1 1/8 inch grouping

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by hardy

Crazy yah tell a guy he can hit a gopher at 300 yards when his gun only shoots an inch at 100 and you catch flak like you just suggested the impossible. Funny how a bull elk 80 years ago went down to a 30-30 but now won't die unless you shoot it with an Abrams Tank.

One of the worst things a person can do IMO, with a hunting rifle , be it varmints or big game, is to group shoot that particular rifle !!
Many shooters get far too wrapped up in the fact that a rifle is not printing less than one inch, but the fact remains, and I have stated it often, is that target rifle accuracy is not needed for most realistic ranges for a hunting rifle.
A 10/22 may not win a small bore match but it do quite fine ina gopher field, that same applies to a .222 Remington that will not print a 5 shot one inch group - it will do fine in the same gopher field.....
Cat

[densa44]

CTD may be right. Once the bullet starts down the barrel, all the improvements the members talk about have already done their job, ditto hand loading. If the barrel is just a straight tube, (is it?) with rifling in it, it you don't swing it around, my experience is that it hits where it is pointing.

Maybe I've been lucky, a 6.5 swedish, a Remington 06, and a ruger .22 lr. but off the bench they will shoot like CTD says. I have taken lessons, my kids too, and we shoot a lot but at our own range.

Except for the harmonics of the barrel, where an incorrect barrel length would be a problem, I have seen those results and didn't know enough to think it unusual.

When the group opened up I blamed the shooter for waving the barrel around.

Good thread.

[elkhunter11]

CTD may be right. Once the bullet starts down the barrel, all the improvements the members talk about have already done their job, ditto hand loading. If the barrel is just a straight tube, (is it?) with rifling in it, it you don't swing it around, my experience is that it hits where it is pointing.

Actually, no barrel is perfect, no chamber is perfect, no receiver is perfect, and no ammunition is perfect, although some are much closer than others.

Maybe I've been lucky, a 6.5 swedish, a Remington 06, and a ruger .22 lr. but off the bench they will shoot like CTD says.

So you constantly achieve .25" groups at 100 yards with those three rifles? It is very impressive to do so with a factory 6.5x55 or a factory 30-06, but it is outright amazing to consistently shoot .25" groups at 100 yards with a 22lr. What 22lr rifle and load are you using?

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by densa44

Except for the harmonics of the barrel, where an incorrect barrel length would be a problem, I have seen those results and didn't know enough to think it unusual.

.

In the case of the 22LR, one cannot adjust the ammo without actually changing the ammo or even the lot number, and at one time many match rifles were built with adjustable pressure points inthem to change the frequencey node of the barrel.
then martini Internatioanl, the older remington 40X, some of the Winchester 52's, and the remington M37 were just a few of the rifles fromte 50's and 60's thathad this .
Some were twin screws, some an adjustable barrel band.

Rudy Schultz, a World Class competitor and National Small bore team member who owned International Imoprts, would take your rifle and fire it in the basement of his store in a machine rest to determing the best lot of ammo for you, with the undrstanding that several cases would be bought from him.
I do not know of anyone doing this these days , however.
Cat

[260 Rem]

The expectation of shooters varies greatly (with each person applying personal standards to each situation). But, there are two undisputable "truths" ....one is on the paper down-range, and the other is measured by a clean kill that brings death almost instantly (whether it be "game" or Varmint). The first should be assessed with many shots while the later is limited to only "one"!
The majority of paper shooters I see are hunters/varminters who are testing loads, zeroing, or practicing. I only wish that after they established a load/settled on a factory round and zeroed, that they would practice more. I accept there are some individuals that are inherently competent and can get acceptable results with much less practice than I, but even Gretsky needed practice before he was called "the great one"!
densa -perhaps I interpreted your post incorrectly ... but I can assure you that barrel harmonics are affected by a lot factors other than length...ie: stiffness/temperature/internal metal stress.

[Git r Done]

So a 200 yard gopher gun without having to use 3 shots per gopher?

[elkhunter11]

So a 200 yard gopher gun without having to use 3 shots per gopher?

If I had to bet on one of two rifles to shoot five gophers with only five shots at 200 yards, I would sooner bet on the gun that will consistently put five shots into 1" at 200 yards, than the gun that is averaging five shots into 3" at 200 yards. Of course I am assuming the same shooter, and the same conditions.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If I had to bet on one of two rifles to shoot five gophers with only five shots at 200 yards, I would sooner bet on the gun that will consistently put five shots into 1" at 200 yards, than the gun that is averaging five shots into 3" at 200 yards. Of course I am assuming the same shooter, and the same conditions.

I would too, but we are not talking maybes here, we are trying to give the
OP an idea of whether or not he will be able to kill gophers with his .222, and yes, I'm sure he will if he is a decent shot with his rifle.
Cat

[Git r Done]

OP?? But ya i used it last summer but now there are handloads worked up for it and i am going to be using it more this summer than last year and i know it will take some trial and error before i knoe my max efffective range with the gun on gophers but i am just trying to get a few extra opinions. Would a scope with more magnification than 6x make much difference?

