438 or 437 novemeber sheep

[cody j]

I think some people would prefer it if all the draws were free to enter, every year there is people complaining that the current prices are too high.

[fishnguy]

^ I have been here a few years and I don’t think I have ever seen anyone saying draws are currently too expensive. Not that I can remember.

I agree with CBintheNorth. In fact, I wrote essentially the same thing but it didn’t want to post and I didn’t bother trying again. Except I said “let’s make it $20K per draw and a few guys who really-really want to hunt and are really-really serious about it will hunt every other or every few years”.

[7magtime]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

Not an exaggeration at all, I'm serious.
If we can get those draws up to $5k, and the tag cost up to the $250k mark, then guys could pretty well get drawn every few years.

Or are you and some other posters suggesting that we only increase the cost to where YOU GUYS can still afford to apply, but others get eliminated due to their annual income?

And I do know someone who would gladly pay $250k to hunt sheep every few years.

If you guys want to treat wildlife as a commodity, something to be sold to the highest bidder, why are you bothering with public draws?
I'm sure for 10-15k Dunham's will gladly put you onto an awesome sheep of some sort.
And it's guaranteed!
Why waste your time and money amongst the commoners?

The funny thing is that some of the usual posters that advocate higher pricing be used to eliminate tags for other people, can't stand the fact that leaseholders treat leased land like their own.

Agreed. I'm not happy with some of the current wait times for draws but I sure don't want to see some draws/tags get priced out so only a select few residents with large bank accounts/disposable income get the tags regularly.
That's why they have "pay to hunt" farms in other countries, fill your boots and book a hunt with one of them if that's your thing IMO.....

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

Not an exaggeration at all, I'm serious.
If we can get those draws up to $5k, and the tag cost up to the $250k mark, then guys could pretty well get drawn every few years.

Or are you and some other posters suggesting that we only increase the cost to where YOU GUYS can still afford to apply, but others get eliminated due to their annual income?

And I do know someone who would gladly pay $250k to hunt sheep every few years.

If you guys want to treat wildlife as a commodity, something to be sold to the highest bidder, why are you bothering with public draws?
I'm sure for 10-15k Dunham's will gladly put you onto an awesome sheep of some sort.
And it's guaranteed!
Why waste your time and money amongst the commoners?

The funny thing is that some of the usual posters that advocate higher pricing be used to eliminate tags for other people, can't stand the fact that leaseholders treat leased land like their own.

Who do you know that would pay 250k to hunt sheep in alberta?
I call bs
Because if they did, they would just buy the ministers tag

You know the tags where one goes to the highest bidder and one gets raffled off

Draws like 438 sheep should be $50
If you can’t afford the $50 to enter, you won’t even be able to afford a new pair of mitts to wear. Never mind being able to afford to drive to the mine for 10 days even if you lived in Hinton.

Draws are too cheap
Up to 4 people can split the massive $4 fee
If you think the opportunity to hunt animals as a resident is only worth $1 to you
We are on totally different pages

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Who do you know that would pay 250k to hunt sheep in alberta?
I call bs
Because if they did, they would just buy the ministers tag

You know the tags where one goes to the highest bidder and one gets raffled off

Draws like 438 sheep should be $50
If you can’t afford the $50 to enter, you won’t even be able to afford a new pair of mitts to wear. Never mind being able to afford to drive to the mine for 10 days even if you lived in Hinton.

Draws are too cheap
Up to 4 people can split the massive $4 fee
If you think the opportunity to hunt animals as a resident is only worth $1 to you
We are on totally different pages

He's not a resident here. And no, he wouldn't pay it now. I should have clarified. The days of there being a huntable sheep worth over 15k, let alone 600k in this province are over for many years to come. My point was, there's always someone who will spend more than the last guy.

But back to the pricing topic...
Are you seriously trying to deter people from applying with a $50 draw fee?
All that's going to do is increase provincial coffers and give some people here one more thing to complain about. You will not see a change in wait times because I think you are seriously underestimating how much people are willing to spend on recreation nowadays.

I was being half serious earlier. If all that you're after is reducing draw wait times for a few of the really, really serious hunters, you should suggest they make all draws open on a live auction. That way, the really, really serious guys could be drawn whenever they choose to cough up the most bucks.


In all seriousness, the cost of draws should cover the cost of running the draw system. It's a public service.
The cost of a tag should cover the office, enforcement, and residual fees associated with that tag. It's a public service.

This is still Alberta. Thankfully the government here still only sells the authorization to harvest wildlife.

There are places that actually sell their animals to the highest bidder. Some guys should honestly check them out. No waiting required.
Or, enjoy one of the many outfitted hunts available around the world.

