Compare bush guns 45-70 vs 9.3X57

alpining · #1 03-22-2012, 09:31 AM

I'd like your help considering options for a short-barrel heavy caliber open sight rig for short range moose and bear hunting. I reload. I like the idea of the sporterized M96 9.3X57 you can find for around $250 (TradeEx Canada), but I'd want to shorten it to around a 20" barrel to make it more bush-friendly. With the additional cost of cutting, recrowning and re-mounting a front sight, I'm wondering if I'd just be better off going with a stock off-the-shelf 45-70 Marlin guide gun. I'm not really concerned about action type or magazine type or finish or workmanship. I do care about cost, handiness, practicality, packability, and bullet performance (under 100m).

Sure, they're completely different animals, but they're the only options I could find that would serve my purposes in this price range. So, while I'm really interested in your thoughts on comparing these two options, I'm also open to other suggestions (at $500 or less, the current sale price for the 1895G). For example, I guess another possibility would be to get a 20" rifled barrel with some decent rifle sights for my 12ga 870 pump. But honestly I have next to no experience with slug guns so I don't know if it's a good option for me. Also, slugs are expensive, and I can't reload them.

Any advice is appreciated...

fordtruckin · #2 03-22-2012, 01:01 PM

ever thought of a .450 marlin?

6tmile · #3 03-22-2012, 05:31 PM

I own both of the mentioned. They are both alot of fun for shooting, but as for ammo availabity the 45/70 wins unless u reload. I wood honestly pick(and usually do) the guide gun.

bb356 · #4 03-22-2012, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordtruckin

ever thought of a .450 marlin?

This guy is worth a chuckle !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZIIV0AO9E4

noelb · #5 03-22-2012, 06:50 PM

I currently own the marlin GBL and previously owned an origional Marlin 1895G. Very versatilte cartridge. With a little practice and the hornady leverevolution ammunition you can be effective out to 300m. (havn't tried that range with conventional bullets). Lots of reloading options. Strong action capable of handling some very hot loads Fairly light, and easy handling. Lots of after market add-on's available to customize the rifle. I have mine set up with a leupold FX II IER 2.5 x 28 scout scope mounted forward on the XS site sytstems scout rail with the XS ghost ring as back up.

Word of caution. Some of the newer Remington made marlins have cycling issues. (I returned my first GBL as it wouldn't eject). It would be wise to run a few snap caps through any potential rifles you might be interested in.

catnthehat · #6 03-22-2012, 06:58 PM

I've shot both and it's pretty much a crap shoot.
Pick the one you want and have fun with it!
The '98 actioned light sporter I had in 9.3X57 was a very accurate rifle, but no more accurate in the bush than a 45/70 would be.
I'd be picking the bolt gun for the simplicity of service with it.
Cat

Woodbeef · #7 03-22-2012, 07:20 PM

Husqvarna Sporting Rifles were built on new recievers,not sporterized military ones. I had a HVA Model 46 that was cut down to 20",was a real nice bush gun.

dogslayer403 · #8 03-22-2012, 10:01 PM

If you go with the 45/70 you can pack a few 410 shells as well for chickens a nice little bonus then chickens or bears you got the medicine

fordtruckin · #9 03-22-2012, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bb356

This guy is worth a chuckle !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZIIV0AO9E4

lol thats filmed about 50 miles from where I live. Kinda funny cause that guy also gives fly fishing tutorials on youtube.

jungleboy · #10 03-22-2012, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogslayer403

If you go with the 45/70 you can pack a few 410 shells as well for chickens a nice little bonus then chickens or bears you got the medicine

careful on that ... I have heard of a 410 in a 444 but not a 45 70 ...If I'm wrong i wrong but I would research that before I did something crazy.

sinawalli · #11 03-23-2012, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jungleboy

careful on that ... I have heard of a 410 in a 444 but not a 45 70 ...If I'm wrong i wrong but I would research that before I did something crazy.

I've shot tons of .410's thjrough my 45-70! No problem!

