crossbow vs. conventional archery

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Huntwriter

I am old enough to remember the exact same arguments when the compound bows were invented. Back then bowhunting was a dying sport. The few bowhunters left got very upset when US state after US state and Canadian Province after Canadian Province legalized compound bows as a legitimate hunting weapon. Like the crossbow today, the compound was made out to be an "evil" contraption that would lead to "unethical" hunting, "unsportsmanlike", "to easy" to learn and on and on. The Pope & Young Club refused to accept compound bow kills. Then the bowhunting community realized that in order for the sport to survive they had to accept the compound bows.

Today we're faced with a similar situation. According to the latest news from the Archery Trade Association bowhunter numbers are stagnant. In the next five to ten years numbers will drop significantly due to babyboomers "retiring". You and some others may not like crossbows, just as our fathers hated the compound bows, but you better get used to it because in very near future the crossbow WILL become the accepted norm in bowhunting just like the compound bow did.

Just for information, the crossbow is NOT modeled after the gun. If anything firearms are modeled after the crossbow. Crossbows are in use for over 3,000 years, long before the first gun was invented. That makes crossbows more traditional then compound bows.

You said that Alberta is not Tennessee which of course is true, but bowhunting is bowhunting no matter where in the world. If other jurisdictions across North America made crossbows legal without experiencing any of the predicted negativity why would Alberta be different in that regard?

I am neutral to crossbows. What I can't understand for the life of me is what the big deal is with the opposition to crossbows. Going my what I hear from the opposition the main reasons seems to be that crossbows are to easy to become proficient with it. I ask myself since when has the degree of difficulty become the measure of what a true bowhunter is. I am a bowhunter and I take the same care and use the same skills when I hunt with a crossbow or the rifle.

Hunting to me is about providing opportunity and not about limiting others in favour of a few. This to me has never been more important then now. Right now hunting as a sport keeps loosing more people then we gain, in addition hunters face a myriad of problems thrown at us from a misguided society and political forces pushing an anti-hunting agenda. The ONLY way we can overcome these problems is with numbers and as a united front. As it is stands now hunters are on the loosing end because we're to busy trying to figure out what separates us rather than realizing what unties us all.

Care to show us the stats and evidence that hunting numbers are decreasing here in AB?? ( i don't care about anywhere else, especially the states)

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Huntwriter

I am not talking about game numbers. I am talking about the fears bowhunters voice of including crossbows. Fears like; more hunters during bowhunting season or in bow zones, degrading the bowhunting experience, limiting the quality of the hunt, crossbows lead to unethical behaviour and all the other myths. It is these things that have been found time and again untrue. But since you mentioned game kill numbers I can set your mind at ease. The numbers of game killed remain about the same where crossbows are included and contrary to popular crossbow myth not more game is wounded because of crossbows. These are the facts every US state and Canadian Province came up where crossbows are legal for all hunters.

Again show us this documentation as well...

And I was talking about game numbers and species !!

[Huntwriter]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Care to show us the stats and evidence that hunting numbers are decreasing here in AB?? ( i don't care about anywhere else, especially the states)

Contact your Alberta government branch and ask for the hunting license sale figure for the last five years and then compare it to the previous ten years. You will notice a steady decline in sales.

Here in BC the numbers look very good at first glance. Hunter recruitment is way up, over 6,000 new hunters last year alone. Hunting license sales are up for the last two years. Sounds very good, until you compare it to 10 or 15 years ago and realize that we still haven't even come close to the numbers form the past. Yet, the general population has almost doubled in numbers. This trend occurs throughout North America, I doubt Alberta differs much from the rest. If hunting as a sport is to survive into the future we need a lot more hunters then we have now.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Huntwriter

Contact your Alberta government branch and ask for the hunting license sale figure for the last five years and then compare it to the previous ten years. You will notice a steady decline in sales.
Here in BC the numbers look very good at first glance. Hunter recruitment is way up, over 6,000 new hunters last year alone. Hunting license sales are up for the last two years. Sounds very good, until you compare it to 10 or 15 years ago and realize that we still haven't even come close to the numbers form the past. Yet, the general population has almost doubled in numbers. This trend occurs throughout North America, I doubt Alberta differs much from the rest. If hunting as a sport is to survive into the future we need a lot more hunters then we have now.

