A 500 Yard Gun

[spoiledsaskhunter]

......I've been around a loooong time, and hear guys talking about 500 yard shots like they're fairly routine. humour me, and take a little advice from an old timer..............if u are even THINKING of 500 yard shots at living targets, spend a super amount of time practicing and KNOW where the bullets are going to hit.

rarely do all the stars align in a way that an animal is standing perfectly, and offering you a kill shot. everything gets more complicated as the range increases, and you owe it to the animal to be able to do your part.

several calibers will do their part...............YOU NEED TO DO YOURS

[bsmitty27]

500y is a long way out there for me. I love my 6.5's and my 7mm08. If I was to shoot that far at game I feel the weak link would be me, over my 6.5 or 7mm. If I was looking between the 7mm08 and 7rem mag. I'd probably go 280 or class it up with a 7x64.
(I know where there is a sexy 7x64 if your interested, if I had extra cash it would be mine)

Magnumitis is cured by cartridges 100 years old or better!

Brad

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by bsmitty27

500y is a long way out there for me. I love my 6.5's and my 7mm08. If I was to shoot that far at game I feel the weak link would be me, over my 6.5 or 7mm. If I was looking between the 7mm08 and 7rem mag. I'd probably go 280 or class it up with a 7x64.
(I know where there is a sexy 7x64 if your interested, if I had extra cash it would be mine)

Magnumitis is cured by cartridges 100 years old or better!

Brad

I had a very nice 7x64 - sold it!
Cat

[duck duck goose]

Well, I finally had a chance to sit down with the wife and discuss this and guess what? She has no interest in rifle hunting! She wants a bow to get into the archery side of things. Oi vey... I guess that means two things, #1 I am getting a new 7 RM! and #2 Before I get that 7mm I get to buy her a bow haha. Thanks for all the input on calibers guys, I appreciate it.

[West O'5]

Originally Posted by duck duck goose

Good points guys. I definitely like Sako products, but we mostly backpack hunt so the option to go with a heavier gun to adjust for more recoil doesn't really work.

Any other suggestions in the 30 caliber range? Anyone have any experience with a 7mm 08 that would care to chime in?

Don't overlook 7mm-08,it's a very capable and often mistakenly underrated cartridge,sometimes dismissed and poopooed upon as a "ladies" or "youth" chambering.Low recoil and flat shooting,it will do anything a .308 will do and then some imho,and actually outperforms the .308 at long range given the inherent high BC and retained down range energy of 7mm pills.

[bb356]

Originally Posted by duck duck goose

Hey Guys,

It's looking like I may be investing in a new rifle this summer. With my priority points I am hoping to pull an elk tag this fall, and I might be heading to one of the western states for an antelope hunt. I was wondering what your thoughts would be for a gun that would be proficient out to the 500 yard mark and would have enough punch for the North American Big Game species.

I've been drooling over a 7 rem mag. but my wife will probably be using this gun as well. Do you think the 7 mm would be too much recoil for her? Is there a lighter caliber that could still get the job done? Any specific makes or models that you think I should take a look at? I know there are quite a few options, but was wondering if anyone had a favorite.

Thanks in advance!

Buy a .308 ... learn how how to hunt ... and all will be fine ... grab your old lady a 243 and learn how to hunt ... sheesh ... this 500yard carp is gettin old ... it's hunting not target practice .

[rwalker]

Originally Posted by 3blade

If you are shooting that far you better be very sure about the ballistics and especially the terminal effects of whatever projectile you choose, as that's where issues come up (at or around 500 yards). Commonly accepted minimum impact velocity of 1800 fps and energy of 1000 ft lbs for elk, though this varies depending on bullet, it's a decent guideline.

7-08 will get you there, and be easy on the wallet and the wife (now if one could find a wife that was easy on the wallet...I digress). So will any of the 6.5s but ammo is hard to find, 308 as well but the 7-08 shoots flatter and I'm not sure I'd let a smaller person use something heavier than 150 gr in 30 cal, in a light rifle. My vote is 7-08, good scope and a metric crap ton of range time. Probably find your desire for the RM will diminish.

+1 on this! The 7-08 is a superb cartridge and recoil is minor.

[West O'5]

Originally Posted by 3blade

If you are shooting that far you better be very sure about the ballistics and especially the terminal effects of whatever projectile you choose, as that's where issues come up (at or around 500 yards). Commonly accepted minimum impact velocity of 1800 fps and energy of 1000 ft lbs for elk, though this varies depending on bullet, it's a decent guideline.

