Mule deer draws delayed

[KBF]

Originally Posted by J.B.

The way I read the chart those are the resident tags?
Could be wrong...

correct

[7magtime]

Originally Posted by fatboyz

No change to resident permit numbers. They just get to use up last years quota over the next 5 years on top of their regular quota.

So let me know if I’m understanding this correctly…..

APOS lobbied the government last year to allow Albertan’s to purchase their allocations last fall as no out of country hunters were allowed in Canada, many outfitters still made income from Albertan’s buying some(possibly all) of their allocations.

Now APOS has lobbied the government to tack on last years missed allocations(even if they were sold to an Albertan) to be used over the next 5 years which in many WMU’s will be more outfitter tags than the residents are given?(example 400’s moose tags). Many WMU’s had decreased resident tags but most outfitter “COVID” allocations went up.

If that’s the case some outfitters have just been given “the golden handshake” from the government for the next 5 years IMO, at the cost of resident opportunities being taken away…..

[7magtime]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

And if the border stays closed and the outfitters shoot zero
Then what happens?

Residents will have a higher % harvest rate on their draws, less competition for animals and experience a better hunt after waiting years to pull their draw?

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by 7magtime

Residents will have a higher % harvest rate on their draws, less competition for animals and experience a better hunt after waiting years to pull their draw?

Are you referring to the resident hunters that live and pay taxes here?
Or the ones that are just residents while they are here hunting?
And what about the hunter hosts that clog up and compete with residents for draws?

I don’t see the afga fighting to change these major issues

Actually I don’t see them doing too much of anything of value

[marky_mark]

.

[7magtime]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Are you referring to the resident hunters that live and pay taxes here?
Or the ones that are just residents while they are here hunting?
And what about the hunter hosts that clog up and compete with residents for draws?

I don’t see the afga fighting to change these major issues

Actually I don’t see them doing too much of anything of value

Resident hunters that live and pay taxes here.
I agree that the AFGA has been pretty quiet on this and other issues that take away opportunities for resident hunters, that needs to change.

[KyleSS]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Unless there has been an unpublicized amendment to the Outfitter agreement, which certainly could happen in this age of AGPAC and government secret behind the door deals with the outfitters ( ie allowing Residents to use outfitter tags)

the outfitter allocation is NOT based on a five year total that can be used as the outfitter desires, or as the government desires.

The Single Year maximum allocations is established, and this number is agreed to for five years.

Perhaps you are confusing the BC outfitter agreement with Alberta's, which does work from a multi year total.


What we are seeing here is what the demise of AGMAG and the creation of AGPAC in action. Complete secrecy and zero public consultation.
Our government had stolen out wildlife, and is playing games with it based on the input of a cherry picked few.

I FULLY understand how the allocations work

[DRhunter]

Originally Posted by 7magtime

So let me know if I’m understanding this correctly…..

APOS lobbied the government last year to allow Albertan’s to purchase their allocations last fall as no out of country hunters were allowed in Canada, many outfitters still made income from Albertan’s buying some(possibly all) of their allocations.

Now APOS has lobbied the government to tack on last years missed allocations(even if they were sold to an Albertan) to be used over the next 5 years which in many WMU’s will be more outfitter tags than the residents are given?(example 400’s moose tags). Many WMU’s had decreased resident tags but most outfitter “COVID” allocations went up.

If that’s the case some outfitters have just been given “the golden handshake” from the government for the next 5 years IMO, at the cost of resident opportunities being taken away…..

I have not confirmed this, but from what I have heard the extra allocations for Covid are only available if you did not use up that allocation in 2020.

So, if an outfitter had 10 allocations/tags for moose in a zone and sold 5 to AB resident hunters in 2020, they will only receive the 5 tags to be used over the next 5 years as additional Covid tags.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge can confirm this.

DR

[bonedogg]

Originally Posted by ksteed17

There’s not. Those are the numbers for resident hunters in the different seasons. If you look at the column for outfitters there are none listed.

thanks for the clarification and sorry about the mis-read.

[7magtime]

Originally Posted by DRhunter

I have not confirmed this, but from what I have heard the extra allocations for Covid are only available if you did not use up that allocation in 2020.

So, if an outfitter had 10 allocations/tags for moose in a zone and sold 5 to AB resident hunters in 2020, they will only receive the 5 tags to be used over the next 5 years as additional Covid tags.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge can confirm this.

DR

Hopefully your right but I’m not hearing anything in this thread from the usual members that are involved in the outfitting industry so I have my doubts….

[7magtime]

I reached out to AFGA and here’s the response I got:

-they had no consultation or knowledge of outfitter allocations being increased this year until they were advised of the 2021 outfitter allocation links I provided earlier in this thread.

