Regina Mass Burial Site

[sns2]

Originally Posted by roper1

It's impossible to support the Church's position, but they thought they were doing the right thing. Some good stories, many bad ones, but I've seen a lot of stories become accepted fact by the third recital. Just so hard to look at that time in history with this time's lens.

I feel for our Indigenous peoples, I just have no concept how accurate the stories are. Cause & effect, I wonder if there were kids better off in the residential schools?

The vast majority of people during the day would have thought the churches were doing admirable work, if they had any knowledge of the schools.

Of course there were kids who were better off. Dysfunction, domestic violence, and addiction existed in society back then too.

[Phil McCracken]

As I have stated before, the Residential Schools were, and will always be a very dark cloud in Canadian history.

I personally believe that the frustration, anger, fear, and sorrow we are witnessing today is mainly due to the lack of the actual truth. Further, many have questions that are not being truthfully answered by the institutions.

Some say it is because of lost/destroyed records. Some blame the institutions (and rightly so) for being silent.

The mainstream media outlets are not helping at all. They did a poor job reporting this entire story from the start.

I believe that NOK notifications were made to many of the affected families. Having said that, some may not have been made. The real reasons why will never be known.

I believe that some of the families, after the NOK, picked up and returned the remains to their reservations, and conducted respectful burials.

As to the families that could not pick up the remains for whatever reasons, I believe the church/government could have made a much greater effort to assist the families with this. They chose to bury the remains in cemeteries.

I also believe that there are still many remaining records in the "archives" that will never be released to the general public.

I would love to see the affected parties aggressively followup on that!

Many a few more questions could be answered then.

But it will probably never happen.

[wildwoods]

Ok I am really confused here. If you read the article, the first nations man who gives commentary mentions there are bodies "outside the cemetery". It sounds to me as if they radared a known cemetery and found bodies. In all due respect to first nations, of whom I associate with and have many friends of: Why is there instant accusation of a crime? I'm not a Catholic Church apologist. They have their checkered history (to put it mildly). What am I missing here?

Could this not just have simply been a decades/centuries old burial ground? Pandemics, fires, flood, life in general? I am sincerely asking and do not mean any disrespect. The reporting on this seems misleading and very little facts are coming to light.

[hilt134]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

Ok I am really confused here. If you read the article, the first nations man who gives commentary mentions there are bodies "outside the cemetery". It sounds to me as if they radared a known cemetery and found bodies. In all due respect to first nations, of whom I associate with and have many friends of: Why is there instant accusation of a crime? I'm not a Catholic Church apologist. They have their checkered history (to put it mildly). What am I missing here?

Could this not just have simply been a decades/centuries old burial ground? Pandemics, fires, flood, life in general? I am sincerely asking and do not mean any disrespect. The reporting on this seems misleading and very little facts are coming to light.

As far as it goes what needs to be found out is what level of records the Catholic Church had of the cemetery, if there where grave markers. If there where grave markers, why where they removed. As far as it goes it’s likely a mix, being near to a school it most certainly had people from their in it. It likely also had locals buried in it as well. The instant accusation has its own benefit. It makes everything more sensational and helps drive clicks amd views into other articles and it helps push an agenda.

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by hilt134

One thing I am wondering is why are we only hearing about this particular site now? If the First Nations took over the cemetery back then I wouldnt exactly call it a new discovery. Also the church owes an explanation as to whether or not the graves where ever marked in anyway. It’s not a forgone conclusion that they where.

There were several requests for funding these investigations during the TRC process that were denied. We are only hearing about this now because we actively avoided the subject.

[kingrat]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

Ok I am really confused here. If you read the article, the first nations man who gives commentary mentions there are bodies "outside the cemetery". It sounds to me as if they radared a known cemetery and found bodies. In all due respect to first nations, of whom I associate with and have many friends of: Why is there instant accusation of a crime? I'm not a Catholic Church apologist. They have their checkered history (to put it mildly). What am I missing here?

