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Old 06-30-2018, 08:31 AM
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Default Air condition cost ?

Any body install central air recently ? How big of a house and cost ? My house is 1000 sq/ft Estimate coming on wed. Just want to compare if they are trying to screw me or not. Same people that installed my furnace about 5 years or so back.

Getting tired of the portable one, it works good but getting close to 10 years old and gonna need replacing in the next couple of years anyways. Might as well put the $400/$500 towards central air.
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Old 06-30-2018, 08:37 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Default air conditioner

Installed my air conditioner this spring myself. Total cost was $105, Sears had Frigidare window units on sale, regular price was $389. Sad to see Sears go but got one last good deal.
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Old 06-30-2018, 09:18 AM
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Think he's looking into central air Wolf.
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Old 06-30-2018, 09:22 AM
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We had our week of heat, save the Bucks, not needed around these parts.
Lows of 10 of so,degrees and highs of 25 or so is average temps now if we were I. The 30's or higher constantly then yup A/C for sure....
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Old 06-30-2018, 09:57 AM
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Screw that 😛. Luv central air and will always have it. Worth every penny. Lots of deals out there right now
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Old 06-30-2018, 10:40 AM
dewalt18 dewalt18 is offline
 
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Many variables come into play on this. Size of unit (likely either a 2, or 2.5 ton in your case), distance from furnace, distance from electrical panel all come into play, as well as thermostat and control wiring may not be suitable, and could need to be upgraded. Lose numbers will put you somewhere around the $3k mark, possibly more, possibly less depending on actual site conditions and unit chosen. SEER is the seasonal energy efficiency rating, and is based on cost of operating over an entire season, and is calculated based a much warmer climate than ours. The higher the SEER rating, the more efficient the unit. However, as the SEER goes up, so does the initial cost. In our climate, and the short length of our cooking season, I wouldn’t recommend anything above a 17 SEER, as it will take many years to recover your cost. That being said, the new energy code dictates that nothing below a 14.5 SEER can be installed in a residential application. If you have any questions after receiving your quote, feel free to PM me. Also, I’d recommend getting more than one quote.
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Old 06-30-2018, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Pixel Shooter View Post
Screw that 😛. Luv central air and will always have it. Worth every penny. Lots of deals out there right now
Spot on. Live is too short to sweat your butt off every night till it cools off. Air doesn't cost much a month to operate.

BIL just had one installed on a slightly bigger house. As long as you have central air, and your 1000 sq ft house is all on one level, then a 2 ton 20 seer unit will do fine. Top of the line Trane, American Standard and Carrier are all on sale now. Installed you should easily be done under $3,000 unless there is a really complicated install needed.
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Old 06-30-2018, 12:00 PM
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Screw that 😛. Luv central air and will always have it. Worth every penny. Lots of deals out there right now
X2 on that! I worked nightshift for a lot of summers well worth the money.
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Old 07-01-2018, 07:24 AM
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Screw that 😛. Luv central air and will always have it. Worth every penny. Lots of deals out there right now
Throw on the air circ, takes 17 degree air from basement to the upstairs, takes upstairs from 25 degrees to 20 degrees in 1/2hr....poor man's A/C
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Old 07-01-2018, 04:33 AM
Dave barry Dave barry is offline
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Its cost me about $2790 last December
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Old 07-01-2018, 01:20 PM
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Its cost me about $2790 last December
I feel lucky on the price I payed for mine looking at some of the prices people payed for theirs. $1800 installed. mind you it is a Mid efficient A/C unit for a 1200 sq. ft. home.
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Old 07-01-2018, 07:00 AM
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I got Reliance and Robs plumbing coming in for inspection and quotes on tuesday. I will let you know what there quotes are. Should be between $ 3000 and $4000 and from all your replies and internet research should be a 2 ton. Thanks guy's !
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Old 07-01-2018, 07:12 AM
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No idea who you're getting your estimates from but do yourself a favor and ...do not hire Dyand for your AC or furnace work. Total clownshow.
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Old 07-01-2018, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim473 View Post
I got Reliance and Robs plumbing coming in for inspection and quotes on tuesday. I will let you know what there quotes are. Should be between $ 3000 and $4000 and from all your replies and internet research should be a 2 ton. Thanks guy's !
Here is your BBB rating for Reliance and IMO it is flattering:

Overview
Customer Review Rating:
52%
46%
[101] Positive Reviews
[4] Neutral Reviews
[89] Negative Reviews
[194] Total Customer Reviews
[508] Total Customer Complaints

They still get an A+ rating, whatever that means. They must use the alphabet differently than most folks using the English language.
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Old 07-01-2018, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by MK2750 View Post
Here is your BBB rating for Reliance and IMO it is flattering:

Overview
Customer Review Rating:
52%
46%
[101] Positive Reviews
[4] Neutral Reviews
[89] Negative Reviews
[194] Total Customer Reviews
[508] Total Customer Complaints

They still get an A+ rating, whatever that means. They must use the alphabet differently than most folks using the English language.
Yikes!

I’d be running.
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Old 07-01-2018, 08:29 AM
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Romaniuk Heating And Air Conditioning get good reviews.

https://homestars.com/companies/2815...r-conditioning
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  #17  
Old 07-01-2018, 09:02 AM
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Those ratings for Reliance are unbelievable. I have never seen a company with that many complaints before. How the hell does that rate A+. Be interesting to see their quote but no way would I ever use them. I always check Google, Homestars and Yelp for reviews when I hire someone new and I have never seen ratings that bad except for Chub an ADT security.
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  #18  
Old 07-01-2018, 11:45 AM
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ARPI’S did a great job here.
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Old 07-03-2018, 08:11 PM
kevinhits kevinhits is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple View Post
Yikes!

I’d be running.
Absolutley.....

Not sure what the prices are these days but we put a 3 ton for 2700 Sq ft 2 storey for $3000.00. This was in 2012 though....

Shop around and take your time for the best deal....

$4000 for a 2 ton is way over priced IMO....
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Old 07-03-2018, 08:25 PM
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I just had one installed in Athabasca 1300 sq ft house. I Did the electrical wiring and with tax and a fitted cover was 4100. Ian not sure how I lived without it before.
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  #21  
Old 07-01-2018, 08:51 AM
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I see lots of people throwing around the square footage of their homes in hopes of an estimate on AC sizing and cost.

AC units are not sized on the square footage of a home or even the heat loss of a home. It is a factor, but just a factor in the equation.

The number one concern of a qualified HVAC estimator should be the duct work. Furnaces and air handlers are not pumps. The amount of air they are able to move is completely dependent on the size of the duct work, number of supply outlets and return air. Any contractor that does not count your vents, measure the exposed mains and calculate the air flow using a calculator, should be shown the door. The only exception is an experience contractor that actually designed and installed the duct work in your home or knows the exact duct design of the house you are living in. Always make certain he checks for proper return air in the lower levels or your nicely finished basement will be colder than a meat locker. This is especially true when your house was designed around in floor heating where inexperienced or lazy contractors feel they can get away with inadequate air flow. He/she should also ask specific questions about the comfort of your home and if you have had any airflow concerns or hot/cold spots. These are often easily dealt with by better balancing a system, adding a run or two, or adjusting the furnace or air handler.

The second step is determining the air flow capacity of the furnace/air handler. The furnace/air handler CFM out put is generally clearly marked on the manufacturers plate. It is also included in the model # of the unit. An experienced contractor should be able to point this out to you however you can look your furnace up on line if you have doubt.

If you have not got it yet, air flow is everything in HVAC, especially the AC part. An AC coil needs 350 to 400 CFM of air flow per ton or it will ice up and cost you a fortune to run. Some may still cool your home but when you get your electrical bill you will still be over heating.

Next up is determining the electrical requirements of the unit and install of both high and low voltage wiring. Plumbers, sheet metal techs and refrigerant techs are NOT electricians. You require an electrical permit drawn by a master electrician to legally install your AC. Do not assume, ASK. Low voltage requirements can be rectified with a new modern thermostat that runs off a couple or three wires or by adding a fast stat. Don't allow your contractor to move around low voltage wiring to make the AC work. Many an inexperienced contractor will use wires designed to stage the furnace or induce the fan during central exhaust cycles, to run the AC. You generally don't notice until heating season when your circulating fan, staging or accessories are no longer functioning. By this time the contractor is gone and you are left paying the money you saved on install fixing these issues.