-they had no prior knowledge of the mule deer draw being postponed. It sounds like AFGA wants increased mule deer buck tags in CWD “hot zones” and APOS doesn’t want this, that may be the reason for the delay but it’s speculation at this point with Nixon’s office giving little details to Alberta hunters.

-after AFGA followed up for 349 resident moose tags being slashed for this year, it appears that will be the only WMU having tag numbers “adjusted” back to close to the 2020 tag numbers by the government as it was supposedly a “copy and paste” error. 349 moose hunters, check if this correction happened when the draws are released this week.
There are other WMU's that had resident tag reductions but not as severe as 349 moose, compare the 2020 draw summaries on My WildAlberta to the 2021 resident tag numbers listed in the links above for comparison. That may be a factor on whether you're successful in the draws this week based on the tags given out last year.

Found this link on AGMAC, doesn’t seem like the council is working the way it’s supposed to based on AFGA being left out on some of these important recent decisions. AFGA is working to get the regular meetings back on the table now that Covid seems to be releasing it's grip on Alberta.

https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/2255...-reference.pdf

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

And if the border stays closed and the outfitters shoot zero
Then what happens?

If the outfitters end up shooting 0 then they will be close the the 10% they are allocated in the 400 zones, based on what I’m seeing here in most years they are given almost as many tags as residents in most zones. That is outrageous and should not be allowed, even if they are basing the 10% off a collection of zones you would think that collection would be the mountain zones and they are receiving far more than their 10%. I’m ok with them getting 10% but I’m 41, I live here, pay taxes and realistically if I want to hunt in many of the mountain zones I’ll be able to hunt moose a couple times in my life meanwhile someone with a ton of money or a non resident can do so every single year.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by slough shark

If the outfitters end up shooting 0 then they will be close the the 10% they are allocated in the 400 zones, based on what I’m seeing here in most years they are given almost as many tags as residents in most zones. That is outrageous and should not be allowed, even if they are basing the 10% off a collection of zones you would think that collection would be the mountain zones and they are receiving far more than their 10%. I’m ok with them getting 10% but I’m 41, I live here, pay taxes and realistically if I want to hunt in many of the mountain zones I’ll be able to hunt moose a couple times in my life meanwhile someone with a ton of money or a non resident can do so every single year.

Sounds to me that if you want to hunt moose more often, you need to pic a zone with more opportunities. Just like the rest of us.

Premium zones will always take a long time to draw
Even if you add all the outfitter tags
The wait time will be the same
People just wouldn’t apply for zones that are less desirable
You may have a couple more undersubscribed hunts. That’s about it

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Sounds to me that if you want to hunt moose more often, you need to pic a zone with more opportunities. Just like the rest of us.

Premium zones will always take a long time to draw
Even if you add all the outfitter tags
The wait time will be the same
People just wouldn’t apply for zones that are less desirable
You may have a couple more undersubscribed hunts. That’s about it

That’s the thing, that’s what I’ve done, I have almost given up hope ever hunting moose on my trapline other than with a bow, (Luckily that’s still allowed). It would be nice to hunt there but I hunt elsewhere because I like to eat moose. I suppose I better try to do my best to wipe out all the wolves so that the moose population recovers more so that the outfitters can make more money selling hunts to the rich 🤔.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by slough shark

That’s the thing, that’s what I’ve done, I have almost given up hope ever hunting moose on my trapline other than with a bow, (Luckily that’s still allowed). It would be nice to hunt there but I hunt elsewhere because I like to eat moose. I suppose I better try to do my best to wipe out all the wolves so that the moose population recovers more so that the outfitters can make more money selling hunts to the rich 🤔.

We have land in the 500’s and it takes 6 years to pull a bull moose tag. 145 tags on one side of the highway. 9 on our side. So I understand your frustration with the system and have to play the same game as you.

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

We have land in the 500’s and it takes 6 years to pull a bull moose tag. 145 tags on one side of the highway. 9 on our side. So I understand your frustration with the system and have to play the same game as you.

Part of the frustration is that they don’t see to be playing by the rules set out. How or why is it a thing where outfitters get half the tags in many zones and well over 10% in the rest of the 400’s by and large? To add insult to injury they’re making outfitters get the majority of tags this year out west, that beyond unacceptable

[fishnguy]

Antlered moose for the WMU’s I am interested in:



522: “Everyone’s” tags - 185; Outfitter tags - 32.
523: “Everyone’s” tags - 114; Outfitter tags - 36.

2020 draw summaries indicate the following.

522: “Everyone’s” tags - 195; number of applications - 1,095; average rate of being drawn is 18%.
523: “Everyone’s” tags - 131; number of applications - 932; average rate of being drawn is 14%.

