Should you be able to grab an undersubscribed antlerless elk tag and general tag?

DiabeticKripple · #1 07-19-2021, 02:30 AM

I was just looking at the undersubscribed tags still available, and there is a ton of antlerless elk tags left.

I would grab one if I wasn't planning on hunting archery general this season as well.

So my question to you guys is, should you be able to pick up an undersubscribed antlerless elk tag, while also holding a general elk tag?

It would make sense to me especially in zones that they want to reduce elk numbers. I would say a high percentage of general tags go unfilled every year, and it would offer a chance at filling your freezer with elk meat if you struck out during the general season.

Im only talking undersubscribed tags, if you draw antlered/antlerless tags then this doesnt apply. Only with general elk + undersubscribed antlerless.

bezzola · #2 07-19-2021, 05:15 AM

Where did you find the unsubscribed tags I can’t see them on the relm app

DiabeticKripple · #3 07-19-2021, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bezzola

Where did you find the unsubscribed tags I can’t see them on the relm app

check the website, the app doesnt show them.

bucksman · #4 07-19-2021, 06:43 AM

Im curious about the no voters, what is the reasoning? There was up to 700 tags left over in some zones....

Bushrat · #5 07-19-2021, 07:03 AM

I didn't vote on the poll, I don't know what the elk numbers are like anywhere else but in the zones I hunt, live and tour around in the off season the numbers are way down compared to what they were 15 to 20 years ago which even back then were never very high. We barely have a remnant population around here now.

-JR- · #6 07-19-2021, 07:06 AM

Nope ,can't have both ! Not fair either ,if you now have two tags and i have none because you got greedy . This is what the system is all about ,every one having an equal chance.

One day they will have draws for campground stalls for the weekends .
They are all booked as soon as the system is open .I am sure same people book every week end in a row .

StiksnStrings · #7 07-19-2021, 07:08 AM

If the end goal is to reduce numbers and the undersubscribed tags aren't selling I see no reason someone with a general tag in hand should not be allowed to purchase an undersubscribed tag.

Lefty-Canuck · #8 07-19-2021, 07:15 AM

Many undersubscribed are in difficult zones or difficult to get permission zones, success rates are low.

But it offers opportunity, success is always up to the hunter to do their homework.

LC

elkhunter11 · #9 07-19-2021, 07:25 AM

I would be okay with letting someone who holds a general tag purchasing an undersubscribed antlerless tag, after one week of the undersubscribed tags being made available. That way anyone without any elk tag would have the opportunity to purchase one, before any hunters are allowed to hold two elk tags. This would give everyone equal opportunity to hunt elk, but would also help with controlling elk numbers.

DiabeticKripple · #10 07-19-2021, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -JR-

Nope ,can't have both ! Not fair either ,if you now have two tags and i have none because you got greedy . This is what the system is all about ,every one having an equal chance.

One day they will have draws for campground stalls for the weekends .
They are all booked as soon as the system is open .I am sure same people book every week end in a row .

It’s equal opportunity, not greed.

Both tags are available over the counter essentially. You can just buy them when available.

DirtShooter · #11 07-19-2021, 07:36 AM

I say yes, why not? It's undersub'd for a reason. And it generally is a late season IE after Nov. 30 when the general seasons are completed. I'd love to archery hunt an elk AND try for a late season cow.

Dean2 · #12 07-19-2021, 07:46 AM

The guys that buy General Bull tags are usually pretty serious about their Elk hunting. If you want to reduce the number of Elk in an area then yes, they should be able to pull a cow elk too, not just in the under subscribed, but actually put in for the draw so they can hunt cow while chasing bulls. Most of the under subscribed tags are later seasons and not in prime Bull Elk hunting time. There is a lot more chance the guys that regularly hunt Bulls will fill the antlerless tag than the average guy who puts in for an antlerless, just in case he sees one.

cody j · #13 07-19-2021, 07:53 AM

In wmus with lots of elk and elk problems people should be able to get both tags

Hilgy · #14 07-19-2021, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

I was just looking at the undersubscribed tags still available, and there is a ton of antlerless elk tags left.