7-08 will get you there, and be easy on the wallet and the wife (now if one could find a wife that was easy on the wallet...I digress). So will any of the 6.5s but ammo is hard to find, 308 as well but the 7-08 shoots flatter and I'm not sure I'd let a smaller person use something heavier than 150 gr in 30 cal, in a light rifle. My vote is 7-08, good scope and a metric crap ton of range time. Probably find your desire for the RM will diminish.

"Metric crap ton of range time"....lol,luv it!!
That goes for ANY rifle that you plan to shoot 500y+......or even 300+ for that matter.
It seems that too many people(not necessarily the OP?)have some misconception that magnums launch death missiles on a laser flat trajectory,when nothing could be further from the truth.Magnums start out with a faster MV.......that is all(well actually,to a certain extent are capable of launching heavier for caliber bullets as well),but they are still affected by the exact same laws of physics as a lowly patched round ball.
There's a METRIC CRAP TON of ballistics and environmental factors that must be fully understood,combined with MCT of range time before anybody has any bizness shooting at live game beyond 500y.

[Beeman3]

Always makes me laugh on the lectures when long range is discussed on here. Do you actually think guys replying to these threads are just shooting and hoping for the best??? They have the equipment and range time to take these shots. I personally think long range hunters are responsible. Maybe more so than just your regular guy. With todays rifles, optics and ballistic programs 500 yds is not that far, especially under the right conditions. To much wind you don't take the shot it's that simple.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

I wasn't trying to be humorous with a suggestion of 2 guns. With a single rifle, one of you will be compromising. Your wife may not enjoy a recoil tyat tou are comfortable with, a gun for her may have a shorter LOP, etc. Ladies are often not as compromising to the fit if a gun than a man is. Face it, if those shoes are not the exact shade of charteuse, the world is comimg to an end (no offence intended ladies). You likely have a different body frame than the missus (at least I hope so), her gun should produce less recoil and fit her nicely. Caliber wise, how about a 7RM for you and a 7-08 for the little lady?

I'd agree with this post 100%, so no point typing it again. I have one of each, and I carry the 7mm RM only when one of my kids is carrying the 7mm-08....otherwise I'm carrying it. If you're budget just doesn't allow both, I'd lean towards the 7mm RM, but in a heavier stock (laminate) with a nice Decelerator pad on it. That will make it very comfortable for your wife to shoot, as long as LOP is ok for her.

[Dick284]

Can't afford a his and hers..... save some more money!

Don't forget that you'll spend nearly the same coin on your optics as you will the rifle.

As for the cartridge well .260, 7-08, 270, 280, .284, 308, 30-06, there's no need for a magnum in this situation.

A .260 for her, and a .280 for you, would be my set point.

[Nyksta]

308 is perfect imo. Minor recoil, largest bore/case size of the considered cartridges resulting in the shortest barrel efficiency of the bunch resulting in a nice light and well balanced rifle with cheap easy to find ammo. Every other cartridge will work fine but every other cartridge introduces other aspects that are negative in my opinion. The more overbore you get the longer the barrel you need making a whippy unbalanced gun.

[JD848]

When your a new shooter and all pump up and your hearts racing ,breathing is twice as fast,willow ,small 4 foot trees,wind or no wind 500 is out there,sure there are lotsa new toys out there,I pound a 10 inch gong at 600 all day long with just 223, but it's not the same thing. and it's not alive .A 7mm rem mag is enough gun for anyone.sure you can add breaks and carry a lead sled and do whatever you can to tame it.

But before you run in life you have to learn to walk and it all takes time to be good at something specially shooting and hunting ,learn to be good up to 300 then decide on 500 a lot happens if you are new at shooting in them last 200 yards,so buy what you decide and put good optics on and practice and save up for another,if you can buy them both all the better,if you learn bad shooting habits some can stay for life ,so if you have a friend that's good at it all the better .If not don't be afraid to ask someone.

Every guy I know tells me there good shooters and swear on it ,that's the part that scary after hunting with people from all over this planet I have seen some real side shows,after 45 years I am still learning new things so start slow and proper and both you and your wife will enjoy a great life together doing this great sport that never ends.ALL THE BEST

RON

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by duck duck goose

I see where you are coming from and I agree, we would be compromising with only one gun, but paying for two guns is also not an option right now so we are going to have to make that compromise. Unless someone has a smoking two-for-one deal on rifles

I will probably end up going with a lighter caliber for now and the magnum will have to wait a bit longer still.

Glad you see my point. In that case, why not go for the time tested 30-06.

[HuntinGuy]

I like 7 rem mag for moose/elk out that far, mines set up for 600 with 168g

I'm looking into a 260 for deer sized game out to 600 with 140's.

280 is the perfect do everything gun in my opinion..


