all around sporting dog (breed debate)

[Teagan]

I would first ask what type of hunting do you do mostly then select the dog best suited.

I started out hunting in mostly duck and goose country I had two labs loved them both both great dogs.

I moved to a location that lends itself to more upland hunting so I switch to GSP's and currently have two . Yet when I want to shot ducks they love to retrieve so back to my initial point buy what works best based on what you like to do. Even climate should be a consideration.

My two cents

[elkhunter11]

The title does specify "all around" which to me indicates that the dog needs to be capable of retrieving our largest geese, swimming in our rivers and lakes in late season, and handling our way below freezing late season temperatures, as well as being good at hunting all upland birds. So if a dog can't handle retrieving geese weighing 13lbs or more, or it can't handle -20C, it wouldn't be a good choice for an "all around" hunting dog in Alberta.

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The title does specify "all around" which to me indicates that the dog needs to be capable of retrieving our largest geese, swimming in our rivers and lakes in late season, and handling our way below freezing late season temperatures, as well as being good at hunting all upland birds. So if a dog can't handle retrieving geese weighing 13lbs or more, or it can't handle -20C, it wouldn't be a good choice for an "all around" hunting dog in Alberta.

Good point. It does kind of cut out the very short haired dogs.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Tactical Lever

Good point. It does kind of cut out the very short haired dogs.

And some of the very small dogs.

[wwbirds]

it is like the blond vs. brunette vs. redhead argument. all can be trained to a certain extent, some are not suitable for every purpose but try telling a guy his color is not as good as your color. Biggest failing I see is on the handlers not doing the proper research, knowing exactly what they want the dog for and finding that particular dog instead of settling for something that is not suitable for them. There are no bad dogs just bad handlers.

[wildside2014]

Lots of obvious owner bias on this thread but its understandable.

I run a Chesapeake, but if you want a real all around dog its not what I would personally recommend.

Ive shot birds over a lot of different breeds and heres my own experience.

Britts......not a chance if you want a goose dog. GSP's, ive personally seen fold the tent during mid October water AND even field hunts. Even the wire haired versions I wouldn't say are true 'versatiles' in Alberta Canada.

Lab would be a good choice, but if you truly want a waterfowl dog that actually excels on upland....Id say a well bred field bred Golden should be the breed you really look at. Its fact they have a better nose than both labs and chesapeakes. Chesapeakes are well known to be the best visual markers for distance retrieves, labs are second, goldens id say are third. BUT, goldens hands down have the best noses of the three and work upland birds a little more like Springers.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by wildside2014

Lots of obvious owner bias on this thread but its understandable.

I run a Chesapeake, but if you want a real all around dog its not what I would personally recommend.

Ive shot birds over a lot of different breeds and heres my own experience.

Britts......not a chance if you want a goose dog. GSP's, ive personally seen fold the tent during mid October water AND even field hunts. Even the wire haired versions I wouldn't say are true 'versatiles' in Alberta Canada.

Lab would be a good choice, but if you truly want a waterfowl dog that actually excels on upland....Id say a well bred field bred Golden should be the breed you really look at. Its fact they have a better nose than both labs and chesapeakes. Chesapeakes are well known to be the best visual markers for distance retrieves, labs are second, goldens id say are third. BUT, goldens hands down have the best noses of the three and work upland birds a little more like Springers.

I keep hearing that labs handle the cold better than the wire haired dogs, but personal experience has shown me that this isn't necessarily the case. My Drahthaar, who sleeps in the house, has been out at -32, and he was happily playing in the snow, while a friends lab, wanted nothing more than to go in the house. While I was on vacation, my pup boarded with labs and golden retrievers, and the person looking after the dogs mentioned the same thing, my dog was happily playing in the snow ,while the other dogs were trying to walk on two feet, and wanted very much to get in out of the cold.

