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  #31  
Old 07-29-2020, 07:20 PM
Nayr Nayr is offline
 
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For those who say no going to Edmonton, good, stay home, stop the spread. Like Justin said, smarten up, enough is enough. Do as your told.
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  #32  
Old 07-29-2020, 07:26 PM
sk270 sk270 is offline
 
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Well, there has been a great deal of research done in the last few months on mask wearing as it relates to Covid-19. The studies are easily accessible on-line so that people can read them and make up their own minds without even paying attention to the epidemiologists who say we should all be wearing masks indoors in public places.

However, it seems to me that this is a tempest in a teapot. All people are being asked to do is to wear a simple mask, and only indoors in public places. This is very far from the most difficult thing most of us have ever done for the common good.

I could understand the general upset if we were being asked to do something dangerous, painful, or even expensive. Wearing a simple mask is none of these things.
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  #33  
Old 07-29-2020, 07:33 PM
HVA7mm HVA7mm is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Nayr View Post
For those who say no going to Edmonton, good, stay home, stop the spread. Like Justin said, smarten up, enough is enough. Do as your told.
Please tell me that you weren't being serious, using Justin and smarten in the same sentence.
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  #34  
Old 07-29-2020, 07:50 PM
dgrimard dgrimard is offline
 
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Here are my 2 cents, you want to wear a mask go for it, do it properly etc.

Mandating it and having a 100$ fine is a complete money grab. If this would have been brought out at say the start of this mess then I would understand. 5 months later is not a reaction to a virus.

It is SJW sindrome, have to be seen as doing something doesn't matter if it is right or wrong.
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  #35  
Old 07-29-2020, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by dgrimard View Post
Here are my 2 cents, you want to wear a mask go for it, do it properly etc.

Mandating it and having a 100$ fine is a complete money grab. If this would have been brought out at say the start of this mess then I would understand. 5 months later is not a reaction to a virus.

It is SJW sindrome, have to be seen as doing something doesn't matter if it is right or wrong.
...and listeing to Iveson whine about how it should be a province responsibility to implement this got a little old after about the 4th time he cried about it
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  #36  
Old 07-29-2020, 08:06 PM
Outbound Outbound is offline
 
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Nevermind. Not worth it.
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  #37  
Old 07-29-2020, 08:16 PM
Nayr Nayr is offline
 
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Originally Posted by HVA7mm View Post
Please tell me that you weren't being serious, using Justin and smarten in the same sentence.
Lol,
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  #38  
Old 07-29-2020, 08:20 PM
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You’ll be reading about it in the news soon enough. People getting beat up for not wearing a mask, or beaten for telling someone to wear a mask. It’s not anout the masks. It’s about compliance. Compliance circa 1939.... bring on the brown shirt enforcers.
Uugh.

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  #39  
Old 07-29-2020, 08:50 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Nayr View Post
For those who say no going to Edmonton, good, stay home, stop the spread. Like Justin said, smarten up, enough is enough. Do as your told.
I can only hope you are being sarcastic, nobody in their right mind takes Trudeau seriously.
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  #40  
Old 07-29-2020, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by tullfan View Post
You’ll be reading about it in the news soon enough. People getting beat up for not wearing a mask, or
beaten for telling someone to wear a mask. It’s not about the masks. It’s about compliance.
Compliance circa 1939.... bring on the brown shirt enforcers.
Uugh.

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Yup, and then the next "Must have" will be getting vaccinated, followed by the "Must have" chip.
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  #41  
Old 07-29-2020, 09:02 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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Yup, and then the next "Must have" will be getting vaccinated, followed by the "Must have" chip.
Exactly! Another how far can we push people before they resist test. Personally, I will just spend my money elsewhere, where there is no such stupidity.
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  #42  
Old 07-29-2020, 09:14 PM
Pathfinder76 Pathfinder76 is offline
 
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Masks don’t work. Watch this short clip. Very telling.

https://youtu.be/BKa-tB0UR18
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  #43  
Old 07-29-2020, 09:31 PM
AlpineFlyFisher AlpineFlyFisher is offline
 