So what your saying is you don't have the numbers, your just throwing out random statements, with out and proof !

Xbows, or xbows in the archery season, isn't gonna recruit any new hunters , becaus eof it!!! But you already know that !!!

[Huntwriter]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Again show us this documentation as well...

I am afraid I do not know how to scan documents and post them on the Internet. However, if you do as I do and contact various government agencies who keep detailed records of hunter activity you can find out the facts.

And I was talking about game numbers and species !!

I fail to see what the inclusion of crossbows or a separate season has to do with game numbers. Are you afraid that if crossbows are legal bowhunters would have to share with a few others? Because that is the reality. Only a few take advantage of the added crossbow opportunity, not the "hordes" the anti-crossbow lobby claims. Here in BC crossbows are legal for everyone to hunt with and we have not seen any negative impact or an "army" of crossbow hunters taking over bowhunting.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Huntwriter

I am afraid I do not know how to scan documents and post them on the Internet. However, if you do as I do and contact various government agencies who keep detailed records of hunter activity you can find out the facts.



I fail to see what the inclusion of crossbows or a separate season has to do with game numbers. Are you afraid that if crossbows are legal bowhunters would have to share with a few others? Because that is the reality. Only a few take advantage of the added crossbow opportunity, not the "hordes" the anti-crossbow lobby claims. Here in BC crossbows are legal for everyone to hunt with and we have not seen any negative impact or an "army" of crossbow hunters taking over bowhunting.

If you wanted to, i 'm sure you know how !! I just want to see, where you got your info from, but it's all hear say.

Not afraid to share at all. The more bowhunters the better. We have the model system here in Alberta, and bastardizing it, to help manufacturers is not an option.

Disabled hunters got a lax, in obtaining xbows, thats all that is needed.

I'm still waiting to hear how xbows will increase new recruitements of hunters !!

[Huntwriter]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

We have the model system here in Alberta,

That is an interesting view point. Every other jurisdiction makes the same claim.

...and bastardizing it, to help manufacturers is not an option.

If you're old enough perhaps you remember that when compound bows came out bowhunters used, among other expressions, the same phrase about "bastardizing" bowhunting. You may not like it but there is no doubt that hunting is regulated first and foremost to cater to hunters demand.

When compound bows became popular and hunters demanded to hunt with them it was made legal. The same will happen with crossbows.

Hunting is about money. Make no mistake about it, if the government can't make money of one form of hunting it will cease to exist. The only reason why bowhunting was transformed from a small segment of a special interest groups into one of the most popular hunting sports was because manufactures pushed for it and the government smelled a new revenue. The same will happen with crossbows, maybe not this year maybe not even in the next five years but it will happen.

Disabled hunters got a lax, in obtaining xbows, thats all that is needed.

That is your opinion and you're entitled to it.

I'm still waiting to hear how xbows will increase new recruitements of hunters !!

Crossbows, like any other hunting method create opportunity and opportunity creates interest. Crossbows are perfect for the rifle hunter looking for a special challenge or a new person wanting to take up bowhunting without committing, or hasn't, the time it takes to become proficient with a regular bow. BTW, that was why compound bows became so popular, it took a lot less time to get good with them then with a tradtional bow.

Of course, then as now some bowhunters think that others should not have the right to bowhunt if they are not prepared to spend many months of daily practice to become proficient with a regular bow. It's interesting how history seems to repeat itself and how we hear the exact same arguments against crossbows as we heard back then against compound bows.

I hope you shoot a traditional bow, if not you're, as I am, guilty of having "bastardized" bowhunting a long time.

[Huntwriter]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

If you wanted to, i 'm sure you know how !!

Sure I could if I know how and above all, if I would have a scanner.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Huntwriter

That is an interesting view point. Every other jurisdiction makes the same claim.



If you're old enough perhaps you remember that when compound bows came out bowhunters used, among other expressions, the same phrase about "bastardizing" bowhunting. You may not like it but there is no doubt that hunting is regulated first and foremost to cater to hunters demand.