I would grab one if I wasn't planning on hunting archery general this season as well.

So my question to you guys is, should you be able to pick up an undersubscribed antlerless elk tag, while also holding a general elk tag?

It would make sense to me especially in zones that they want to reduce elk numbers. I would say a high percentage of general tags go unfilled every year, and it would offer a chance at filling your freezer with elk meat if you struck out during the general season.

Im only talking undersubscribed tags, if you draw antlered/antlerless tags then this doesnt apply. Only with general elk + undersubscribed antlerless.

More Fracing less polls.....

In all serious though i dont see an issue with it. One thing they could do to appease the " its not fair for everybody" crowd is to say that you aren't eligible for an undersubscribed tag until your general is cut or the season is over. At that point if there are still undersub tags up for grabs then have at er.

Also you dont have enough freezer space for all this stuff anyways....

DiabeticKripple · #15 07-19-2021, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hilgy

More Fracing less polls.....

In all serious though i dont see an issue with it. One thing they could do to appease the " its not fair for everybody" crowd is to say that you aren't eligible for an undersubscribed tag until your general is cut or the season is over. At that point if there are still undersub tags up for grabs then have at er.

Also you dont have enough freezer space for all this stuff anyways....

Can you tell I’m on nightshift?

Freezer ain’t full yet! But between the elk tag, moose tag, and 3 deer tags I should be able to put something in it

capncrunch1111 · #16 07-19-2021, 09:09 AM

I'd say they should include the Suffield antlerless elk tag as an exception along with the 212 elk tags.

I applied and got drawn for a Suffield antlerless elk tag, but at the time it didn't even cross my mind that I wouldn't be able to buy a general elk tag. If I thought about that I wouldn't have used my points for the Suffield tag. Kind of annoyed at myself thinking about this now.

Oh well I'll know better for next time around.

I've never done the Suffield hunt before, hopefully at least its a good time with some success.

calgarychef · #17 07-19-2021, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capncrunch1111

I'd say they should include the Suffield antlerless elk tag as an exception along with the 212 elk tags.

I applied and got drawn for a Suffield antlerless elk tag, but at the time it didn't even cross my mind that I wouldn't be able to buy a general elk tag. If I thought about that I wouldn't have used my points for the Suffield tag. Kind of annoyed at myself thinking about this now.

Oh well I'll know better for next time around.

I've never done the Suffield hunt before, hopefully at least its a good time with some success.

Agreed.

Ackleyman · #18 07-19-2021, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -JR-

Nope ,can't have both ! Not fair either ,if you now have two tags and i have none because you got greedy . This is what the system is all about ,every one having an equal chance.

One day they will have draws for campground stalls for the weekends .
They are all booked as soon as the system is open .I am sure same people book every week end in a row .

Don't insult the man , he is not being greedy. He just thu out a reasonable thought / question.
I think it would be fair to let people who do not have a general or draw to get first crack. If there are still tags left over then even if a person has a general have at er.

daveyn · #19 07-19-2021, 12:06 PM

Totally on side with not being able to apply for 2 draw tags, but if after everybody has had a crack at the draw and there are still tags available then why should they not be available to anybody, regardless of what tags you already have? Its not like you are preventing anybody who really wants one from having one. If its undersubscribed then everybody who really wanted one already has one, so open it up.

7magtime · #20 07-19-2021, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I would be okay with letting someone who holds a general tag purchasing an undersubscribed antlerless tag, after one week of the undersubscribed tags being made available. That way anyone without any elk tag would have the opportunity to purchase one, before any hunters are allowed to hold two elk tags. This would give everyone equal opportunity to hunt elk, but would also help with controlling elk numbers.