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[Speckle55]

Any of these

Cartridge
Maximum effective range[35]
7.62×39mm
600 m
5.56×45mm
600 m [36]
7.62×51mm (.308 Winchester)
800 m
7.62×54mm R
800 m
.30-06 Springfield
800 m
7 mm Remington Magnum
900–1,100 m
.300 Winchester Magnum
900–1,200 m
.338 Lapua Magnum
1,200-1,500 m
.50 BMG (12.7×99mm NATO)
12.7×108mm (Russian)
1,500–2,000 m
14.5×114mm
1,800–2,300




here is what my Mentee used my 7mm Mag n a 300 Mag(her's father in-law) ..7mm has a BDC system

[West O'5]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Any of these

Cartridge
Maximum effective range[35]
7.62×39mm
600 m
5.56×45mm
600 m [36]

Seriously??

[bighorn1]

lets not all get bent out of shape on the long range thing here, i was raised in sask and 500 yards was just a normal day at the ranch.

i did it many times and very effectively with the good old 270, you don't need a cannon.... you just need to put it in the right spot

[Salavee]

As the OP was looking for a caliber/cartridge that would be consistently reliable as an effective 500 yd Elk killer there seems to be a lot of options available. From what I see here, if the maximum range was reduced to 300 yds most of them would meet that criteria under the right conditions.
Range estimation can be misleading as well. Many times I have seen a 4-500 yd range estimate turn out to be 300 yd or less under a variety of atmospheric and field conditions.
No doubt, any bullet that can reach 500 yds could conceivably kill a large game animal at that distance. To do this reliably and consistently is by far another matter. The wrong choice of shot/payload at that distance will definitely result in many more failures than most would care to admit whereby the occasional success gets all the attention.
Reality will set in sooner or later... 500 yds is much too far for all but a few
accomplished field shooters with the proper large game gear .. and I'm not one of them so no need to flame

[Sashi]

Get your self a good 270 win, both you and your wife will be very happy and ammo is plentiful, at anyplace that sells ammunition.

[duck duck goose]

Ok guys, before this gets too off topic, let's just say for the record that this is not my first rifle, and I understand that practice, and shot placement are paramount above all else to ethically harvest any animal, and that goes far beyond caliber choice or shooting distance. I am also not here to have the long-range/short-range debate as there are plenty of threads doing that already. I have set a goal for myself to be a proficient shooter at a range of 500 yards and that is my decision.

The reason for this conversation is that I am looking discuss the performance of the various calibers at range. I don't have the funds to buy a full armament of rifles and so I am looking for a good compromise caliber big game rifle. Something that carries enough energy to be effective at the 500 yd mark, without blowing your arm off in the process.

Although this is not my first rodeo, I also recognize that the combined knowledge of the folks on this forum far surpasses my own, and I am hoping to take advantage of that to make an informed purchase. Now to get back to the task at hand...

With the recommendations coming for the 7mm 08 I am kind of stuck between that, and the 7 RM. For the guys experienced shooting either of these platforms, how do you find wind affects trajectory in either platform? Do you think there would be a noticeable difference between the heavier 7 RM bullet over the 08?

[duck duck goose]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Any of these Cartridge

Nice buck Speckle!

[HuntinGuy]

Originally Posted by duck duck goose

With the recommendations coming for the 7mm 08 I am kind of stuck between that, and the 7 RM. For the guys experienced shooting either of these platforms, how do you find wind affects trajectory in either platform? Do you think there would be a noticeable difference between the heavier 7 RM bullet over the 08?

Those are both great choices, I'm just wondering why you are not considering the middle man 7mm 280 rem? For elk I think 160's would be the best bet for the 7mm-08 but you can lack velocity with them .. a 280 will get you where you need to be with 160's. 140-150's have good velocity in the 7mm-08 but lack in BC for long shots to have good energy at the target. 7RM is better but it's not really needed if you don't want the recoil. Ammo selection is not as good as the little 7 and big 7 but when I used to shoot one I did not have a problem finding what I wanted. Either way has its advantages!


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[duck duck goose]

Originally Posted by HuntinGuy

Those are both great choices, I'm just wondering why you are not considering the middle man 7mm 280 rem? For elk I think 160's would be the best bet for the 7mm-08 but you can lack velocity with them .. a 280 will get you where you need to be with 160's. 140-150's have good velocity in the 7mm-08 but lack in BC for long shots to have good energy at the target. 7RM is better but it's not really needed if you don't want the recoil. Ammo selection is not as good as the little 7 and big 7 but when I used to shoot one I did not have a problem finding what I wanted. Either way has its advantages!