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I, and many others, will not comply.
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  #44  
Old 07-29-2020, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by HyperMOA View Post
I know. I just want her to be held accountable for her words. It would be almost worth being ticketed and taking it to court.
She seems to give out a LOT of conflicting advice.
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  #45  
Old 07-29-2020, 10:46 PM
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Why are they making a bylaw knowing it's "about education, not enforcement" while not even defining what a "mask" is? Old panties? A sock off my foot is good enough? Also the city says you can exempt yourself if you have a pre-exisiting physical, mental, or religious reason. So, like, anyone can recuse themselves from the bylaw obligation? Is there a court of "Official No-Mask Reasons?" So it's a wishy-washy "law" that they don't intend to enforce, that they make unenforceable by their own design and jargon, with no definition for compliance. Soooo....what's the point? It's the epitome of virtue signalling and I hate that science and policy should be reduced to blatant politicking.
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  #46  
Old 07-29-2020, 11:04 PM
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Is a white bandana racist? Can't be too sure in this climate.
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  #47  
Old 07-30-2020, 06:09 AM
JeanCretien JeanCretien is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
251 active cases in a city of 1,021,628. 0.025% of the population.

Of those 251, using Canada's numbers roughly 7% will die. (FWIW, I think 7% is an extremely high estimate)

17 people. 0.0016% of Edmonton's population.

Of those 17 people, how many are already knocking at death's door through old age or other serious health concerns? How many would have been taken out by the regular flu?

Thank you.
How many Albertans under 70 have died from Covid... how many under 40 without comobid factors... driving your car to pick up masks- check your odds. The GOA has the info if you are willing to look for it.


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  #48  
Old 07-30-2020, 08:09 AM
sk270 sk270 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanCretien View Post
Thank you.
How many Albertans under 70 have died from Covid... how many under 40 without comobid factors... driving your car to pick up masks- check your odds. The GOA has the info if you are willing to look for it.
I'm still not sure why people are so upset at having to wear a mask indoors in public places. Do you all smoke cigarettes while driving without your seat belts on? This was common years ago, but we know better now.

As a matter of prudence, I think we should base decisions on the overall picture of the disease rather than using statistics from the relatively small and isolated population of Alberta.

In any case, a recent study (https://www.nber.org/papers/w27597) shows that Covid-19 is far more dangerous than driving a car for people over the age of 34. The authors admit that there are problems determining the total number of infections and do their best to account for that. The differences are large, however.

Despite the tone of many posts on AO, I believe that it is immoral to write off that part of the population that is over 65 years of age, or whatever age you want to choose. Given the wealth of our nation, we should do our best for all age groups.

Besides, all you are being asked to do is to wear a mask. It is not painful, dangerous nor expensive.
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  #49  
Old 07-30-2020, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Exceptions:
Section 6 (c)
Persons unable to wear a face covering due to mental or physical concern or limitation; or protected ground under the Alberta Human Rights Act
http://sirepub.edmonton.ca/sirepub/c...0080528573.PDF

This pretty much nullifies the bylaw, all you have to do is say you have a concern about wearing a mask.

Any mask that attached over the ears gives me a terrible headache due to a dislocated jaw that never properly healed. I guess this means I don't have to wear a mask after all
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  #50  
Old 07-30-2020, 08:31 AM
sk270 sk270 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ghostguy6 View Post
http://sirepub.edmonton.ca/sirepub/c...0080528573.PDF

This pretty much nullifies the bylaw, all you have to do is say you have a concern about wearing a mask.

Any mask that attached over the ears gives me a terrible headache due to a dislocated jaw that never properly healed. I guess this means I don't have to wear a mask after all
There are plenty of masks that tie behind the head instead of hooking over the ears. Try a face shield since they may provide protection. Just trying to help out so you can protect yourself and others.
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  #51  
Old 07-30-2020, 08:48 AM
bobtodrick bobtodrick is offline
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Originally Posted by sk270 View Post
I'm still not sure why people are so upset at having to wear a mask indoors in public places. Do you all smoke cigarettes while driving without your seat belts on? This was common years ago, but we know better now.