209x50 · #12 03-23-2012, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bb356

This guy is worth a chuckle !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZIIV0AO9E4

Well he is safe if he gets attacked by a 5 gallon pal full of water.

alpining · #13 03-23-2012, 07:46 AM

Thanks for the advice here, gents. Seems like the consensus is that it's a toss-up for my purposes.

I'll have to do some research on the 1895 to see if the new production models can be made to run reliably. I'll also have to price out the exact cost of shortening the sporterized m96.

alpining · #14 03-23-2012, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordtruckin

ever thought of a .450 marlin?

Is it really that much of an improvement over the 45-70? I tend to admire venerable cartridges over the latest and greatest, but I know nothing about this one.

450Marlin · #15 03-23-2012, 07:58 AM

I bought a Marlin in .450 and love it, I have never shot a 45-70 so all I have to go by is what I have read and that is that the .450 is roughly packing 1.5 the punch of the 45-70 with equal bullet weight. 45-70 is definately a beauty though!

Takmaster · #16 03-23-2012, 08:37 AM

I have had my 45/70 1895 for 7 years now and love it! You hand-load so you can match the performance of the 450marlin. I have had issues with the leverevolution bullets separating. I prefer a cast 405 grain linotype lead bullet. Works well on everything I have shot with it. My gun is rigged up with a Williams peep rear sight and a tru-glo front post for easy acquisition. She shoots dead on out to about 100m. I love shooting this gun, is so much fun and cheap and easy to reload.

u_cant_rope_the_wind · #17 03-23-2012, 09:56 AM

model 94 chambered in 30-30, or find a good old 1873 chambered in 45-90

Hornaholic · #18 03-23-2012, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinawalli

I've shot tons of .410's thjrough my 45-70! No problem!

Huh I never knew that ; gonna check it out for sure!!

Hornaholic · #19 03-23-2012, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hornaholic

Huh I never knew that ; gonna check it out for sure!!

What does it do to the rifling?

stuckeyman · #20 03-23-2012, 10:51 AM

I ordered a Winchester 1886 in a 45-70 20" barrel. They also sell them in a 45-90. It's on back order and I was told could take up to 8 months to come in. I've done research and in my opinion I would rather wait and pay more money to get exactly what I want than buy one that's questionsable.

Just something to consider.

sinawalli · #21 03-23-2012, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuckeyman

I ordered a Winchester 1886 in a 45-70 20" barrel. They also sell them in a 45-90. It's on back order and I was told could take up to 8 months to come in. I've done research and in my opinion I would rather wait and pay more money to get exactly what I want than buy one that's questionsable.

Just something to consider.

How hard are 45-90 rounds to find? How big a piece of lead are you putting down range? I looked it up on the Winchester site, and it's a very nice looking firearm, although pricey!

BigJon · #22 03-23-2012, 11:47 AM

I'd pick the bolt gun.

stuckeyman · #23 03-23-2012, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinawalli

How hard are 45-90 rounds to find? How big a piece of lead are you putting down range? I looked it up on the Winchester site, and it's a very nice looking firearm, although pricey!

I've never seen 45-90 so I'm guessing not that common that's why I went with 45-70. I'll prob start off with 325grain then take it from there. I don't reload but I plan to in the future so I'll be saving my brass.

u_cant_rope_the_wind · #24 03-23-2012, 12:18 PM

Cabella's has 45-90 ammo
as well if you reload just get some 45-120 basic brass and cut it down to match yer gun, you can make some realy good brass that way. and have a realy strong powerfull bush gun as well, way more powerfull then a 450 marlin

fordtruckin · #25 03-23-2012, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alpining

Is it really that much of an improvement over the 45-70? I tend to admire venerable cartridges over the latest and greatest, but I know nothing about this one.

I wouldn't exactly say the .450 marlin is the latest and greatest being 12 years old. Granted it is quite young compaired to the 45/70.

