obsolete bullets

[catnthehat]

I have been accused of being stuck in the past a few times and not getting with modern times!
The truth is however, is that I like to use stuff that is considered obsolete because it tends to take me back too my younger days when my heroes used the same gear.

Strange thing is I have been told at times that the old stuff is "no good" and have also been told that if the old timers had the new stuff they would be using it.
Maybe so, but that was the new stuff then,and some still to this day do not think that they absolutely need to use some of the new technology even though it is available to them.
Take bullets for instance, these three bullets are of an old design, one of which actually has the jacket staked too the core for extra adherence!!
The other has a nylon tip, and although this bullet was in use long before the Nosler Ballistic Tip, it is considered obsolete because the company is no longer in existence.

The third bullet, is of a design that is far from new , and actually is very much like the nylon tipped bullet but with a copper point instead of nylon.
These bullets all kill very well and are accurate too, but R&D technology deals as much with customer whims, and the firearms and ammunition industry is no different so these bullets have gone by the wayside.
Sad, because I like using them and they shoot well in the three rifles I have chambered for them.

They were cutting edge in their day, but alas, we do not wan them in these modern times because they are either of a lead/copper cup and core design ( as opposed to lead free) or the brains inn the advertising departments have come up with the "latest , greatest and better than thee other guy" products too sell us!

Cat

[Slowhand]

As long as the desired result is achieved; humanely in the case of dealing with live targets, obsolescence is in the eyes of the marketing and sales department. Satisfaction rests solely with the owner of the finger that pulled the trigger.

[bitterrootfly]

It’s sad it has to be this way, my favourite all time bullet design is the partition and while it hasn’t been around as long as those beauties you have on the table I laugh when I’m told it’s obsolete, if it ain’t broke why fix it and too many great things have been lost to the history books by over zealous marketing... same reason why I will always love still hunting in flannel with an 8mm Mauser, the old stuff just feels right!

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by bitterrootfly

It’s sad it has to be this way, my favourite all time bullet design is the partition and while it hasn’t been around as long as those beauties you have on the table I laugh when I’m told it’s obsolete, if it ain’t broke why fix it and too many great things have been lost to the history books by over zealous marketing... same reason why I will always love still hunting in flannel with an 8mm Mauser, the old stuff just feels right!

I met a fella on Facebokk recently who is in Sweden, and he still uses an 8MM JS, he thinks sometimes he should get a new rifle, but then thinks " Why?? this one works very well!"
As far as the Partition goes,I will never forget the quote of John Wooters
" The Nosler Partition is so predictable it is almost boring""!
That is saying something for sure!!
Cat

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Slowhand

As long as the desired result is achieved; humanely in the case of dealing with live targets, obsolescence is in the eyes of the marketing and sales department. Satisfaction rests solely with the owner of the finger that pulled the trigger.

I have about 40 of each bullet left, so I should be able to make them last for quite a while- unless I go and do something stupid like take them to the range!
The have the same point of impact as my Speer 1800 grain PSP''s so there is no need too shoot one unless I see an animal I want to shoot!
Cat

[220 Swift]

Is that a Remington Bronze point on the right? We bought 500 or 1000 of them from wholesale sports a few times. Only have about 100 left

You know why these are obsolete is that the different species of deer are in the armor race and we need more expensive bullets to get past it lol.

I had a box of the round nose ones too that looed like that which were given to me. The tip has a fuzziness to them. Speer if i recall individually packed in a box.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by 220 Swift

Is that a Remington Bronze point on the right? We bought 500 or 1000 of them from wholesale sports a few times. Only have about 100 left

You know why these are obsolete is that the different species of deer are in the armor race and we need more expensive bullets to get past it lol.

I had a box of the round nose ones too that looed like that which were given to me. The tip has a fuzziness to them. Speer if i recall individually packed in a box.

These are all C.I.L. Bullets , a 215 grain KKSP( Klein Kore Soft Point )
Next is the 180 grain ST ( Sabre Tip)
and the one you are asking about is the 180 grain CPE ( copper point expanding)
BTW the fuzziness is simply a bit of oxidation on the lead itself, no biggy
Cat

[catnthehat]

Here are the boxes for those bullets.

Cat

[Pioneer2]

Two of the three picked up at gunshows over the years.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Pioneer2

Two of the three picked up at gunshows over the years.

Wanna sell 'em?
Cat

[Don_Parsons]

I can see my self going back to the 30 cal round nose.

They flatten things out up close.

Did I mention I like Harvesting critters at close range.

[BKG]

I have some for sale..... Just bumped again.

[colroggal]

Originally Posted by Don_Parsons

I can see my self going back to the 30 cal round nose.

They flatten things out up close.

Did I mention I like Harvesting critters at close range.

Sierra's 180g pro hunter is one of my favorites for close in .308 shots. An '06 would be perfect with them.

Colin

[Athabasca1]

I remember reloading using the 180 gr copper point expanding bullets in .308 diameter in the mid 60s. They worked real good in both the .308 Win and 30/06. The only other bullet I used in .308 diameter at that time was the 180 gr Nosler partition but they were slightly more expensive to buy. I used the Nosler partitions for a .300 WBY magnum.