[wildside2014]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I keep hearing that labs handle the cold better than the wire haired dogs, but personal experience has shown me that this isn't necessarily the case. My Drahthaar, who sleeps in the house, has been out at -32, and he was happily playing in the snow, while a friends lab, wanted nothing more than to go in the house. While I was on vacation, my pup boarded with labs and golden retrievers, and the person looking after the dogs mentioned the same thing, my dog was happily playing in the snow ,while the other dogs were trying to walk on two feet, and wanted very much to get in out of the cold.

theres exceptions to everything in my experience. Heck I shot with a guy that runs GSP a couple seasons ago and his GSP kept up to my Chessie on a November water shoot for the most part! But averaging my experiences out, I stand by my post. Much like how my Chesapeake has been the easiest dog to train ive ever had, and is by far the friendliest! Again, exceptions to every 'rule'.

[wildside2014]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I keep hearing that labs handle the cold better than the wire haired dogs, but personal experience has shown me that this isn't necessarily the case. My Drahthaar, who sleeps in the house, has been out at -32, and he was happily playing in the snow, while a friends lab, wanted nothing more than to go in the house. While I was on vacation, my pup boarded with labs and golden retrievers, and the person looking after the dogs mentioned the same thing, my dog was happily playing in the snow ,while the other dogs were trying to walk on two feet, and wanted very much to get in out of the cold.

I must also follow up by saying that there is a MASSIVE difference between handling snow covered fields (your example above) and handling November waters. Night and day, and how a dog reacts to being outside, at home on a cold day has absolutely nothing to do with field performance. My Chesapeake HATES me leaving him outside in the cold when I'm home. He wants to pee, and come in. But when it comes to hunting.....he will put himself into hypothermia and drown before he even considers calling it a day

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by wildside2014

I must also follow up by saying that there is a MASSIVE difference between handling snow covered fields (your example above) and handling November waters. Night and day, and how a dog reacts to being outside, at home on a cold day has absolutely nothing to do with field performance. My Chesapeake HATES me leaving him outside in the cold when I'm home. He wants to pee, and come in. But when it comes to hunting.....he will put himself into hypothermia and drown before he even considers calling it a day

I don't necessarily buy into the idea that being willing to hunt until he suffers from hypothermia is proof that a dog is suitable to hunt in the cold. Being willing to do something isn't the same as being safely able to do something.

[wildside2014]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I don't necessarily buy into the idea that being willing to hunt until he suffers from hypothermia is proof that a dog is suitable to hunt in the cold. Being willing to do something isn't the same as being safely able to do something.

ok...youre right. A wire haired Griffon is literally able to handle the same conditions as a Chesapeake bay retriever. My bad. Carry on

[Bobbydee]

tough to beat the intelligence, loyalty, beauty and temperament of a Labrador retriever.

[bcpappy]

Another vote for the lab. I have two chocolates, the one is a growing pup and the other has hunted the mountains for sheep and bear with me in B.C., Grouse everywhere, fowl in small ponds to big lakes. When she was young she would handle breaking ice with her paws to get late season ducks. In the last couple of years I don't hunt the late season anymore, she still wants to hunt but I don't want to be hard on her. My kids have fun with both dogs and both dogs get along with other dogs. I'm not even close to being good at training dogs but labs make it easy.

[madluk18]

Labrador Retriever. Got my first dog 2.5 years ago now. Black lab from Razor labs in Manitoba. Very smart dog. Picked up everything I taught him with ease. Waterfowl and upland hunting. He has incredible instinct and drive for both. An incredible nose, there is nothing that gets past him.

I think you have to consider more then just the breed of the dog. Like with anything the possibility of getting a "lemon" is always there. My uncle has a lab that is scared of geese and doesn't like jumping in the water.

I think if you do your part and properly train your dog that you will succeed with whatever you get to an extent. Like people have been saying a lot of it depends on your focus and what you'll mainly be hunting.

[M.C. Gusto]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I keep hearing that labs handle the cold better than the wire haired dogs, but personal experience has shown me that this isn't necessarily the case. My Drahthaar, who sleeps in the house, has been out at -32, and he was happily playing in the snow, while a friends lab, wanted nothing more than to go in the house. While I was on vacation, my pup boarded with labs and golden retrievers, and the person looking after the dogs mentioned the same thing, my dog was happily playing in the snow ,while the other dogs were trying to walk on two feet, and wanted very much to get in out of the cold.