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Hmmm I never really thought of the 280. I just looked up the ballistic charts and it does fly a bit flatter than the 7mm 08. Wind drift is way better as well and being as it is based on the 30.06 it's still not going to beat you up too badly. You might be on to something here HuntinGuy

[HuntinGuy]

Originally Posted by duck duck goose

Hmmm I never really thought of the 280. I just looked up the ballistic charts and it does fly a bit flatter than the 7mm 08. Wind drift is way better as well and being as it is based on the 30.06 it's still not going to beat you up too badly. You might be on to something here HuntinGuy

Only reason I don't shoot one anymore is because I have a designated moose/elk rifle (7RM) and will have a designated deer rifle (260 rem) 280 is just right in the middle no use for it.


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[duck duck goose]

Originally Posted by HuntinGuy

Only reason I don't shoot one anymore is because I have a designated moose/elk rifle (7RM) and will have a designated deer rifle (260 rem) 280 is just right in the middle no use for it.


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Cool, that sounds like a good way to go. I think I am just going to watch the three calibers (7RM, 7-08, and 280) and whichever caliber comes up in a good deal first is going to determine what I go with.

[Nyksta]

Originally Posted by duck duck goose

Cool, that sounds like a good way to go. I think I am just going to watch the three calibers (7RM, 7-08, and 280) and whichever caliber comes up in a good deal first is going to determine what I go with.

All of those are expensive to feed just so you know... you might want to check out major dealers for what you can expect to buy ammo for. If you are satisfied with 280 rem, 270 is almost identical and much cheaper i believe.

I would say that 280 rem is about 1% better than 270, but you will find 100 boxes of 270 for every 1 box of 280 you find, and cheaper at that.

[KodiakHntr]

Originally Posted by duck duck goose

Cool, that sounds like a good way to go. I think I am just going to watch the three calibers (7RM, 7-08, and 280) and whichever caliber comes up in a good deal first is going to determine what I go with.

If I had to guess, I would say that the .284 caliber is going to come up first of those three........

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by duck duck goose

Ok guys, before this gets too off topic, let's just say for the record that this is not my first rifle, and I understand that practice, and shot placement are paramount above all else to ethically harvest any animal, and that goes far beyond caliber choice or shooting distance. I am also not here to have the long-range/short-range debate as there are plenty of threads doing that already. I have set a goal for myself to be a proficient shooter at a range of 500 yards and that is my decision.

The reason for this conversation is that I am looking discuss the performance of the various calibers at range. I don't have the funds to buy a full armament of rifles and so I am looking for a good compromise caliber big game rifle. Something that carries enough energy to be effective at the 500 yd mark, without blowing your arm off in the process.

Although this is not my first rodeo, I also recognize that the combined knowledge of the folks on this forum far surpasses my own, and I am hoping to take advantage of that to make an informed purchase. Now to get back to the task at hand...

With the recommendations coming for the 7mm 08 I am kind of stuck between that, and the 7 RM. For the guys experienced shooting either of these platforms, how do you find wind affects trajectory in either platform? Do you think there would be a noticeable difference between the heavier 7 RM bullet over the 08?

Wise question my friend. And the answer is YES. The 7mm-08's optimal bullet weight is 139 or 140 grain. Whereas the 7mmRM benefits from a heavier bullet such as a 175 grain projectile. Obviously, they will behave differently. Years ago, before I ventured in the game of benchrest and F class shooting, I always chose to go out and shoot when there was no wind (I have my private shooting range in my backyard). Once I ventured into the target shooting sports, I soon realized the effects of wind and that in order to be in the money crowd, I had to hone my skills at wind reading and "steering" the bullet on target. As it is now, when a normal wind comes around, it's shooting time. I say "normal" because we often get winds of such velocity that they can tip tractor trailers over", and I stay in the house on those days. I reserve days of "no wind" strictly for load development. Sure, you can get ballistic charts and computer programs to provide hold over for wind conditions. But these are theoretical and the caveat is that you have to get real good at wind speed estimation. To summarize it, and to quote an old saying...there is no better experience than trigger time in such conditions.

Edit: I'd like to add that there are some good books out there on the skills of wind reading and adjusting. One of the best is authored by a couple of Canadian shooters. That particular one teaches you to read wind velocity by foliage, and mirage. I have it but not at my disposal right now, else I'd give you the title.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Nyksta

All of those are expensive to feed just so you know... you might want to check out major dealers for what you can expect to buy ammo for. If you are satisfied with 280 rem, 270 is almost identical and much cheaper i believe.

I would say that 280 rem is about 1% better than 270, but you will find 100 boxes of 270 for every 1 box of 280 you find, and cheaper at that.

Excellent point and well worth consideration. The .280 will benefit by a hair margin to a handloader. The.270 with the same bullet weight has a slightly higher SD. For all intents and purposes they are ballistically identical.