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Git r Done

OP?? But ya i used it last summer but now there are handloads worked up for it and i am going to be using it more this summer than last year and i know it will take some trial and error before i knoe my max efffective range with the gun on gophers but i am just trying to get a few extra opinions. Would a scope with more magnification than 6x make much difference?

OP was referring to the "original Poster" !
Scope magnification is a wonderful and horrid thing all wrapped up in the same package!!
On a hot summer day ( or low light conditions) it is nice to be able to turn the power down, and crank it up if there is enough light or little mirage.
I have run scopes as high as 36X on gopher guns, and as low as 2X, it's all good, but for the most part a decent 3-9X will do get everything you can expect out of a .222 Remington.
That doesn't mean I won't take mine off and put a big scope on for a lark, mind you!
Cat

[Git r Done]

True enough. You dont happen to have a nice old Remmy in 222 you would want to part with would you ?

[elkhunter11]

I would too, but we are not talking maybes here, we are trying to give the
OP an idea of whether or not he will be able to kill gophers with his .222, and yes, I'm sure he will if he is a decent shot with his rifle.
Cat

There is no doubt that he will kill plenty of gophers, but he will likely miss a few more than he would with a more accurate rifle.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Git r Done

True enough. You dont happen to have a nice old Remmy in 222 you would want to part with would you ?

Dunno lemme check- (rummage, sort, OUCH!!%$^ *...)
NOPE!
I may know where i can find one however.....
Cat

[nof60]

See you have to understand how it works. If you are not shooting a tight enough group, instead of more practise it is obvious that you need a trigger job. Still not tight enough? Why practise when you can have the gun bedded. Still not tigh enough? the barrell is obviously the problem so get an aftermarket one. My groups are still over 1" so it is quite obvious that I need a new stock and aq custom action.

I think the best way to tighten your groups is practise. After you put a few hundred rounds down the pipe with a well built load, than start changing things. Most factory rifles nowadays will shoot far better than most shooters are ablew to.

Remember that practise does not make perfect, perfect practise makes perfect. Get youself a scoped .22 pistol to shoot 100 m with.

PS before any of you jump me too hard, I have spent my kids inheritance on customizing guns.

[elkhunter11]

In the case of a 222 that shoots 1-1/8" groups at 100 yards, the first place that I would look ,is at my loads. Sometimes fine tuning can improve accuracy significantly, with little or no extra cost.

Of course this is assuming that the OP has proven that he has the shooting skills to do better than that.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

In the case of a 222 that shoots 1-1/8" groups at 100 yards, the first place that I would look ,is at my loads. Sometimes fine tuning can improve accuracy significantly, with little or no extra cost.

Of course this is assuming that the OP has proven that he has the shooting skills to do better than that.

A rifle that has more than 8,000 rounds through it will more than likely not shoot under 1 MOA, and there are lots out there, 222's,223's , 22/250's, etc.
but they will still kill gophers quite well.....
Cat

[LongBomber]

I have a 22-250 that puts 10 into a hair under 1moa consistently, of course you get some 5 shot groups under 1/2moa and some 1moa. It is fine for gophers out to 350-400 yards as long as the shooter reads the winds right. So I would think your 1 1/8 groups will be fine out to at least 300 yards. Sure you will miss on a few shots, but if you are like me you may have missed the shot anyway.

For a scope I like something with a top end around 15x, and a bottom 4-5x. I borrowed a fixed 36x weaver for a weekend of shooting, it was annoying to find the gophers in the small field of view. I run a 6-24 on my 22-250 and most of the time I stay around 12-15x, still has an ok field of view and enough magnification for a gopher at 350yards.

[Git r Done]

Well i shot 39 shells tonight at gophers but i dont know exactly how many i got but i dont think i hit any much past 100 yards past they are to small while looking through that little 6x leupold.

[Git r Done]

Any scope recomendations? I dont want anything bigger than a 14x and dont want to expensive of one something in the 300 dollar range suggestions......

[eric2381]

Just something to look at to maybe help. Is your barrel clean and free of copper and carbon deposits? Hoppes #9 won't remove these tough deposits, and neither will a bore snake.

Is your barrel free floating? Are the action screws tight?

If you decide on a new scope, get a quality one that offers a lifetime, no hassle warranty. I would look into a used Leupold.

While you have the scope off, check your mounts for tightness and be sure your rings are installed correctly also.

KG12 and JB bore paste are my favorite cleaners. Follow the JB pass with a few patches soaked in hoppes or WD40, followed by dry patches.

Good luck, Eric

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by Git r Done

Well i shot 39 shells tonight at gophers but i dont know exactly how many i got but i dont think i hit any much past 100 yards past they are to small while looking through that little 6x leupold.

Was out shooting gophers on the weekend with my 22 rimfire with a 4x Bushnell Scopechief scope 7/8" tube (don't laugh), furthest shot was 135yds. Your scope is not the problem but your cross hair might be, it is really hard to hit a gopher you can't see!! get a fine cross hair in your next scope. Also spend a few bucks to get a good scope $400+ I am shooting a Sightron SII 4.5x15x44mm on my .204 a good optic and fine enough cross hairs to see a gopher well past 500yds.