As a matter of prudence, I think we should base decisions on the overall picture of the disease rather than using statistics from the relatively small and isolated population of Alberta.

In any case, a recent study (https://www.nber.org/papers/w27597) shows that Covid-19 is far more dangerous than driving a car for people over the age of 34. The authors admit that there are problems determining the total number of infections and do their best to account for that. The differences are large, however.

Despite the tone of many posts on AO, I believe that it is immoral to write off that part of the population that is over 65 years of age, or whatever age you want to choose. Given the wealth of our nation, we should do our best for all age groups.

Besides, all you are being asked to do is to wear a mask. It is not painful, dangerous nor expensive.
Exactly.
The good thing is that most people will comply and go about leading their lives.
On the whole the whiners are in the minority.
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  #52  
Old 07-30-2020, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ghostguy6 View Post
http://sirepub.edmonton.ca/sirepub/c...0080528573.PDF

This pretty much nullifies the bylaw, all you have to do is say you have a concern about wearing a mask.

Any mask that attached over the ears gives me a terrible headache due to a dislocated jaw that never properly healed. I guess this means I don't have to wear a mask after all
I agree that it will give people an out on masks. There is certainly no shortage of Albertans with mental limitations.
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  #53  
Old 07-30-2020, 08:56 AM
Brbpuppy Brbpuppy is offline
 
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Could a bandana be used in place of a mask?
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  #54  
Old 07-30-2020, 09:02 AM
sk270 sk270 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Brbpuppy View Post
Could a bandana be used in place of a mask?
I don't know if the authorities would accept it but I have seen some research that indicates a bandana is not as good as a mask because there is too much leakage.

Why wear a bandana when a mask is better? Multi-layer cloth masks are cheap and readily available.
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  #55  
Old 07-30-2020, 09:06 AM
32-40win 32-40win is offline
 
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Tried one at work yesterday for an hour or so. Glasses kept fogging up when reading the computer screen, the hot breath going down to the chest was not at all pleasant in the heat of the day, even with A/C in the counter area. It does force a person to speak loud and clear on the phone, which some people interpret as being hollered at. It makes very little sense to me as I work on a busy counter, have been all thru this, without a mask. We see people from all over the continent at that counter, have been all along.
All I can say is, along with other issues and conditions in that place, this may well be the end of that job for me next wk. It's just more suck than I am willing to put up with overall, pretty tolerant of a lot of krap, but, there is a limit.
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  #56  
Old 07-30-2020, 09:17 AM
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CMichaud CMichaud is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk270 View Post
I'm still not sure why people are so upset at having to wear a mask indoors in public places. Do you all smoke cigarettes while driving without your seat belts on? This was common years ago, but we know better now.

As a matter of prudence, I think we should base decisions on the overall picture of the disease rather than using statistics from the relatively small and isolated population of Alberta.

In any case, a recent study (https://www.nber.org/papers/w27597) shows that Covid-19 is far more dangerous than driving a car for people over the age of 34. The authors admit that there are problems determining the total number of infections and do their best to account for that. The differences are large, however.

Despite the tone of many posts on AO, I believe that it is immoral to write off that part of the population that is over 65 years of age, or whatever age you want to choose. Given the wealth of our nation, we should do our best for all age groups.

Besides, all you are being asked to do is to wear a mask. It is not painful, dangerous nor expensive.
1. It boils down to trust. Any time a government enacts legislation that impinges one's freedoms, a critical eye in required. In this case we have a municipal government enacting bylaws pertaining to what is essentially a global medical issue.

2. The efficacy of masks is in question. Neither Dr Tam nor Dr Hinshaw have directed that masks are required in all public places/private business. They have recommended them where maintaining 2 meters is not possible.

3. Credibility of experts is increasingly in question based on evolving science and data that is often conflicting and has thus resulted in conflicting recommendations. Dr Tam initially said masks were not effective and may be harmful. The head of the Dutch medical agency has expressed that masks are largely ineffective in the battle against COVID 19 as recently as yesterday.

