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  #31  
Old 06-15-2018, 04:39 PM
mattthegorby mattthegorby is offline
 
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Originally Posted by SakoShooter View Post
I'll add, in case you go to Cabelas, do not let them sell you a Vortex scope in ypur price range. Vortex does make very nice scopes, but they start at the Razor line, even their Viper line gets very high warranty returns and the diamondback and crossfire lines are chinese made junk that sells on brand name alone.

And yes, I did own a diamondback.....might've been made in Indonesia, but definitely one of the most disapointing scopes I've owned.
I had thought the Viper was comparable to the Monarch, but there does seem to be mixed opinions on their reliability.
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  #32  
Old 06-15-2018, 04:43 PM
mattthegorby mattthegorby is offline
 
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Originally Posted by bman940 View Post
I just entered the name and got 4 retailer's selling at that price. I always call and talk to a person and ask if they can do any better, don't ask, don't get!

Nikon black x1000 4-16

I think that is US pricing, 700+ in Canada as I can see.
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  #33  
Old 06-15-2018, 04:55 PM
SakoShooter SakoShooter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by mattthegorby View Post
I had thought the Viper was comparable to the Monarch, but there does seem to be mixed opinions on their reliability.

A Viper costs more than a Monarch, though of course they trick them out with features, which you pay for.

I've been told by a major retailer (just chatting, I wasn't buying and he wasn't selling) that Vortex Vipers and below were by far their highest warranty return. Maybe he just didn't like Vortex, but he does sell them regardless
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  #34  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:14 PM
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YoteStopper YoteStopper is offline
 
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Originally Posted by mattthegorby View Post
Hey folks,

Just got my first centre fire rifle in 6.5 CM and I am shopping for a scope. My present experience is shooting my .22 with a 2x7x35ish scope.

I am looking for something that will be good for the hunting season, but also fun for me to try shooting paper at ranges farther than I would hunt (600 yards ball park).

Price range $400-$600. Was thinking 4x16x45. Not sure about considering parallax, like the idea of ballistic turrets, but wondering if in my price range this would be a tradeoff for quality in other areas?

I have a Cabelas gift certificate and am watching the sales on Nikon, Vortex, Leopold. Have looking for a deal on the Vortex Strike Eagle, but not sure if it is a quality unit.

Any opinions appreciated.

Matt
Amazon.ca is listing the 4-16x42 Nikon Monarch 3 for under $400, that should be a decent buy if you want a bit of magnification..
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  #35  
Old 06-16-2018, 07:34 AM
glen moa glen moa is offline
 
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For me hunting over 300 yards means dialing and rangefinder and big money.
If hunting under 300y get a 4x12 and go.
If over 300y get at least a 4x16 and a $500 plus rangefinder because when you don’t know the range you can’t shoot.
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  #36  
Old 06-16-2018, 07:57 AM
bman940 bman940 is offline
 
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I was told years ago by a guy who worked at a big box retailer that Vortex offer's some sort of incentive program for selling their scopes. You earn points for products if I recall correctly. I do not know if they still do this but I have gone to some of these retailers and looked at Nikon scopes only to have salesman try and talk me out of one and into Vortex, yes, even out of L.'s too. At the end of the day, you have to be happy with what you got so they eye test is the best way.
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  #37  
Old 06-16-2018, 08:51 AM
mattthegorby mattthegorby is offline
 
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Originally Posted by YoteStopper View Post
Amazon.ca is listing the 4-16x42 Nikon Monarch 3 for under $400, that should be a decent buy if you want a bit of magnification..
Thanks, may well go this way once I have a chance to drop by Cabelas and look through one in the store.
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  #38  
Old 06-16-2018, 08:59 AM
mattthegorby mattthegorby is offline
 
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Originally Posted by glen moa View Post
For me hunting over 300 yards means dialing and rangefinder and big money.
If hunting under 300y get a 4x12 and go.
If over 300y get at least a 4x16 and a $500 plus rangefinder because when you don’t know the range you can’t shoot.
Thanks, just what I am wrestling with after all the feedback. Have to decide if I want the best choice for hunting or if I want to cart around a heavier scope for the season so I have more flexibility for messing around with target shooting for the other 8 months - that I am actually pretty excited about as well.

Figure on getting a rangefinder next Christmas during the sales. Will be going out with guys that have them though this fall.
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  #39  
Old 06-16-2018, 11:49 AM
SakoShooter SakoShooter is offline
 
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Nothing worse than having a scope with "features" that you end up not needing or wanting. Especially fancy ballistic reticles, but this extends to oversized exposed turrets, parralax adjustment, illumination, too high magnification, etc.

Buy something bare bones, but of good quality, you will pay for every bell and whistle so when you have a limited budget that means you are compromising quality for features that you may not like in the real world.

I'm not a Leupold fanboy, and own a single Leupold scope, but a VX-3i fits your budget, is of very good optical quality, and will resell easily with minimal loss of value.