Now that we have determined what the system is capable of doing, we can finally look at the square footage, heat loss and general exposure of the home. Have the windows been upgraded? Are we dealing with 2x4 or 2x6 construction? What is the R value of the insulation? Is the home exposed to southern sun all day? Is there an unusual amount of electronics like computers running? Is the home a walk out, bungalow or bi-level?

A well insulated 1400 square foot home on the north side of hill or well shaded with a bungalow type basement may be easily and efficiently cooled with a 2 ton unit. The same house moderately exposed on the hill top may require a 2.5 ton unit. If we build this same house as a walk out on the south side of the hill without any shading, 3 tons is not out of the question.

OR you can get a price/sizing over the phone, internet or big box store, wait for slick to come by and measure the top of the furnace for coil size and roll the dice that you luck into a good deal. Do you feel lucky?
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Old 07-01-2018, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MK2750 View Post
I see lots of people throwing around the square footage of their homes in hopes of an estimate on AC sizing and cost.

AC units are not sized on the square footage of a home or even the heat loss of a home. It is a factor, but just a factor in the equation.

The number one concern of a qualified HVAC estimator should be the duct work. Furnaces and air handlers are not pumps. The amount of air they are able to move is completely dependent on the size of the duct work, number of supply outlets and return air. Any contractor that does not count your vents, measure the exposed mains and calculate the air flow using a calculator, should be shown the door. The only exception is an experience contractor that actually designed and installed the duct work in your home or knows the exact duct design of the house you are living in. Always make certain he checks for proper return air in the lower levels or your nicely finished basement will be colder than a meat locker. This is especially true when your house was designed around in floor heating where inexperienced or lazy contractors feel they can get away with inadequate air flow. He/she should also ask specific questions about the comfort of your home and if you have had any airflow concerns or hot/cold spots. These are often easily dealt with by better balancing a system, adding a run or two, or adjusting the furnace or air handler.

The second step is determining the air flow capacity of the furnace/air handler. The furnace/air handler CFM out put is generally clearly marked on the manufacturers plate. It is also included in the model # of the unit. An experienced contractor should be able to point this out to you however you can look your furnace up on line if you have doubt.

If you have not got it yet, air flow is everything in HVAC, especially the AC part. An AC coil needs 350 to 400 CFM of air flow per ton or it will ice up and cost you a fortune to run. Some may still cool your home but when you get your electrical bill you will still be over heating.

Next up is determining the electrical requirements of the unit and install of both high and low voltage wiring. Plumbers, sheet metal techs and refrigerant techs are NOT electricians. You require an electrical permit drawn by a master electrician to legally install your AC. Do not assume, ASK. Low voltage requirements can be rectified with a new modern thermostat that runs off a couple or three wires or by adding a fast stat. Don't allow your contractor to move around low voltage wiring to make the AC work. Many an inexperienced contractor will use wires designed to stage the furnace or induce the fan during central exhaust cycles, to run the AC. You generally don't notice until heating season when your circulating fan, staging or accessories are no longer functioning. By this time the contractor is gone and you are left paying the money you saved on install fixing these issues.

Now that we have determined what the system is capable of doing, we can finally look at the square footage, heat loss and general exposure of the home. Have the windows been upgraded? Are we dealing with 2x4 or 2x6 construction? What is the R value of the insulation? Is the home exposed to southern sun all day? Is there an unusual amount of electronics like computers running? Is the home a walk out, bungalow or bi-level?

A well insulated 1400 square foot home on the north side of hill or well shaded with a bungalow type basement may be easily and efficiently cooled with a 2 ton unit. The same house moderately exposed on the hill top may require a 2.5 ton unit. If we build this same house as a walk out on the south side of the hill without any shading, 3 tons is not out of the question.