When compound bows became popular and hunters demanded to hunt with them it was made legal. The same will happen with crossbows.

Hunting is about money. Make no mistake about it, if the government can't make money of one form of hunting it will cease to exist. The only reason why bowhunting was transformed from a small segment of a special interest groups into one of the most popular hunting sports was because manufactures pushed for it and the government smelled a new revenue. The same will happen with crossbows, maybe not this year maybe not even in the next five years but it will happen.


That is your opinion and you're entitled to it.


Crossbows, like any other hunting method create opportunity and opportunity creates interest. Crossbows are perfect for the rifle hunter looking for a special challenge or a new person wanting to take up bowhunting without committing, or hasn't, the time it takes to become proficient with a regular bow. BTW, that was why compound bows became so popular, it took a lot less time to get good with them then with a tradtional bow.

Of course, then as now some bowhunters think that others should not have the right to bowhunt if they are not prepared to spend many months of daily practice to become proficient with a regular bow. It's interesting how history seems to repeat itself and how we hear the exact same arguments against crossbows as we heard back then against compound bows.

I hope you shoot a traditional bow, if not you're, as I am, guilty of having "bastardized" bowhunting a long time.

sounds like recycling to me !

[bb356]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Pro xbow hunters all say the xbow is inferior to the bow, my question to you is why include a weapon that will probably do more harm to the animal populations than good???

Ironic, bowhunters all agree that if you want to hunt in the archery season pick up a bow and go hunt. The more the merrier, don't know a single bowhunter that says nope, no more bowhunters.

So admitting that bowhunters don't want more guys, is just an illusion of the truth.....Pick Up a Bow and GO!

We voted here in Alberta, and NO was the answer !

sounds like recycling to me !!!

[walking buffalo]

Huntwriter,

Do you have a camera? Take a pic of the documents on post the pic.


Surely a professional outdoors writer will have a digital camera and/or a scanner....

[Huntwriter]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Huntwriter,

Do you have a camera? Take a pic of the documents on post the pic.

Now there is an idea I haven't thought of. I may do that!

Surely a professional outdoors writer will have a digital camera and/or a scanner....

What on earth makes you think a person making a living as a writer needs a scanner?

[jungleboy]

Huntwriter; The antis are really not interested in facts. You told us where the information is but that isn't good enough , they insist you provide it yourself.
Difficult to discuss with someone , when they put their fingers in their ears and sing LALALALA everytime an opposing view is voiced.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

Huntwriter; The antis are really not interested in facts. You told us where the information is but that isn't good enough , they insist you provide it yourself.
Difficult to discuss with someone , when they put their fingers in their ears and sing LALALALA everytime an opposing view is voiced.

LOL, maybe you believe everything you hear, i don't (not on here, and not by people I don't trust).....opinions are just opinions and facts need to proven......Perhaps its the business man in me !

I got a fax machine to if you need!

[Loper]

Abraham Licoln said 90% of all facts on the internet can not be substantiated.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Huntwriter

Contact your Alberta government branch and ask for the hunting license sale figure for the last five years and then compare it to the previous ten years. You will notice a steady decline in sales.

Originally Posted by Loper

Abraham Licoln said 90% of all facts on the internet can not be substantiated.

So true....

Since Huntwriter won't share his facts, here are some from the Ab Government. There seems to be some discrepancy between Huntwriter's Facts and the Government's.

There were 98,000 licenced hunters in Alberta in 2001
http://www.huntingfortomorrow.com/HF...0Sheet%205.pdf

There were 115,000 licencd hunters in Alberta in 2011. An increase of 17%. Each year from 2001-2011 had a slow but steady increase in the number of licenced hunters.

https://osi.alberta.ca/osi-content/P...inAlberta.aspx

[braggadoe]

that's great work posting the stats, anyone who acutally gets out and hunts/fish knows the numbers are up, big stores selling all the stuff we need are everywhere more now than ever before.

huntwriter seems to "remember the days" but if you read his bio on the bc forum he moved to north america in 90's from accross the pond. sad.

[Mistagin]

Interesting to see those stats. Makes me wonder how much of the increase is due to hunters moving to Alberta in the last decade, I know I'm one of them , and I've met several others like me. It's be interesting to see a comparison from all provinces on the same time frame.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

So true....