Nikon, Vortex, Bushnell, Burris, etc. all make some very good scopes, maybe even better value in some cases, but you will lose more $$ if you ever go sell, and none of them have better usability than the Leupold, and some are far, far worse in this department.

As an example, check the eye relief on a Vortex Diamondback, or the eyebox of a Nikon in person against a Leupold, might not seem big on paper, but in real use it makes a difference.

The user friendliness of a scope is a hard thing to quantify, it needs to be experienced.

Just my (strongly held) opinion
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  #40  
Old 06-16-2018, 12:00 PM
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catnthehat catnthehat is offline
 
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Hunting rifle? Fixed 6 leupold, out it on, zero it at 200 yards, start killin' stuff!
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  #41  
Old 06-16-2018, 12:10 PM
oilngas oilngas is online now
 
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see what cat said. Leupold service is in Okotoks and they do an outstanding job.
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  #42  
Old 06-16-2018, 12:18 PM
West O'5 West O'5 is offline
 
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Yes,Vortex sells a metric shot tonne of scopes touting their reputation for an excellent/no questions asked/repair or replace warranty....but that warranty gets used ALOT!
Well thanks anyway,but warranty doesn't help when I'm 6hrs from home and 80km in bush in a wall tent on Nov.10th beginning a 7 day hunt.
Leupold....the best warranty you will never use.
I would look for a gently used VX3 3-9x40 that falls within your budget,or save a few more bucks and buy new?
Duplex reticle with CDS dials will be more then adequate for the shooting you describe.Personally,I would stick with the standard MOA CDS dial that comes with new scope and not worry about ordering any custom CDS dial calibrated to your load for a cpl years at least,or until you have found "THE Load" that you are happy with.
I DO like mildot/mil-rad reticles,and it's a fun and useful skill to develop milrad reticle ranging,but generally not necessary for typical hunting range shots 300y and less,which will cover probably 95%+ of the hunting situation shots you will face unless you purposely set out to engage in long range hunting.Milrad/mildot reticles can be a bit too busy for many tastes as well for a hunting scope,to each their own.
I'd steer clear of BDC reticles imho they are more of a gimmick marketed towards less knowledgeable shooters that want an easy range/aim/shoot aiming solution....Generation Instant Gratification.
1)they are rarely if ever calibrated as advertised for your particular rifle/load.....you'll still need to do a ton of shooting to verify the holdovers.
2)they don't do anything that can't be be accomplished just as easy or easier with a mildot/milrad/MOA reticle.
3)again,they don't do anything that can't be done with a simple duplex reticle and standard exposed turrets or Leupold CDS.
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Last edited by West O'5; 06-16-2018 at 12:39 PM.
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  #43  
Old 06-16-2018, 12:47 PM
SakoShooter SakoShooter is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West O'5 View Post
I would look for a gently used VX3 3-9x40 that falls within your budget,or save a few more bucks and buy new?
https://www.precisionoptics.net/Leup..._p/l170680.htm

I realise they above link is out of stock, but I'm fairly certain P&D has the same pricing. It's within the stated $4-600 budget. Yes, a CDS dial will add something to the price.

The thing is, Leupold has dropped their prices recently, so you'll be unlikely to find a slightly used VX-3 for much less than this.
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  #44  
Old 06-16-2018, 12:51 PM
West O'5 West O'5 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakoShooter View Post
https://www.precisionoptics.net/Leup..._p/l170680.htm

I realise they above link is out of stock, but I'm fairly certain P&D has the same pricing. It's within the stated $4-600 budget. Yes, a CDS dial will add something to the price.

