Deer hunting method question - Alberta/Sask

[Lefty-Canuck]

Waterhawk...when you fish do you use bait or scent? Because if you do.... . Maybe you should use spoons or spinners as these are more ethical or maybe you should only use dry flys, because nymphing is cheating....

LC

[huntinstuff]

Originally Posted by waterhawk

Calling yourself a hunter when you hunt over bait is the same as calling yourself a pick up artist when you hire a prostitute.

And that's fair. You are free to believe that. It only becomes problematic when you begin to rally for your beliefs at the expense of others who believe differently. Then there is conflict.

For you to shun a particular form of hunting is fine. I don't agree, but I respect your decision

[abhunter8]

Originally Posted by waterhawk

Calling yourself a hunter when you hunt over bait is the same as calling yourself a pick up artist when you hire a prostitute.

Love it! lol

[robson3954]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Waterhawk...when you fish do you use bait or scent? Because if you do.... . Maybe you should use spoons or spinners as these are more ethical or maybe you should only use dry flys, because nymphing is cheating....

LC

People that call nymphing cheating just can't read water
Dries should be cheating since it's such a small % of their diet

[Kodiak]

A BIG THANKYOU Huntinstuff for coming back !

[petew]

If you don't think baiting is rampant in Alberta, just walk into any sporting store and look at the baits they are selling.

[Esox]

good thing I only plant and grow food plots then and not bait in alberta...

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by Esox

good thing I only plant and grow food plots then and not bait in alberta...

haha, I don't plant food plots, but I do hunt them.

[huntinstuff]

Originally Posted by Esox

good thing I only plant and grow food plots then and not bait in alberta...

Perfectly legal unless you hunt it.

People use attractants and baits to photograph wildlife. Perfectly legal.

Just don't hunt over it

[top predator]

Baiting in SK for deer works, whether its ethical or not is open to opinion. I baited for years and years in SK and shot many nice bucks in late Nov.

NOW that being said, I find it boring as hell sitting in a stand and don't prefer to hunt that way. For the most part we went back to watching fields at dawn/dusk, calling, and pushing bush.

Personally, I like pushing and posting these days. You get your buddies out and all together, its good exercise, and its tough to hit them running!

Bait is a great way for young hunters to start out IMO.

[waterhawk]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I've hunted behind hounds for deer and coyotes, hunted in provinces that allow .223 caliber rifles ,provinces that Allie baiting both bears and deer, and ivd even been called unethical and cruel because I told someone that I use a psyched round ball instead of inline muzzle loader , and that I shouldn't use a sub gauge shotgun because they wound too many birds .
I've also heard people say compound shooters aren't real archers .
I've also been called " lazy " because I don't scout as much as some or tend to shoot deer for the freezer instead of big racked bucks .
You "holier than thou" badgers that don't like the way others hunt need yo get over yourselves and shut it!

Cat

I have been an AO member for some time. However, sometimes months will go by without looking at this site. I am probably way out touch with the consensus of members regarding commenting on whether certain hunting techniques are to them unacceptable. It seems that things have been worked out here that no one is supposed to criticize what another hunter is doing as long as it is legal. If this is the case, I think it is wrong. There are lots of young hunters that avidly follow what is said on this site. I think it is important that all members feel free to take positions on whether certain hunting methods and techniques are ethical or not. At the very least it will get the inexperienced hunters thinking about what they are doing. I am not in favour of - do what ever you like as long as it is legal.

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by waterhawk

I have been an AO member for some time. However, sometimes months will go by without looking at this site. I am probably way out touch with the consensus of members regarding commenting on whether certain hunting techniques are to them unacceptable. It seems that things have been worked out here that no one is supposed to criticize what another hunter is doing as long as it is legal. If this is the case, I think it is wrong. There are lots of young hunters that avidly follow what is said on this site. I think it is important that all members feel free to take positions on whether certain hunting methods and techniques are ethical or not. At the very least it will get the inexperienced hunters thinking about what they are doing. I am not in favour of - do what ever you like as long as it is legal.

That is fine, but keep your opinion to your self as other people are probably not in favor of the way you do things. Ethics are different for everybody and know one is right or wrong as long as it is legal.