OR you can get a price/sizing over the phone, internet or big box store, wait for slick to come by and measure the top of the furnace for coil size and roll the dice that you luck into a good deal. Do you feel lucky?
Correct our quote was based on redoing the furnace with a complete new install and he wanted the house plans to get the cubic meter air volume and window sizes before gives us an answer. We are happy.
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Old 07-02-2018, 01:32 AM
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Once you have central air you'll wonder how you ever lived without it. It's the second best thing since sliced bread.
We used Clear Skies for both our houses and I'd recommend them to anyone that asks. I had an issue with the mounting of the garage furnace and they sent someone out after warranty and fixed it for free.
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Old 07-05-2018, 06:44 AM
Weedy1 Weedy1 is offline
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Originally Posted by MK2750 View Post
The number one concern of a qualified HVAC estimator should be the duct work. Furnaces and air handlers are not pumps. The amount of air they are able to move is completely dependent on the size of the duct work, number of supply outlets and return air. Any contractor that does not count your vents, measure the exposed mains and calculate the air flow using a calculator, should be shown the door. The only exception is an experience contractor that actually designed and installed the duct work in your home or knows the exact duct design of the house you are living in. Always make certain he checks for proper return air in the lower levels or your nicely finished basement will be colder than a meat locker. This is especially true when your house was designed around in floor heating where inexperienced or lazy contractors feel they can get away with inadequate air flow. He/she should also ask specific questions about the comfort of your home and if you have had any airflow concerns or hot/cold spots. These are often easily dealt with by better balancing a system, adding a run or two, or adjusting the furnace or air handler.

The second step is determining the air flow capacity of the furnace/air handler. The furnace/air handler CFM out put is generally clearly marked on the manufacturers plate. It is also included in the model # of the unit. An experienced contractor should be able to point this out to you however you can look your furnace up on line if you have doubt.

If you have not got it yet, air flow is everything in HVAC, especially the AC part. An AC coil needs 350 to 400 CFM of air flow per ton or it will ice up and cost you a fortune to run. Some may still cool your home but when you get your electrical bill you will still be over heating.
With ^^^ being said, I have often wondered how a resi contractor determines the actual air flow of an existing installation where the homeowner doesn't want a new furnace? Do any of the contractors do traverses or static pressure curves to determine the true operating point of the blower?
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Old 07-05-2018, 08:19 AM
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With ^^^ being said, I have often wondered how a resi contractor determines the actual air flow of an existing installation where the homeowner doesn't want a new furnace? Do any of the contractors do traverses or static pressure curves to determine the true operating point of the blower?
New furnace or not is not relevant. A contractor first needs to determine what the air handler/furnace is capable of, then he needs to determine maximum and minimum air flow the duct system may be capable of.

There is some differing options as to what static pressure variable should be used to determine duct sizing. Many of our local contractors insists on using a static pressure factor that ices coils and trips limit switches. I have talked to dozens of homeowners that are completely frustrated with equipment that just wont function properly due to under sized ducting. They do this obviously to save money, along with the lightest gauge tin they can get away with. At best you get a noisy and inefficient system, at worst the system just doesn't function or fails prematurely.

So to answer your question, it is very difficult to determine the exact airflow without x-ray vision or some background info of what is in finished walls and ceilings. It is not difficult however to determine if you meet the minimum requirements of the equipment you wish to install simply by measuring the exposed duct work at the furnace, counting the registers/returns and checking air flow at the registers. A simple slide type duct sizing calculator and a little math is all that is needed.

The rule of thumb is a minimum of 350 to 400 CFM per ton of AC.
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Old 07-04-2018, 06:14 AM
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I got Reliance and Robs plumbing coming in for inspection and quotes on tuesday. I will let you know what there quotes are. Should be between $ 3000 and $4000 and from all your replies and internet research should be a 2 ton. Thanks guy's !
Got the two quotes.

Rob's / Albertan , $5800

Reliance , $ 3800
Both Before GST. Both quoted 16 seer and 2 ton

$2000 difference in price. WOW ! I thought prices would be closer to 10% to 20% difference.

Looking for a third quote now to see which one is out to lunch. I'm pretty sure Rob's is a rip off for pricing, and not sure about Reliance with installation and servicing and professionalism.
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Old 07-04-2018, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Kim473 View Post
Got the two quotes.