Biggest difference is a .450marlin is a belted case instead of a rimmed like the 45/70. .450marlin is based off the .458win case.
Figure a 405gr .450marlin puts out bout 1900fps and 3500ftlbs. and a 325gr is at 2200fps and 3600ftlbs.

a 300gr 45/70 puts out about 2000fps and 2800ftlbs. I couldn't find any good data on 405gr 45/70s. They were all less than 2000ftlbs out of a trapdoor rifle.

anyways yes you could handload a 45/70 up to .450marlin levels, but then I'm guessin you could handload the marlin up even higher.

I got friends who have both and personally I think the .450looks pretty sick with the ported barrel.

nanuk-O-dah-Nort · #26 05-11-2012, 10:31 PM

I think in like guns with new components, the 45/70 can be loaded to equal or exceed the Marlin

also note, the Marlin is NOT based on the .458WinMag but on the 458American

the Marlin uses a different belt, to the standard .375HH belts don't headspace correctly.

the 458American is based on the HH Belted....

I don't know if you can make the HH case work reliably in the Marlin...

I suppose you could bubba something up to take up the HS... but it would be easier to buy brass, or Chamber the rifle for the American.

eric2381 · #27 05-12-2012, 07:04 AM

The 450 marlin case is a case of its own. It would not be safe to make brass out of the normal H&H brass.

The 45-70 factory ammo is loaded to low pressure to accommodate the many older rifles out there. 450 marlin is a newer cartridge that's only been chambered in newer stronger rifles. So the 450 marlin is factory loaded to higher pressures.

If a guy was handloading ammo and had a 45-70 in a marlin and a 450 marlin in marlin rifle, performance would be the same. The only way that the 450 marlin is more powerful than the 45-70 is if only factory ammo is used.

There is hot factory ammo available for the 45-70 made to fire only from strong rifles. It's not very common and easy to find though.

I load 405gr to 2050fps in my Marlin 45-70. It is a killing machine.

If you handload, I would definitely get the 45-70 over the 450 marlin. Brass is much easier to find.

ACKLEY ABE · #28 05-14-2012, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric2381

The 450 marlin case is a case of its own. It would not be safe to make brass out of the normal H&H brass.

The 45-70 factory ammo is loaded to low pressure to accommodate the many older rifles out there. 450 marlin is a newer cartridge that's only been chambered in newer stronger rifles. So the 450 marlin is factory loaded to higher pressures.

If a guy was handloading ammo and had a 45-70 in a marlin and a 450 marlin in marlin rifle, performance would be the same. The only way that the 450 marlin is more powerful than the 45-70 is if only factory ammo is used.

There is hot factory ammo available for the 45-70 made to fire only from strong rifles. It's not very common and easy to find though.

I load 405gr to 2050fps in my Marlin 45-70. It is a killing machine.

If you handload, I would definitely get the 45-70 over the 450 marlin. Brass is much easier to find.

Yip all above is true except handloaded the 45/70 can be loaded to higher velocities than the 450 not just equal to. 405 at 2050 is as good as it gets......

although 350 Hornady's are my choice. I use these in two Marlin's.

I also have a 45/70 in a Mauser that will reach close to, if not equal 458 win velocities....but that's not a fair comparison to the lever guns.

dinohunter · #29 06-24-2012, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuckeyman

I ordered a Winchester 1886 in a 45-70 20" barrel. They also sell them in a 45-90. It's on back order and I was told could take up to 8 months to come in. I've done research and in my opinion I would rather wait and pay more money to get exactly what I want than buy one that's questionsable.

Just something to consider.

i was looking for win 1886 45-70,wholesale sports and bass pro in calgary web sites didnt have any info,i assume they dont sell them,where have you ordered it from and how much? thanks for info.

stuckeyman · #30 06-24-2012, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinohunter

i was looking for win 1886 45-70,wholesale sports and bass pro in calgary web sites didnt have any info,i assume they dont sell them,where have you ordered it from and how much? thanks for info.

I went to bass pro and a young fella named Cameron checked with his reps and it could be ordered. I'm still waiting. I don't know if Cameron is still there it's been awhile. As far as I know it's still on back order.