The last 3 years the number of applicants didn’t change much, so assuming the number of applications is the same this year,

522: average rate of being drawn is 17%; adding the outfitter tags to the “everyone” pool - 20%.
523: average rate of being drawn is 12%; adding the outfitter tags to the “everyone” pool - 16%.

[elkhunter11]

If they are going to hand out more mule deer tags, they should allow us to take antlered mule deer during archery season in the wmus that we can currently only take antlerless mule deer without drawing an antlered tag.

[270person]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If they are going to hand out more mule deer tags, they should allow us to take antlered mule deer during archery season in the wmus that we can currently only take antlerless mule deer without drawing an antlered tag.

If they're going to hand out more mule deer tags they should advise those planning on entering draws in advance instead of going about it underhandedly.

You found out 3 days before the draw dates closed that CWD is a bigger problem than you thought it was? IDIOTS.

[SouthWestRanger]

Originally Posted by 270person

If they're going to hand out more mule deer tags they should advise those planning on entering draws in advance instead of going about it underhandedly.

You found out 3 days before the draw dates closed that CWD is a bigger problem than you thought it was? IDIOTS.

^^^
My whole draw strategy was built around archery hunting zones that didn’t need a draw, I was one priority off being able to draw, likely will be able to if they increase tags, I would have put in fit my preferred zone instead of spending the last 4 months scouting and gaining permission in a different zone…

[whitetail Junkie]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If they are going to hand out more mule deer tags, they should allow us to take antlered mule deer during archery season in the wmus that we can currently only take antlerless mule deer without drawing an antlered tag.

they can do that next year and let people know about it before they put in there draws.I would have applied for my p15 bull elk instead of mule deer thjs fall if I knew this gong show was going to happen.

[DiabeticKripple]

if i had known about them potentially culling deer because of CWD, I would have pulled my antlered tag on P8. Terrible decision by our bio's to last minute change the rules of the game. The last deer cull obviously didnt work.

[spazzy]

I put in with a p9 for antlered mule deer , would be nice to get 2 tags if they are going do cull .

[270person]

Originally Posted by southwestranger

^^^
my whole draw strategy was built around archery hunting zones that didn’t need a draw, i was one priority off being able to draw, likely will be able to if they increase tags, i would have put in fit my preferred zone instead of spending the last 4 months scouting and gaining permission in a different zone…

100%

[whitetail Junkie]

Originally Posted by spazzy

I put in with a p9 for antlered mule deer , would be nice to get 2 tags if they are going do cull .

I assume I got 2 tags coming...1 buck and 1 doe and im sure as hell going to be hanging the doe tag on the xmas tree if they hand out thousands on tags.quite a few landowners actually like to see some deer around and might not let anyone on now if the plan is to exterminate...

[elkhunter11]

I needed another year or two to draw my antlered mule tag, but had I heard about a cull, I would have applied to draw this year.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by slough shark

That’s the thing, that’s what I’ve done, I have almost given up hope ever hunting moose on my trapline other than with a bow, (Luckily that’s still allowed). It would be nice to hunt there but I hunt elsewhere because I like to eat moose. I suppose I better try to do my best to wipe out all the wolves so that the moose population recovers more so that the outfitters can make more money selling hunts to the rich 🤔.

Then when the harvest percentage hits the magic 15% you get a draw… archery moose tags will soon only apply to the 248/212 bowzones. Year after year archery harvest increased in the early archery seasons, why? People are concentrating to the few zones you can hunt early moose with archery on a general tag. Even though the number of archers is increasing and is closer to 19% they are using an over 10 year old stat to set the rules. Enjoy while it lasts.

LC

[Snap Shot]

Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie

they can do that next year and let people know about it before they put in there draws.I would have applied for my p15 bull elk instead of mule deer thjs fall if I knew this gong show was going to happen.

I agree this out of know where increase in mule deer licenses should have been mentioned in the draw booklet or some how letting residents know.

[Full Curl Earl]

Thats the truth. Write the branch and the minister so they know this was shady at best. I have written and received 3 responses now and its just talking in circles, but it’s important to be a squeaky wheel in this world.

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

if i had known about them potentially culling deer because of CWD, I would have pulled my antlered tag on P8. Terrible decision by our bio's to last minute change the rules of the game. The last deer cull obviously didnt work.

[Chuck_Wagon]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I needed another year or two to draw my antlered mule tag, but had I heard about a cull, I would have applied to draw this year.

maybe its good you didn't apply, for all we know right now perhaps they will have numerous licences available through under subscribed?
Get your tag and still have your current Ant. MDeer priority points.