Agreed elk.
I'd be good with all the undersubscribed antlerless elk tags being available to hunters without a general tag until August 1st and then they open up to hunters who already have a general tag. That would give hunters without a general tag 2-3 weeks from the draw results release to figure out their hunts for the fall and pick up undersubscribed tags prior to the general elk tag holders having access to what's left over....

Dean2 · #21 07-19-2021, 01:31 PM

I am honestly really surprised the vote is so heavily in favour of no. I would never have expected that hunters would have a problem with a guy being able to hold a general bull tag and a cow tag at the same time. One tag there are enough bulls and the success rate is low enough that you can sell a tag to anyone that wants one, and there are so many excess cow elk in some areas that the full number of tags aren't being applied for. Learn something new every day.

KJP · #22 07-19-2021, 03:33 PM

They should make elk similar to the general white-tailed deer licence. It can be used for a bull or a cow! I have said this for decades - it would solve a lot of issues in my mind.

wildwoods · #23 07-19-2021, 04:03 PM

Undersubscribed tags have nothing to do with opportunity- it’s about management. Who cares if someone has 2 tags. If it accomplishes that goal and nobody applied for them prior, why all of a sudden do we care about it? Anyone could have applied earlier via the draw….

macee · #24 07-19-2021, 04:28 PM

Elk should be like Antelope you can apply for both but only get draw for one.

fishnguy · #25 07-19-2021, 05:09 PM

^ What is the point? For the zones I am concerned about, antlered is an over the counter tag and there is a good chance one would be drawn for antlerless the very first year they apply, even for a “prime” season. For example, I always have a priority point just in case I decide I want to shoot a cow vs chasing a bull one season and I know that with 1 point I will be drawn 100% at any time I want. Then, I apply for priority only the next season and just keep that point for the next such occasion. It doesn’t take years of waiting and collecting priority in those zones; hence, a large number of undersubscribed tags available every year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean2

I am honestly really surprised the vote is so heavily in favour of no. I would never have expected that hunters would have a problem with a guy being able to hold a general bull tag and a cow tag at the same time. One tag there are enough bulls and the success rate is low enough that you can sell a tag to anyone that wants one, and there are so many excess cow elk in some areas that the full number of tags aren't being applied for. Learn something new every day.

Same. Not sure what the reason is either because it doesn’t look like those voting “no” are explaining what their thought process is. I wrote in the “cull” thread not long ago (or so it seems) that I think guys hunting bulls should be able to buy an undersubscribed antlerless tag if so desired.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildwoods

Undersubscribed tags have nothing to do with opportunity- it’s about management. Who cares if someone has 2 tags. If it accomplishes that goal and nobody applied for them prior, why all of a sudden do we care about it? Anyone could have applied earlier via the draw….

For sure.

Currently:

Clearly, there isn’t much interest in some zones. And it is the same every year. Some years they “sell out”, others they don’t. Shame and wierd, because then there are talks about culling elk, etc. Once those talks start, some people complain, others say they understand and there is no other option. Imo, the option is pretty clear to me and it is sell those tags to all those who want them. Those people likely can close both tags most of the time too because those going for bulls in those WMU’s more often than not know where they are and how to get them. Getting a cow is nothing in comparison. By no means this takes an opportunity from someone else because everyone can apply for an antlerless draw or simply head to the store and buy an antlered tag for most (all?) of those WMU’s. Alas, we have what we have.

270person · #26 07-19-2021, 06:02 PM

I brought this exact same point up in the previous elk thread. Absolutely you should be should be able to buy an undersubscribed antlerless tag IF, a specified time frame passes between the original antlerless draw date and tags still remain, and/or if demand for them has dried up.

I buy a general antlered elk tag every year and hunt the same 3 wmu's, 2 of which have a boatload of antlerless undersubscribed every year. If I don't harvest my bull by end of general season why shouldnt I be able to buy an undersubscribed tag then? If I want to extend my elk season from Sept. 17 to sometime in January who is it hurting? Nobody, and anyone arguing to the contrary really hasn't thought things through. I could potentially get one elk per year however things work out. Via general OR via undersubscibed

My caveat is that I'd only be able to purchase an undersubscribed "after" the general bull tag expires, and then obviously only if there were undersubscribed tags available. If I have to do a harvest survey immediately after general closes then cool. Government gets 3 things they weren't getting prior. Quicker harvest report, more revenue, and cow numbers reduced.