Since Huntwriter won't share his facts, here are some from the Ab Government. There seems to be some discrepancy between Huntwriter's Facts and the Government's.

There were 98,000 licenced hunters in Alberta in 2001
http://www.huntingfortomorrow.com/HF...0Sheet%205.pdf

There were 115,000 licencd hunters in Alberta in 2011. An increase of 17%. Each year from 2001-2011 had a slow but steady increase in the number of licenced hunters.
https://osi.alberta.ca/osi-content/P...inAlberta.aspx

AAAhhhhh , WB, I was holding that under my hat until he posted something. Which I knew he wouldn't !

[wanabehunter]

you cannot say a crossbow is in the same hunting catagory as a compound or a recurve bow because
(1)you can walk all day with a bolt in the crossbow ready to fire just by the pull of the trigger
(2) compounds have an easier draw because of cranks and air cocking devices giving unheard of draw weights that an ordinary bow cannot atain
(3)lazer sights on compounds,give me a break!!!!
(4)crossbow drawn in the morning before leaving moms kitchen transported to the feild bolt laid in carried until game spotted rest bow on bipod sight in lazer dot pull trigger(hope you at least had enough brains to do this prior to hunting season) as i havent seen too many do.
lastley if your bound to us a crossbow do it during rifle season li ke the rifle sportsman do as the crossbow is more akin to rifles than regular recurve,straight,or compound bows that require muscle,skill and a steady hand to fire at the moment of game sighting in your comfort range of a sure kill not at some unatianable distance most crossbow users think they are capable of
before refutting try to come up with something at least a litle sensible
and don.t go into BC or tennesee because were not there so that argument means diddly squat in this forum ::ALBERTA OUTDOORSdoes that ring a bell. HELLO!!!!!!!
thank you

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

AAAhhhhh , WB, I was holding that under my hat until he posted something. Which I knew he wouldn't !

There was no point in waiting, Huntwriter like to use the "I don't have a scanner" line.

Same thing happened at HBC regarding BC Grizzly bear populations. Claimed the gov's number was 90,000 when the gov's number was 10-13000.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showth...ion+huntwriter

The link won't work unless you sign in to the HBC Forum. Quote from the thread....

I have the survey in printed form. if I would have a scanner I could post here.

Huntwriter, I have no ill will towards you, but please don't make up numbers on important issues, even if the facts will hinder potential sponsorship or business.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by wanabehunter

.....not at some unatianable distance most crossbow users think they are capable of
before refutting try to come up with something at least a litle sensible

Maybe you should follow your own advice.

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by wanabehunter

you cannot say a crossbow is in the same hunting catagory as a compound or a recurve bow because
(1)you can walk all day with a bolt in the crossbow ready to fire just by the pull of the trigger
(2) compounds have an easier draw because of cranks and air cocking devices giving unheard of draw weights that an ordinary bow cannot atain
(3)lazer sights on compounds,give me a break!!!!
(4)crossbow drawn in the morning before leaving moms kitchen transported to the feild bolt laid in carried until game spotted rest bow on bipod sight in lazer dot pull trigger(hope you at least had enough brains to do this prior to hunting season) as i havent seen too many do.
lastley if your bound to us a crossbow do it during rifle season li ke the rifle sportsman do as the crossbow is more akin to rifles than regular recurve,straight,or compound bows that require muscle,skill and a steady hand to fire at the moment of game sighting in your comfort range of a sure kill not at some unatianable distance most crossbow users think they are capable of
before refutting try to come up with something at least a litle sensible
and don.t go into BC or tennesee because were not there so that argument means diddly squat in this forum ::ALBERTA OUTDOORSdoes that ring a bell. HELLO!!!!!!!
thank you

I would love to be able to agree with you but , then we would both be wrong

I'll just walk away now and leave you alone in your fantasy world. Turn out the lights when your done.