Comparing taking a pop shot to baiting where legal is not the same thing. No one here is saying it is alright to wound animals, only if baiting is legal then there is nothing wrong with it. If you don't like it, or it doesn't fit your ethics, don't do it.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by waterhawk

I have been an AO member for some time. However, sometimes months will go by without looking at this site. I am probably way out touch with the consensus of members regarding commenting on whether certain hunting techniques are to them unacceptable. It seems that things have been worked out here that no one is supposed to criticize what another hunter is doing as long as it is legal. If this is the case, I think it is wrong. There are lots of young hunters that avidly follow what is said on this site. I think it is important that all members feel free to take positions on whether certain hunting methods and techniques are ethical or not. At the very least it will get the inexperienced hunters thinking about what they are doing. I am not in favour of - do what ever you like as long as it is legal.

anybody here shooting animals out of a car using a spot light and a suppressor is a total criminal, yet in places this is totally acceptable.
There are lots of things that are legal in Alberta that I am not in favour of, but they are legal to do so, I don't call anyone down for using those methods.
Cat

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

That is fine, but keep your opinion to your self as other people are probably not in favor of the way you do things. Ethics are different for everybody and know one is right or wrong as long as it is legal.

Comparing taking a pop shot to baiting where legal is not the same thing. No one here is saying it is alright to wound animals, only if baiting is legal then there is nothing wrong with it. If you don't like it, or it doesn't fit your ethics, don't do it.

Well, no, I can't agree that one should stay quiet on the topics of both ethics and legal activities. We have evolving bounds of ethics and laws because our society's ability to express opinions. Imagine how things would work if these topics were not up for discussion. People in connection to those that legislate would be able to have their views passed into law without rebuttal or recourse....

The key is to discuss these topics in a respectful manner when possible. And there are times to take the gloves off....

[waterhawk]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

That is fine, but keep your opinion to your self as other people are probably not in favor of the way you do things. Ethics are different for everybody and know one is right or wrong as long as it is legal.
Comparing taking a pop shot to baiting where legal is not the same thing. No one here is saying it is alright to wound animals, only if baiting is legal then there is nothing wrong with it. If you don't like it, or it doesn't fit your ethics, don't do it.

Shooting a sow bear with cubs is legal but to me there is no question it is wrong and I will not keep that opinion to myself.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by waterhawk

Shooting a sow bear with cubs is legal but to me there is no question it is wrong and I will not keep that opinion to myself.

Once cubs are two years of age they are no longer considered cubs.
Shooting a sow with cubs under the age of two years is illegal, unless they changed the law last year.
Cat

[Wild Bounty]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Once cubs are two years of age they are no longer considered cubs.
Shooting a sow with cubs under the age of two years is illegal, unless they changed the law last year.
Cat

Actually = a female black bear accompanied by a cub under the age of one year

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Wild Bounty

Actually = a female black bear accompanied by a cub under the age of one year

I guess they did change it!
Cat

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Well, no, I can't agree that one should stay quiet on the topics of both ethics and legal activities. We have evolving bounds of ethics and laws because our society's ability to express opinions. Imagine how things would work if these topics were not up for discussion. People in connection to those that legislate would be able to have their views passed into law without rebuttal or recourse....

The key is to discuss these topics in a respectful manner when possible. And there are times to take the gloves off....

I'll agree with that.
It is comments like this:

"Calling yourself a hunter when you hunt over bait is the same as calling yourself a pick up artist when you hire a prostitute."

I suppose that is when we take our gloves off?

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by waterhawk

Shooting a sow bear with cubs is legal but to me there is no question it is wrong and I will not keep that opinion to myself.

I get what you are saying, same as I don't agree with shooting doe's with fawns. People do it though, doesn't make them less of a hunter.

[pseelk]

Originally Posted by waterhawk

I think using a underpowered pellet gun to shoot gophers is legal. Just because something is legal does not make it something that ethical sportsmen should partake in. What about an average archery hunter winging an arrow at a moose that is 80 yards away. It would be legal but not something that I would be prepared to see or hear of without making a comment about how wrong it was.

Just curious ,who made you the judge and jury about what is right and what is wrong?Looks like you just appointed yourself.If its legal its not up to you to decide anything.Bieng onyour high horse does not give you the right to judge anyone.

[waterhawk]

Originally Posted by pseelk

Just curious ,who made you the judge and jury about what is right and what is wrong?Looks like you just appointed yourself.If its legal its not up to you to decide anything.Bieng onyour high horse does not give you the right to judge anyone.