Could this not just have simply been a decades/centuries old burial ground? Pandemics, fires, flood, life in general? I am sincerely asking and do not mean any disrespect. The reporting on this seems misleading and very little facts are coming to light.

That's exactly what it is. It's a known graveyard dating back to 1885. For whatever reason the markers were destroyed and or removed and yes I'm sure there is kids buried there. But saying 700 and some unmarked graves discovered just sounds way better in the news.

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by kingrat

That's exactly what it is. It's a known graveyard dating back to 1885. For whatever reason the markers were destroyed and or removed and yes I'm sure there is kids buried there. But saying 700 and some unmarked graves discovered just sounds way better in the news.

Honest journalism is as scarce as an honest politician.

[bat119]

First off Cowessess is 100 kms. from Regina
I'm sure if you go to any known graveyard with the grave markers removed you will find graves the real question is who is in the graves.

There must be records if the Catholics won't give them up the Trudeau government should help out, the schools were funded by the government the amount they received would be based on the number of students where are their records? There should be medical records, death certificates, reports, inspections and if the markers were removed in the 50 or 60's somebody living would have some information.

I have no doubt there were shady goings on at the res schools the real truth should come out

[kingrat]

I would be surprised if there are in fact any records for the church to give. I would think they got misplaced/ "accidentally" destroyed or maybe even given to the government along time ago. I wouldnt/dont trust either one.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

Honest journalism is as scarce as an honest politician.

All about sensationalism. Juicy sells.

[CMichaud]

Originally Posted by kingrat

I would be surprised if there are in fact any records for the church to give. I would think they got misplaced/ "accidentally" destroyed or maybe even given to the government along time ago. I wouldnt/dont trust either one.

Catholic group to release all records from B.C. and Saskatchewan residential schools

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...late-1.6078260

Excerpt

"We remain deeply sorry for our involvement in residential schools and the harms they brought to Indigenous peoples and communities,'' said a statement.

Indigenous leaders and others have been calling for the release of all documents related to residential schools.

In the statement, the oblates said they have worked to make historical documents available through universities, archives and the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

They said the work is not complete because of complications with provincial and national privacy laws. They asked for guidance from organizations familiar with those laws.

"We further acknowledge that delays can cause ongoing distrust, distress and trauma to Indigenous peoples across British Columbia, Saskatchewan and the rest of the country,'' the statement said.

The oblates said they won't block access to historical documents they have. They also committed to seeking guidance from First Nations and governments.

"We will work with bishops and other leaders in the Catholic Church to support full truth in these matters.''

[jetboat175]

I would hope the Catholic Church would have burial plot records and death records for the people that perished under there supervision. But as the news states why would the church intentionally remove grave markers from the graves, that shows no respect. Of course the Catholic Church has never been about respect. I have read alot of interviews from people that attended these schools and I hope a full investigation is done. The Catholic Church should take full responsibility for its actions and and be held accountable. How many life's can a church continue to destroy.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by roper1

It's impossible to support the Church's position, but they thought they were doing the right thing. Some good stories, many bad ones, but I've seen a lot of stories become accepted fact by the third recital. Just so hard to look at that time in history with this time's lens.

I feel for our Indigenous peoples, I just have no concept how accurate the stories are. Cause & effect, I wonder if there were kids better off in the residential schools?

And that right there is the crux. It's like wildfire. Even someone on this thread posted a story that said 30,000 dead children. Gimme a break. That's one in 5 kids that went to a res school. They were hellholes for sure, but they weren't death camps. My goodness. Sensationalism sucks.

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by sns2

And that right there is the crux. It's like wildfire. Even someone on this thread posted a story that said 30,000 dead children. Gimme a break. That's one in 5 kids that went to a res school. They were hellholes for sure, but they weren't death camps. My goodness. Sensationalism sucks.