4. The most "at risk" population based on the data appears to be the elderly and this is in hospitals and long term care facilities. Average age of death is 83. Out of 190 deaths, only 15 were under the age of 70. I believe most would agree that masking up in extended care homes and hospitals is best practice. I personally would extend this to aircraft, movie theatres, and sports events (the minimum 2 meter distance is unable to be maintained).

5. Seasonal flu in 2018/19 season(9 month duration) killed 52 Albertans. There were 7698 hospital diagnosed cases, 1976 people hospitalized, and 228 ICU admissions. At no point was the public instructed to wear masks and there seems to be no discussion about whether this is a requirement going forward.

6. There is a lack of trust in the media. Blame it on lazy journalism, excessive "opinion" and "analysis" columns, domestic politics (ie govt funded media). centralized private media ownership, foreign state actors, or C (all of the above). This creates mistrust and leaves the public questioning motives.

7. Lastly, and this is conjecture, as Canadians, I suspect that many see the wearing of masks outside of specific situations as surrendering to fear - the fear of death, the fear of the unknown, and fear of lack of control over this disease.
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Last edited by CMichaud; 07-30-2020 at 09:36 AM.
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  #57  
Old 07-30-2020, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Brbpuppy View Post
Could a bandana be used in place of a mask?
Absolutely, according to the bylaw a face covering is any medical or non medical mask that fully covers the face, nose and chin.
I could wear a military gas mask without any filters and still meet the definition.
The link I posted earlier seems to be down so they could be making changes already.
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  #58  
Old 07-30-2020, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by guysmiley View Post
Except schools... as they fall under provincial legislation my wife told me.



Seems stupid to not make it mandatory in places with hundreds of kids that all pick their noses...
They pick their nose and eat it while they are looking straight at me. Lol.

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  #59  
Old 07-30-2020, 09:28 AM
Scott h Scott h is offline
 
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Originally Posted by bobtodrick View Post
Exactly.
The good thing is that most people will comply and go about leading their lives.
On the whole the whiners are in the minority.
Almost all of them will comply. They'll mumble and groan and bitch on forums but they'll comply rather than get pointed out in public.
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  #60  
Old 07-30-2020, 09:32 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMichaud View Post
1. It boils down to trust. Any time a government enacts legislation that impinges one's freedoms, a critical eye in required. In this case we have a municipal government enacting bylaws pertaining to what is essentially a global medical issue.

2. The efficacy of masks is in question. Neither Dr Tam nor Dr Hinshaw have directed that masks are required in all public places/private business. They have recommended them where maintaining 2 meters is not possible.

3. Credibility of experts is increasingly in question based on evolving science and data that is often conflicting and has thus resulted in conflicting recommendations. Dr Tam initially said masks were not effective and may be harmful. The head of the Dutch medical agency has expressed that masks are largely ineffective in the battle against COVID 19 as recently as yesterday.

3. The most "at risk" population based on the data appears to be the elderly and this is in hospitals and long term care facilities. Average age of death is 83. Out of 190 deaths, only 15 were under the age of 70. I believe most would agree that masking up in extended care homes and hospitals is best practice. I personally would extend this to aircraft, movie theatres, and sports events (the minimum 2 meter distance is unable to be maintained).

4. Seasonal flu in 2018/19 season(9 month duration) killed 52 Albertans. There were 7698 hospital diagnosed cases, 1976 people hospitalized, and 228 ICU admissions. At no point was the public instructed to wear masks and there seems to be no discussion about whether this is a requirement going forward.

5. There is a lack of trust in the media. Blame it on lazy journalism, excessive "opinion" and "analysis" columns, domestic politics (ie govt funded media). centralized private media ownership, foreign state actors, or C (all of the above). This creates mistrust and leaves the public questioning motives.

6. Lastly, and this is conjecture, as Canadians, I suspect that many see the wearing of masks outside of specific situations as surrendering to fear - the fear of death, the fear of the unknown, and fear of lack of control over this disease.
Actually, many people see this restriction as nothing more than virtue signaling. The peak of the pandemic is over, and if masks were not required in the past, it's hard to justify why they would all of a sudden be a consideration now that things are getting back to normal. And the mistrust held by many people, is also based on the lack of trust for the Edmonton mayor and council.
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