The thing is, Leupold has dropped their prices recently, so you'll be unlikely to find a slightly used VX-3 for much less than this.
Yes,and to the OP,keep in mind that "most" pre-CDS model Leupold can be retrofitted with CDS dial system.
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  #45  
Old 06-16-2018, 01:00 PM
SakoShooter SakoShooter is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West O'5 View Post
Yes,and to the OP,keep in mind that "most" pre-CDS model Leupold can be retrofitted with CDS dial system.
For a little over $200 I think, so not exactly cheap.
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  #46  
Old 06-16-2018, 08:42 PM
mattthegorby mattthegorby is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West O'5 View Post
Yes,and to the OP,keep in mind that "most" pre-CDS model Leupold can be retrofitted with CDS dial system.
Thanks, I am not ready to order a custom turret. Just starting reloading as well and it will be awhile before I know what my go to load will be.
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  #47  
Old 06-16-2018, 08:50 PM
mattthegorby mattthegorby is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West O'5 View Post
Yes,Vortex sells a metric shot tonne of scopes touting their reputation for an excellent/no questions asked/repair or replace warranty....but that warranty gets used ALOT!
Well thanks anyway,but warranty doesn't help when I'm 6hrs from home and 80km in bush in a wall tent on Nov.10th beginning a 7 day hunt.
Leupold....the best warranty you will never use.
I would look for a gently used VX3 3-9x40 that falls within your budget,or save a few more bucks and buy new?
Duplex reticle with CDS dials will be more then adequate for the shooting you describe.Personally,I would stick with the standard MOA CDS dial that comes with new scope and not worry about ordering any custom CDS dial calibrated to your load for a cpl years at least,or until you have found "THE Load" that you are happy with.
I DO like mildot/mil-rad reticles,and it's a fun and useful skill to develop milrad reticle ranging,but generally not necessary for typical hunting range shots 300y and less,which will cover probably 95%+ of the hunting situation shots you will face unless you purposely set out to engage in long range hunting.Milrad/mildot reticles can be a bit too busy for many tastes as well for a hunting scope,to each their own.
I'd steer clear of BDC reticles imho they are more of a gimmick marketed towards less knowledgeable shooters that want an easy range/aim/shoot aiming solution....Generation Instant Gratification.
1)they are rarely if ever calibrated as advertised for your particular rifle/load.....you'll still need to do a ton of shooting to verify the holdovers.
2)they don't do anything that can't be be accomplished just as easy or easier with a mildot/milrad/MOA reticle.
3)again,they don't do anything that can't be done with a simple duplex reticle and standard exposed turrets or Leupold CDS.
I would like a basic mildot/milrad/MOA reticle. Like you say, I think it would be fun to play with and figure out ranging. I need something I can hunt with, but I will be spending a ton of time just shooting as an end to itself.
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  #48  
Old 06-17-2018, 07:42 PM
Northwinds308 Northwinds308 is offline
 
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Generally speaking you’ll always have a trade off. If it’s more for target, exposed turrets and a mil reticle are great. If it’s more for hunting, they screw over more people than they help IMO.

I’ve set up a few friends that were new hunters and I pretty much always recommend Nikon for a entry level hunting scope. They have better glass at their price point (to my eyes) than Leupold or Bushnell. I don’t trust Vortex lower end stuff. I do have a Gen 1 PST and a Gen II Razor on my coyote and precision rifle, but those aren’t my hunting rifles. They are also both over $1000 (at time of purchase). My hunting rifle has a Zeiss Conquest HD5.

If you’re just shooting target at 600, anything with a BDC reticle that has enough elevation can get you out there having fun. If you want to shoot animals at 600, you may need to put out a bit more money for an optic. Starting to get into the $1000 price point.

Glass quality beats more magnification every time.

Vortex makes a few hunting/tactical scopes that are supposed to do both, but I find they just do neither well and tend to confuse people more than they help. Just buy the best scope you can afford because nothing hamstrings your capability to shoot faster than a crappy optic on a good rifle.
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  #49  
Old 06-17-2018, 07:55 PM
Northwinds308 Northwinds308 is offline
 
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I will disagree with West O’5, while a BDC reticle has to be calibrated to your load, it’s not hard to do with a ballistic calculator and 50 rounds of ammo. You’re going to do the same with any mil reticle. The Z-600 is easier to not get lost in than a mil reticle as well, as the tree design makes it so the bigger ranges have longer lines and every line is numbered.

Swaro even has their BDC as a mil based system

I prefer BDC’s to turrets when hunting because I don’t have to come back out and dial as an animal is walking. I can keep the animal in view and have my partner/spotter read me the range, then adjust and fire on the fly. I put my Data On Previous Engagement (doesn’t like the acronym) on the inside of my scope cap and it keeps it pretty dummy proof. And with capped turrets, I never have to worry about bumping them. Most of those pros I couldn’t get in a “hunting” scope and would have to go up to a Nightforce or night end Vortex to get, and then I’m suffering in terms of weight and adjustment range I don’t need, as well as cost.
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  #50  
Old 06-19-2018, 09:48 AM
bman940 bman940 is offline
 
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Northwinds308, I agree 100% with you. Nothing like a BDC reticle for hunting. That is one of the reason's I have been using Nikon scopes for so long, in fact long before I started doing some freelance work for them. Dialing in Nikon's BDC reticle on the least expensive scope to the most expensive scope is easy and very accurate. We have shot soda cans in excess of 600 yards using Nikon's Spot On Ballistic Program and just entering our shooting data. Simple and accurate. you just need a rangefinder and you are good to go.
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  #51  
Old 06-19-2018, 10:31 AM
Nyksta Nyksta is offline
 
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Vortex works fine. Ive been using their viper pst, viper hs, diamondback scopes, viper hd binos, diamondback binos, monoculars, and rangefinders for years and have only ever had one issue with a new rangefinder. I used their warranty and sent it to ontario and had a replacement unit in my hands 4 days later. These naysayers are just feeling remorse about spending so much more on the other brands for similar quality. Buy what you want and what fits in your budget.

Last edited by Nyksta; 06-19-2018 at 10:44 AM.
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