That has absolutely no merit when comparing breeds. Some dogs are just sucks. Ive had dogs out of the same litter that were night and day difference.

[M.C. Gusto]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

i used to have a lab that could point. she was never a sporting dog but if she walked up on a bird by accident she would point and wait for a flush command.

so i'd like to get a good all round sporting dog. it doesn't have to be the best at anything but ok at most things and a good companion dog too.

would you go with a retriever so it has the weight to take down a goose and retrieve it but hope it can do some upland or a big pointer like a gsp or something and hope it can goose hunt?

Between myself and family we had had quite a few hunting dogs (ESS, PP GWP/DD's, EP, Chessie,s) and the answer to your question has nothing to do with the breed of the dog you choose, its the breeder. All the dogs above came from good breeding stock with champions in the pedigree and the difference between all of them was'nt much at all. As for hunting in cold weather. Will you really be hunting in -25? DO you really need a dog that breaks ice to retrieve? If thats the case you can eliminate most of the short hairs. I will say this though, I have had way more problems with dogs overheating in Sept and Oct than freezing. So consider that.

[ward]

Originally Posted by M.C. Gusto

Between myself and family we had had quite a few hunting dogs (ESS, PP GWP/DD's, EP, Chessie,s) and the answer to your question has nothing to do with the breed of the dog you choose, its the breeder. All the dogs above came from good breeding stock with champions in the pedigree and the difference between all of them was'nt much at all. As for hunting in cold weather. Will you really be hunting in -25? DO you really need a dog that breaks ice to retrieve? If thats the case you can eliminate most of the short hairs. I will say this though, I have had way more problems with dogs overheating in Sept and Oct than freezing. So consider that.

Good point, hunting season is two months old before cold becomes an issue. The only temperature related concerns I ever had with my Lab were warm Sept. and Oct. days.

[fish_e_o]

anyone have a recommendation for breeders and what to look for in a pup?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by ex811

Just don't get this guy...
Likes his job a little too much.

Proof of sex?

[SamSteele]

If geese were off the table I would suggest a Toller as an option, but at 40-50 lbs full grown they aren't likely going to bring back a goose. Even if its stone dead. Our toller is a bit of a clown (WWBirds can corroborate my story here) but he's a fun dog and pretty "birdy". At 40 lbs he won't keep up with an 80-100 lb lab/chessie by the end of the day though. But he's a lot easier to fit into our vehicle and home!

SS

[Stonegoat]

Standard Poodle. Great retrievers and phenomenal trackers.

[Fwee6]

Originally Posted by bcpappy

Another vote for the lab. I have two chocolates, the one is a growing pup and the other has hunted the mountains for sheep and bear with me in B.C., Grouse everywhere, fowl in small ponds to big lakes. When she was young she would handle breaking ice with her paws to get late season ducks. In the last couple of years I don't hunt the late season anymore, she still wants to hunt but I don't want to be hard on her. My kids have fun with both dogs and both dogs get along with other dogs. I'm not even close to being good at training dogs but labs make it easy.

100% agree, same here!

[madluk18]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

anyone have a recommendation for breeders and what to look for in a pup?

Razor Labs in Manitoba.

[Sundog57]

A Lab or perhaps a Lab, or maybe a Lab.
However - buying a "Lab" is a bit like buying a "Honda"
Could be anything from a roto-tiller to a Formula 1 race car
Decide what you want from your dog, then choose the breeder accordingly.
Not everyone wants or needs a full bore field trial dog, but when you see a good one its hard to comprehend how good they can actually be.
Try to stay away from anything coming from show titles or called "dual purpose"

[ex811]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Proof of sex?

The smile says it all...

[aulrich]

Because it must be said.

Clumber Spaniel

A lab is the dog equivalent of a 30-06 it works over a broad spectrum of tasks. But just like guns there will be times when other things out perform at certain tasks.

So it really depends on your usage.

For me there are too many dogs and not enough time

And if it matters, I run a Large Munsterlander love him would get another if I have a chance.