[heretohunt]

Any time you want to go hunting in the archery season pay your bowhunting permit and go,..That goes for anyone. If you can't use a regular bow due to some physical limitation you can easily get a permit to use a cross bow. If you want to use a crossbow there is a season for it in the regulations, join your rifle hunters, bow hunters and muzzle loading brothers. Don't you want to share with them? If you want to use archery tackle in the general season, you are welcome to it! I love those rules and have followed them happily for 35 years.
Did I exclude any one? People under twelve I guess but that is a discussion for another day?
I am just heretohunt.

[HunterDave]

I bought a brand new Excalibur Exomax crossbow this year and the darned thing must be defective. I took it out of the box and practiced with it for 20 minutes like people have been sayin' and I headed out hunting with it. So far......NOTHING!!!!

Anyway, for the OP, if hunting with a crossbow ends up being the only way that you can get out for bow season then I think that you should do it. Just don't believe all of the hype about them like I did or you'll be disappointed.

[Huntwriter]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

So true....

Since Huntwriter won't share his facts, here are some from the Ab Government. There seems to be some discrepancy between Huntwriter's Facts and the Government's.

There were 98,000 licenced hunters in Alberta in 2001
http://www.huntingfortomorrow.com/HF...0Sheet%205.pdf

There were 115,000 licencd hunters in Alberta in 2011. An increase of 17%. Each year from 2001-2011 had a slow but steady increase in the number of licenced hunters.

https://osi.alberta.ca/osi-content/P...inAlberta.aspx

Nice chart. If you go back and reread my posts you will see that I stated that we in BC too recruited over 6,000 new hunters last year, breaking the previous record year. Hunter numbers do climb over the past five to six years but, and I stated that in a previous post, compared to the growth rate of the general population hunter numbers are still in decline. That trend occurs all across North America. If you want to see trends you have to look at the big picture not just at the growth rate of one particular segment within the overall population.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Huntwriter

Nice chart. If you go back and reread my posts you will see that I stated that we in BC too recruited over 6,000 new hunters last year, breaking the previous record year. Hunter numbers do climb over the past five to six years but, and I stated that in a previous post, compared to the growth rate of the general population hunter numbers are still in decline. That trend occurs all across North America. If you want to see trends you have to look at the big picture not just at the growth rate of one particular segment within the overall population.

Then just show us where your got your info from !! So you can bring more creditability to your " fact " or is it really just an opinion? An opinion attempting to be passed as a fact???

[Huntwriter]

Originally Posted by braggadoe

huntwriter seems to "remember the days" but if you read his bio on the bc forum he moved to north america in 90's from accross the pond. sad.

...But before that permanent relocation he worked, lived and hunted in America and Canada on and off for months and years since the early 80's.

[hillbillyreefer]

Originally Posted by Huntwriter

Nice chart. If you go back and reread my posts you will see that I stated that we in BC too recruited over 6,000 new hunters last year, breaking the previous record year. Hunter numbers do climb over the past five to six years but, and I stated that in a previous post, compared to the growth rate of the general population hunter numbers are still in decline. That trend occurs all across North America. If you want to see trends you have to look at the big picture not just at the growth rate of one particular segment within the overall population.

Dude, I'm all for crossbow hunting during any open season, the same as I'm all for bow hunting during any open season, but come on. That has got to be the weakest pile of steaming coyote crap ever presented on this site. Sorry.

[jungleboy]

If they ever do allow crossbows into the sacred archery world in Alberta like they have in so many other places ( all distinct societies I am sure) I hope we don't get into a shootin war over it. Too bad really ,all this fuss based on whether your bow is verticle with fiber optic sights and a hand held trigger ,or horizontal with a scope and a fixed trigger

(Hey I wonder if it would be okay to hunt with a crossbow if they banned them from having a scope? )

Whichever way you decide is best for you I hope you all have much success in the field. Myself I will be pokin around with the 45 70 again this year . I can't draw my bow and when I tried for a cbow permit about 8 yrs ago or so I couldn't qualify because my arm unfortunately, is still attached.

Would I hunt with a cbow if I could ? probably not now , I get enough time in the field during rifle season to keep me happy for the most part . The older I get the less it takes to make me happy lol , but I do enjoy a good argument on occasion

No hard feelings I hope , but if there are, well .... you'll get over it I'm sure

Cheers Peet.