[270person]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

These are all C.I.L. Bullets , a 215 grain KKSP( Klein Kore Soft Point )
Next is the 180 grain ST ( Sabre Tip)
Cat

I remember good ol sabre tips in the 60's and early 70's I believe. Old man always used them in his .308

[220 Swift]

Yes CIL. Thats what they are, forgot till i seen them. As for the corrosion on the tip i shoot them and it seems fine on impact . I have been using them 😀

[jeprli]

I have 2 boxes of 3030 ammo both 170gr, one saber tooth one kksp. What is the difference between the two bullets? On a side note they shoot very well out of my gun, about 1.5"@100. This ammo is older then me

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by jeprli

I have 2 boxes of 3030 ammo both 170gr, one saber tooth one kksp. What is the difference between the two bullets? On a side note they shoot very well out of my gun, about 1.5"@100. This ammo is older then me

Sabre Tooth?
Do some of your 3o/30 bullets have a blue or yellow cap on them?
The KKSP is simply a round nosed cup and core bullet with the jacket staked to the core to promote core retention .
Interestingly enough , I have never recovered one to examine it!

The Sabre Tip’s main selling point was for tip durability to aid in feeding from a magazine . It is supposed to have a thick jacket for big game
Cat

[jeprli]

Autocorrect gets in my way. Saber tip is what i meant. Yellow cap on one, plain roundnose on other.

Thank you for clarifying this Cat!

I know this ammo has somewhat of a following and i don't feel like wasting it on target. I pulled one bullet to see how the powder looked, it looks and smells fine and ammo looks practicaly new it doesn't have any obvious oxidation on it. I think i'll keep it for hunting purposes.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by jeprli

Autocorrect gets in my way. Saber tip is what i meant. Yellow cap on one, plain roundnose on other.

Thank you for clarifying this Cat!

I know this ammo has somewhat of a following and i don't feel like wasting it on target. I pulled one bullet to see how the powder looked, it looks and smells fine and ammo looks practicaly new it doesn't have any obvious oxidation on it. I think i'll keep it for hunting purposes.

HAHA!! I hate it when that happens!
I decided as well this year past after I got things set up with my 215's that they will no longer be shot at targets as well, a 180 Speer hot core has the same POI, so I will practice with those and save the Sabre tips and the 215 KKSP's for hunting.
These bullets are not magic pills BTW, I just think it is cool to be able to hunt with vintage bullets!
I also have about 150 Barnes TSX's that work as well - no better at 300 yards mind you, but as well.......
Cat

[geriatric]

I never throw anything out (according to my wife) and this is from the mid-1960s but is not dated on the C-I-L information pamphlet.
[IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG]

By the 1988 dated pamphlet C-I-L had morphed into iVi Imperial, and some of their bullets had been dropped from production.
[IMG][/IMG]

About 30 years ago a buddy and I split a purchase of 1,000 .308 180gr. surplus Sabretips from I think Higginson's in Ontario, via an ad. in Canadian Access to firearms, but sadly they are all long gone now. They were super accurate in my 30-06.

I did however just dig out 25 pieces of .308 180gr. CPE's that I found in my bitsa-box, along with 2 pieces of .311 215gr. KKSP's.

Memories.

[catnthehat]

I have a few of the old catalogs and data as well, just when you don't think you need it and are going to toss it.....!
I remember visiting Higginson's back in the 1990's , and they had NIB Sabre Tips in small round boxes for sale, that Tom Higginson had bought when C.I.L. was getting rid of their excess inventory.
I should have bought the works! LOL!
Cat

[Grizzly Adams]

What means obsolete ? They still work like they were intended to.

Grizz

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

What means obsolete ? They still work like they were intended to.

Grizz

Obsolete because they are no longer made and are not considered adequate by many .
I however will continue to use them until they spread my ashes to the four winds across Mountain Rapids!
Cat

[nastycanasta]

I have a box with 40 of the 215 kksp if your interested.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by nastycanasta

I have a box with 40 of the 215 kksp if your interested.

Cat

[Pioneer2]

Originally Posted by nastycanasta

I have a box with 40 of the 215 kksp if your interested.

Those were the one's for the big ugly stuff at brush range.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Pioneer2

Those were the one's for the big ugly stuff at brush range.

They shoot well at distance out of my rifle as well , much more accurate than the Premium 174 Woodliegh’s I have that are languishing in my cupboard!
Cat

[petew]

I never had a KKSP let me down, but the Saber Tip was a disaster unless it hit bone. Now if it isn't a partition I don't load it other than in 223 . When I use up the remaining 30-30 and 32 spl ammo in the box I will start loading for them, but for now the old Dominion and CIL round nose work well for me.

[1100winger]

I still have a partial box of CPE in .311 on the shelf, rifle has long gone. Nostalgic. For my 300 WM, I still hoard a collection of Barnes originals in 180 and 250 gr. They still work well.