Rob's / Albertan , $5800

Reliance , $ 3800
Both Before GST. Both quoted 16 seer and 2 ton

$2000 difference in price. WOW ! I thought prices would be closer to 10% to 20% difference.

Looking for a third quote now to see which one is out to lunch. I'm pretty sure Rob's is a rip off for pricing, and not sure about Reliance with installation and servicing and professionalism.
Without details, it is like asking how much is it to buy a car. SEER has nothing to do with quality. It would be like saying a Corolla is a nicer car than a Lexis because it gets better gas mileage.

IIRC Reliance uses mostly contractor grade Goodman. Unless there is some electrical, ducting issues or you are 100 miles out of town, your quote is a little high but not bad. Goodman uses both types of compressors. If you stepped up to a scroll at that price it is a pretty good deal.

Having said that, their 500 complaints at the BBB would still turn me away. It looks like a crap shoot as to whether it will be installed right and that is the most important thing. It also looks like there is little likelihood they will be helpful if there are problems.

The other quote seems high but again, if there is issues, that can significantly add to the price. Some issues, like adding duct work, costs now but saves you money over time. If the lower pricing does not include needed upgrades, then you will actually end up paying more over time.

You also make no mention as to brand or model. Top end brands demand more money generally because they are better units. In this day and age, you don't get a top rating without doing a lot of things right. Trane/American Standard for example receives the top grade according to customer reviews by Consumer Reports, Goodman is at the other end of the spectrum.

You also don't mention warranty which can swing the price significantly.

IMO a quality scroll compressor unit, installed with permits should come in between your 3800 number and 4500 depending on brand. Add a long run of 220, an extra panel or a bunch of ducting and your 5800 number might be a steal.
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Old 07-04-2018, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MK2750 View Post
Without details, it is like asking how much is it to buy a car. SEER has nothing to do with quality. It would be like saying a Corolla is a nicer car than a Lexis because it gets better gas mileage.

IIRC Reliance uses mostly contractor grade Goodman. Unless there is some electrical, ducting issues or you are 100 miles out of town, your quote is a little high but not bad. Goodman uses both types of compressors. If you stepped up to a scroll at that price it is a pretty good deal.

Having said that, their 500 complaints at the BBB would still turn me away. It looks like a crap shoot as to whether it will be installed right and that is the most important thing. It also looks like there is little likelihood they will be helpful if there are problems.

The other quote seems high but again, if there is issues, that can significantly add to the price. Some issues, like adding duct work, costs now but saves you money over time. If the lower pricing does not include needed upgrades, then you will actually end up paying more over time.

You also make no mention as to brand or model. Top end brands demand more money generally because they are better units. In this day and age, you don't get a top rating without doing a lot of things right. Trane/American Standard for example receives the top grade according to customer reviews by Consumer Reports, Goodman is at the other end of the spectrum.

You also don't mention warranty which can swing the price significantly.

IMO a quality scroll compressor unit, installed with permits should come in between your 3800 number and 4500 depending on brand. Add a long run of 220, an extra panel or a bunch of ducting and your 5800 number might be a steal.
Both quoted same units same options as well as in the same house so long electrical runs and change duct work is out of the equation. Unit will be installed other side of electrical wall right behind the panel and the furnace is only 10 feet away from same wall, no ceiling in the furnace room. Condensate pump included.

Rob's quote is $2,000 more ! I guess they use gold wire as well as gold piping.

I just called Reliance and they will be out tomorrow afternoon to install the unit including gst and a cover for $3997.00 . Goodman 2 ton 16 seer scroll type.

Will let you all know if any problems arise as well as there workmanship and professionalism.
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  #29  
Old 07-01-2018, 08:27 AM
Sledhead71 Sledhead71 is offline
 
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I'm not a fan of air conditioning and have not had it in near 2 decades.

Couple weeks a year in the bad lands where the nights do not cool down much is fine by me...
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  #30  
Old 07-03-2018, 09:26 AM
DisplacedFlatlander DisplacedFlatlander is offline
 
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I’m in Calgary.

16 seer 2.5 ton. 5,075
UV Purifier. 495
5” filter & cabinet. 275
Hvac service. 103
Costco gift cards. -650
Net. 5,300

Arpi’s ended up being my installer from the Heritage Costco


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