I don't think harvesting 2 elk per year potentially is right, but if I don't get a bull early, why not a cow later if nobody else shows interest. Not having that opportunity doesn't just defy explanation, it's flat out stupid. One elk per year is the ask. My preference early or a second option later.

Hell, even if I do harvest a bull in early season, if tags are going to go unused and the biologists support the cow harvest numbers, why should anyone care if I get my bull AND an undersubscribed cow? I wouldn't be taking an animal from anyone.

There are landowners in these undersubscribed areas that would love guys to help thin things out. I know several who sit and watch cow elk hammering feed in their horse corrals through their kitchen windows in Dec-Jan with no option but to call up the closest reserve for volunteers to come and cull. Maybe thats what this polls NO voters prefer. Elk getting shot with zero $$$ flowing back into the provinces coffers? Seriously, give your heads a shake boys.

270person · #27 07-19-2021, 06:23 PM

I brought this exact same point up in the previous elk thread. Absolutely you should be should be able to buy an undersubscribed antlerless tag IF, after a certain amount of time passes between the original draw dates, and if demand for them has dried up and there are still antlerless tags available.

I buy a general antlered elk tag every year and hunt the same 3 wmu's, 2 of which have a boatload of antlerless undersubscribed every year. If I don't harvest my bull by end of general season why shouldnt I be able to buy an undersubscribed tag? If I want to extend my elk season from Sept. 17 to sometime in January who is it hurting? Nobody and anyone arguing to the contrary really hasn't thought things through. I could potentially get one elk per year however things work out. Via general or undersubscibed

My caveat is that I'd only be able to purchase an undersubscribed "after" the general bull tag expires, and then obviously only if there were undersubscribed tags available. If I have to do a harvest survey immediately after general closes then cool. Government gets 3 things they weren't getting prior. Quicker harvest report, more revenue, and cow numbers reduced.

I don't think harvesting 2 elk per year potentially is right, but if I don't get a bull early, why not a cow later if nobody else shows interest. Not having that opportunity doesn't just defy explanation, it's flat out stupid.

There are landowners in these undersubscribed areas that would love guys to help thin things out. I know several who sit and watch cow elk hammering feed in their horse corrals through their kitchen windows in Dec-Jan with no option but to call up the closest reserve for volunteers to come and cull. Maybe thats what this polls NO voters prefer. Elk getting shot with zero $$$ flowing back into the provinces coffers? Seriously, give your heads a shake boys.

DiabeticKripple · #28 07-19-2021, 07:15 PM

seems like the majority of the people replying to the thread are in favor of it, i want to hear from the guys that arent and why they arent.

Im surprised that there are so many no votes.

270person · #29 07-19-2021, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

seems like the majority of the people replying to the thread are in favor of it, i want to hear from the guys that arent and why they arent.

Im surprised that there are so many no votes.

PETA members?

270person · #30 07-19-2021, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -JR-

Nope ,can't have both ! Not fair either ,if you now have two tags and i have none because you got greedy . This is what the system is all about ,every one having an equal chance.

One day they will have draws for campground stalls for the weekends .
They are all booked as soon as the system is open .I am sure same people book every week end in a row .

How is it greedy if everyone and their dog can buy a general tag and 100 undersubscribed antlerless tags sit unused in December JR?

What do you see as greedy if I don't get my bull in the early season with my general tag, but 100 undersubscribed antlerless tags sit collecting dust when that season closes. I'm still harvesting only one elk...potentially.

It'd be ironic if you ever bought supplemental whitetail tags. You ok with hunters taking 3 whitetail in a season? Are you ok with 16th generation metis, blonder and paler than I am taking animals 24/7/365?