Not sure where the figure of 30k came from but I am going to say it will exceed a few hundred and into a few thousand. Regardless of the number if it was one that would be one too many.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

Not sure where the figure of 30k came from but I am going to say it will exceed a few hundred and into a few thousand. Regardless of the number if it was one that would be one too many.

Some writer, note I don't say journalist, looking to get reads at the cost of others' pain. Sickening.

[nelsonob1]

Originally Posted by jetboat175

I would hope the Catholic Church would have burial plot records and death records for the people that perished under there supervision. But as the news states why would the church intentionally remove grave markers from the graves, that shows no respect. Of course the Catholic Church has never been about respect. I have read alot of interviews from people that attended these schools and I hope a full investigation is done. The Catholic Church should take full responsibility for its actions and and be held accountable. How many life's can a church continue to destroy.

News is reporting that the grave markers were bulldosed by a priest as an act of dispute with the local chief.

[hilt134]

Originally Posted by jetboat175

I would hope the Catholic Church would have burial plot records and death records for the people that perished under there supervision. But as the news states why would the church intentionally remove grave markers from the graves, that shows no respect. Of course the Catholic Church has never been about respect. I have read alot of interviews from people that attended these schools and I hope a full investigation is done. The Catholic Church should take full responsibility for its actions and and be held accountable. How many life's can a church continue to destroy.

Yet again I don’t think you can punish the current church for a problem that could of began in the 1830’s. It’s the issue I have with the 92 point of the TRC. In what way is punishing a group of people for something they didn’t have anything to do with going to right a wrong? Maybe punish is too harsh but the point is there.

[sask]

Originally Posted by kingrat

I would be surprised if there are in fact any records for the church to give. I would think they got misplaced/ "accidentally" destroyed or maybe even given to the government along time ago. I wouldnt/dont trust either one.

I thought ( and think regarding the trust issue) the same but...

Spoke with a friend who was legal counsel on a number of sexual abuse/pedofile cases, residential schools . In his words the Catholic Church maintained ‘amazing ‘ records.

As difficult as it was to obtain these records, in his words ‘once the records were (required to be) made available “the case was effectively over”.

Comes from a very experienced, qualified and ‘good’ person

Blows my mind

[RandyBoBandy]

My mother is 89 yrs old and I listened to her recollection of residential schools. I couldn't even try to repeat what she said

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by jetboat175

I would hope the Catholic Church would have burial plot records and death records for the people that perished under there supervision. But as the news states why would the church intentionally remove grave markers from the graves, that shows no respect. Of course the Catholic Church has never been about respect. I have read alot of interviews from people that attended these schools and I hope a full investigation is done. The Catholic Church should take full responsibility for its actions and and be held accountable. How many life's can a church continue to destroy.

Not making excuses but in Europe grave markers are routinely removed from old graves. Many graves are only “yours” for 70 years… these are way beyond 70 years old.

[sewerrat]

It is super sad by what is all happening and with the media being so one sided how do did these children die? Back in the day there were some terrible diseases going around like polio.
Back in the 18 hundreds a up until the 1930 100.000 children were shipped from the UK to Canada to be “slaves” and thousands of kids died.
The Japanese build Canada’s railroad, thousands of these men died.

Why aren’t the Japanese and the Brits holding up their hand for money.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by sewerrat

It is super sad by what is all happening and with the media being so one sided how do did these children die? Back in the day there were some terrible diseases going around like polio.
Back in the 18 hundreds a up until the 1930 100.000 children were shipped from the UK to Canada to be “slaves” and thousands of kids died.
The Japanese build Canada’s railroad, thousands of these men died.

Why aren’t the Japanese and the Brits holding up their hand for money.

Oh for....

And Check again

A hint:
"Around 15,000 Chinese labourers helped to build the Canadian Pacific Railway — working in harsh conditions for little pay, they suffered greatly and historians estimate that at least 600 died."

Far from the same things.

[westwest]

https://leaderpost.com/news/saskatch...esite-upgrades

Read up and look at the date... the said area was made part of the reserve in the 1960’s.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by westwest

https://leaderpost.com/news/saskatch...esite-upgrades

Read up and look at the date... the said area was made part of the reserve in the 1960’s.