Unfortunately, you are not getting the point. Obviously, everyone will have their own ideas as to what is ethical hunting or not. The point I am raising is that there is nothing wrong with guys on this forum debating those various ideas. If I don't think that it is right to hunt gophers with an underpowered pellet gun or for the average archer to take 80 yard pot shots at big game, I should be able to state that here without guys like you getting upset. Do you understand.

[Morpheus32]

Originally Posted by waterhawk

Unfortunately, you are not getting the point. Obviously, everyone will have their own ideas as to what is ethical hunting or not. The point I am raising is that there is nothing wrong with guys on this forum debating those various ideas. If I don't think that it is right to hunt gophers with an underpowered pellet gun or for the average archer to take 80 yard pot shots at big game, I should be able to state that here without guys like you getting upset. Do you understand.

I have been tracking this as your point from the start, unfortunately some still don't get it.. Ethics require health debate, not just conformity or shrug of the shoulder and say do what you want.

Ethics definition:

"moral principles that govern a person's or group's behavior"

Morals definition:

"a person's standards of behavior or beliefs concerning what is and is not acceptable for them to do."

I have no issue with discussing these issues, and in fact it is healthy.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Morpheus32

I have been tracking this as your point from the start, unfortunately some still don't get it.. Ethics require health debate, not just conformity or shrug of the shoulder and say do what you want.

Ethics definition:

"moral principles that govern a person's or group's behavior"

Morals definition:

"a person's standards of behavior or beliefs concerning what is and is not acceptable for them to do."

I have no issue with discussing these issues, and in fact it is healthy.

True enough, but when you post comparing bait hunters to those who hire prostitutes and then go on to say they do it because of some shortcoming that is not wanting to debate.

That is passing judgement and making a statement.

[Morpheus32]

Originally Posted by expmler

True enough, but when you post comparing bait hunters to those who hire prostitutes and then go on to say they do it because of some shortcoming that is not wanting to debate.

That is passing judgement and making a statement.

Fair enough, but I took his point to be that baiting outside of bear is illegal in our province. Should your morals and therefore you ethics suggest it is OK to bait and you do bait, your actions are illegal. I believe that was the nature of the prostitute comparison, or at least how I took it.

I think it is a valid point, you can have an opinion on baiting, however should you actually bait for deer or the like, that becomes an ethical decision, regardless of the explaination or rational. It is currently illegal.

[Leafy]

There certainly is some interesting discussion on this particular subject. Some clarity for those who still don't understand, first a food plot is not considered baiting. Second, your personal method of enjoying our passion does not make you any less than anyone else in our sport. And finally, the myth of contracting disease due to a product or substance being "placed" would have shown in the dramatic increase in disease for our neighbouring province, it hasn't.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Morpheus32

Fair enough, but I took his point to be that baiting outside of bear is illegal in our province. Should your morals and therefore you ethics suggest it is OK to bait and you do bait, your actions are illegal. I believe that was the nature of the prostitute comparison, or at least how I took it.

I think it is a valid point, you can have an opinion on baiting, however should you actually bait for deer or the like, that becomes an ethical decision, regardless of the explaination or rational. It is currently illegal.

He was simply trying to belittle bait hunters based on his own sense of morals and ethics. He did mot mention anything about the legality of either activity.

He then back pedaled into claiming he only wanted to have a debate.

[Morpheus32]

Originally Posted by expmler

He was simply trying to belittle bait hunters based on his own sense of morals and ethics. He did mot mention anything about the legality of either activity.

He then back pedaled into claiming he only wanted to have a debate.

But there is no bait hunting in Alberta less bear, are you referring to Sask? I guess I just assumed since this is Alberta Outdoorsmen, we are talking Alberta.

If his point that it is an ethics issue if you bait hunt in Alberta for anything other than bear, I can see it. He may have used poor words to express it but that is what I got out of the overall discussion...less snide remarks all round...

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Morpheus32

But there is no bait hunting in Alberta less bear, are you referring to Sask? I guess I just assumed since this is Alberta Outdoorsmen, we are talking Alberta.

If his point that it is an ethics issue if you bait hunt in Alberta for anything other than bear, I can see it. He may have used poor words to express it but that is what I got out of the overall discussion...less snide remarks all round...

Reread it.

[Morpheus32]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Reread it.

I guess we are now arguing about how we are arguing...

I do believe this thread has run its course...