But using higher prices to try and deter residents from coveting a public resource is a horrible idea.

Imagine if we did this with lakes?
Cold Lake Annual Licence= $1,000
That should ensure that I don't have to wait in line to launch my boat.

[pikeslayer22]

I had the draw in 2012 ont the first week had the whole place to myself other than the odd hiker passing through. Pathetic that people would waste such a tag. Should be a huge surcharge if a person is drawn and doesn’t show up for the hunt.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

He's not a resident here. And no, he wouldn't pay it now. I should have clarified. The days of there being a huntable sheep worth over 15k, let alone 600k in this province are over for many years to come. My point was, there's always someone who will spend more than the last guy.

But back to the pricing topic...
Are you seriously trying to deter people from applying with a $50 draw fee?
All that's going to do is increase provincial coffers and give some people here one more thing to complain about. You will not see a change in wait times because I think you are seriously underestimating how much people are willing to spend on recreation nowadays.

I was being half serious earlier. If all that you're after is reducing draw wait times for a few of the really, really serious hunters, you should suggest they make all draws open on a live auction. That way, the really, really serious guys could be drawn whenever they choose to cough up the most bucks.


In all seriousness, the cost of draws should cover the cost of running the draw system. It's a public service.
The cost of a tag should cover the office, enforcement, and residual fees associated with that tag. It's a public service.

This is still Alberta. Thankfully the government here still only sells the authorization to harvest wildlife.

There are places that actually sell their animals to the highest bidder. Some guys should honestly check them out. No waiting required.
Or, enjoy one of the many outfitted hunts available around the world.

But using higher prices to try and deter residents from coveting a public resource is a horrible idea.

Imagine if we did this with lakes?
Cold Lake Annual Licence= $1,000
That should ensure that I don't have to wait in line to launch my boat.

I’m not underestimating what some people are willing to spend
That’s why it should be more money
438 sheep is 100% a trophy hunt. Its not a freezer filler so the bs excuse that $50 for a application is irrelevant. You know exactly what your applying for

This isn’t a highest bidder conversation
This is about putting a decent value on the opportunity to enter a draw

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

I’m not underestimating what some people are willing to spend
That’s why it should be more money
438 sheep is 100% a trophy hunt. Its not a freezer filler so the bs excuse that $50 for a application is irrelevant. You know exactly what your applying for

This isn’t a highest bidder conversation
This is about putting a decent value on the opportunity to enter a draw

Will people get more value out of the hunt because it costs more for the tag? I don't think so.
I said in my post above how much I believe draws and tags should cost for residents. Not a penny more, not a penny less.
I believe you're advocating that less people will apply if it costs more because they won't spend the money. That's management by implementing prohibitive costs, and wrong in my opinion.

If somehow higher fees were going to put more sheep on the mountain I would fully support it. But we already know how much our provincial leaders value our fish and wildlife.
The money would go elsewhere and our sheep herds would still be declining.
That's my $.02

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

Will people get more value out of the hunt because it costs more for the tag? I don't think so.
I said in my post above how much I believe draws and tags should cost for residents. Not a penny more, not a penny less.
I believe you're advocating that less people will apply if it costs more because they won't spend the money. That's management by implementing prohibitive costs, and wrong in my opinion.

If somehow higher fees were going to put more sheep on the mountain I would fully support it. But we already know how much our provincial leaders value our fish and wildlife.
The money would go elsewhere and our sheep herds would still be declining.
That's my $.02

What I’m saying is that people aren’t going to just apply, because it cost them less than a cup of coffee

I believe our wildlife is worth more than just the administrative costs of the government

I believe that if the value of our wildlife is kept low
It is easier for the government to take it away

[SouthWestRanger]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

What I’m saying is that people aren’t going to just apply, because it cost them less than a cup of coffee

I believe our wildlife is worth more than just the administrative costs of the government

I believe that if the value of our wildlife is kept low
It is easier for the government to take it away

Well said, I still don’t see how 50$ is prohibitive given the cost of everything now… I know of plenty of guys who just apply for stuff because it’s cheap, have no interest in putting any effort in and when they do draw 90% of the time they don’t hunt for it at all. 4$ allows this behaviour, 50$ reduces it and could put more money towards where it counts if we are willing to press out gov hard enough to ensure all the extra draw price goes to conservation, predator management, habitat projects, access projects etc

[katts69]

Everyone who applies should have to pay for the certificate which is finally a thing, pay the entire cost of the tag up front as well and refunded when not drawn. they should also up the fee toll for applying. And use the money to get more fish cops out there catching all the poachers.