And this is why I have said consistently that if there is new information, then the graves need to be dug up, remains identified as best as possible, and causes of death determined.

Residential Schools, the whole idea and operation of them is beyond repugnant by all standards, but jet fuel does not need to be poured on an already raging fire.

Ignore sensationalism people. It damages any hope at better understanding.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by hogie

The government and the church are the ones at blame.

Current Canadians have sorrow and disgust for what was done. We recognize what was done is wrong. We can unite over this and try to overcome it or we will be further divided. It will take both sides to make things better.

I'm not trying to pick on hogie. Several posters have said about the same thing.

I think that there are still too many Canadians that have similar attitudes to those who created and supported the Residential Schools. This morning I see in the news a definite hate crime where a man in Saskatoon was attacked and stabbed for being Muslim. Looks like a similar attack in Calgary that didn't end in injury.
(https://saskatoon.ctvnews.ca/saskato...rime-1.5485986
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...tack-1.6081490)

A majority of Canadians deplore the racism and prejudice that led to the genocidal practices of the Residential Schools. Unfortunately, there are still some people who turn their racist emotions into harmful action.

The last two sentences in the quote above are the answer. Canadians must all work together to erase these attitudes from our collective culture.

[walking buffalo]

I'll share my experience with a First Nation and their cemetery.


About ten years ago I was approached by Elders and a Councilor to make headstones for possibly a couple hundred graves.

These graves ranged in age, some were marked with rotten little wood crosses, many missing any marker at all.
The cemetery records were only partial complete.
Many sites were only noted by the current grave marker.
I was told that there was also many individual unmarked graves within the cemetery that were not recorded in any leger, these would have to be found as best as possible through scanning.

In addition, there is an area which is a mass grave.
During a disease outbreak in the early 1900's people of this small Nation were dying daily, gravediggers included.
It is unknown who or how many people are buried in this area.

As First Nations receive Federal Funding for cemeteries and headstones, there was an amount of unspent funds expected to be directed to this project.


Well, my direction to submit a proposal and budget to locate, record and mark all gravesites opened the can.

Suddenly certainly people went quiet and avoided meetings.
More people became involved in the inquiry.
The money was gone.
Pretty sure I was used to expose this fact.

For many years, poor record keeping of their own cemetery and fraudulent use of funds has created a mess.
To this day the graves have yet to be located and recorded or marked.

[MrDave]

Williams Lake is currently doing it's scan. Expect another thread next week or so. I find it funny that people don't realize that the church is still running residential schools, just in other countries.

Sure looks like we need way more education done on actual Canadian history.

[270person]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

I'll share my experience with a First Nation and their cemetery.

As First Nations receive Federal Funding for cemeteries and headstones, there was an amount of unspent funds expected to be directed to this project.

Well, my direction to submit a proposal and budget to locate, record and mark all gravesites opened the can.

Suddenly certainly people went quiet and avoided meetings.
More people became involved in the inquiry.
The money was gone.
Pretty sure I was used to expose this fact.

For many years, poor record keeping of their own cemetery and fraudulent use of funds has created a mess.
To this day the graves have yet to be located and recorded or marked.

But the moneys spent. Hmm.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by Freedom55

This is going to continue well into the decade. With all the monies being made available to pay for the searches and the number of these dungeons authorized by the white citizens of this nation these reports will be frequent and more heartbreaking. Do we need a new thread every time?

Free

Maybe this is a better idea, then everyone can just forget about it again.

[270person]

Originally Posted by Freedom55

This is going to continue well into the decade. With all the monies being made available to pay for the searches and the number of these dungeons authorized by the white citizens of this nation these reports will be frequent and more heartbreaking. Do we need a new thread every time?

Free

I don't believe the dungeons as you call them were authorized by the majority of white citizens of this nation at all. This is on the churches and government at the time. Nobody else.