, how many times doe we hear that here. Of course it's true, but stating the obvious just makes me a little crazy.



Just like the new Didge Hemi's.. Helps Dodge sell vehicles, but it's just another run of the mill factory engine...not like the old and rare 426 Hemi's. Back then if it was a Hemi it actually was something.

I think we should come up with a new cartridge a 7 MM Hemi Magnum...doesn't have to do anything any better than any other cartridge, but I'll bet it would sell like hotcakes...I can see guys in Black Dodge pickups lined up for miles to buy one....

I love this!!!

I always thought a magnum was something that was just never gonna fit me!!

[huntinstuff]

But how do u kill something if you dont shoot a magnum cartridge?

Dont the boolits from non magnums just bounce off?