Poacher on Crowsnest River at Lundbreck Falls BUSTED

[bmbilon]

Originally Posted by Weedy1

Go out to any pond or lake, any day of the week, and have a good look around. You'll find poachers, which are simply defined as someone who kills or takes wild animals (such as game or fish) illegally.

The incident took place at around 6am, on a Sunday, of a long weekend, so I would suggest that this particular poacher may have thought he’d be there early enough that no one else would see him. And until he hooked into the big bull I was the only other person in sight. A few other guys were just starting to gear up by the time I made it back up to canyon rim but it was not definitely not middle-of-the-day type level of activity yet.

[dxh]

Originally Posted by parfleche

bmbilon , hey I was just expressing my opinion on this , could not see the vid so had to visualize , regardless I still think the person was not a murdering scumbag , he was an ignorant idiot who likely didn't care how he did stuff, So IMO a poacher is a person who has no concerns for rules concerning the taking of wildlife in an ethical manner , a person who skulks about in the dark or unseen corners stealing wildlife , THAT is a poacher , a poacher would never do this in broad daylight , THAT is my criticism of this post , so at any rate thank you BMBILON appreciate , NOW for 338 and kevin , you assume a lot about someone who you have no knowledge of , INSANE ??
Both of you should look in the mirror and ask yourselves why you feel good berating and bullying people knowing there are no consequences ? Is that the picture of a brave man ?

You should have been left on a flat rock in the sun when you were born.

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by dxh

You should have been left on a flat rock in the sun when you were born.

Such a "nice" post.... Some people

[ghostguy6]

Originally Posted by bmbilon

And without the videos it would have been purely hearsay evidence. What's your point?

Like I mentioned in my post, 'beyond a reasonable doubt' is a very high standard of proof. Seems like you understand that, but you either didn't read the post carefully or are failing to understand the nature of the scenario that took place and the rationale for why I did what I did.

Even after I confronted the poacher he kept right on rigging a fresh hook, and it wasn't until I had already walked away and he saw me talking on my phone (and probably figured out pretty quickly who I was talking to) that he actually started walking, casually, away. Again, this guy didn't "take off", he was even asking me if I got any pictures of the fish he could have after the whole exchange! Does that sound like someone who was scared off by my raised voice? This was as non-violent a confrontation one could ever imagine.

The F&W officer was very happy with what I did during the incident. So are most of the people on this thread. So if you're not, I honestly could care less, but its important that other people reading this thread understand the need for these actions in certain scenarios. Don't just call in it in and wait and hope the poacher is still in the act possibly hours later when the officer actually arrives on scene. Chances are likely they won't be. Try to get any evidence you can, and yes if you can avoid confrontation with the poacher while doing so, then even better.

But if you're at the bottom of a canyon and the only way you can get a view of the poacher's face is to run up, walk out onto the viewing deck he's casting from, where you literally need to getting within several feet of him (literally into his personal space), then make the call if you're comfortable with the potential risk involved in doing so and act. And yes ghostguy6, you're absolutely right that this kind of confrontation can turn violent. I've been in (fortunately very few) situations where I was trying to help/stop something bad from happening that turned highly violent. Each of those were ended with reasonable force in self defense, and I was fully prepared to fight that day too if I had to. There were other bystanders by this point as well who were aware of what was underway which contributed to my overall safety. I am not promoting confrontation or violence, I'm simply making it known that not every scenario involving a poacher can be adequately addressed with a simple call-and-wait approach. Nor can it always be addressed by doing what I did. Use your judgement based on the particular factors you're facing and do as much as you can as safely as you can. But don't assume that there is a "catch-all" approach you can take that applies to all cases.

I'm just saying there could have been a better way to approach the situation. You are correct in saying I can not see all the facts because I simply was not there. I can only go by what the videos show and what statements you are making. Perhaps its my 14 or so years working along side with law enforcement and 200+ plus arrests I have made in my life speaking here but, the fact is there are many different ways the situation could have played out.

Dont get me wrong here, I'm glad this guy got caught but looking at it from the courts point of view there is a good chance this will get dropped by a good lawyer. For example there are 2 videos, one shows the fish, the other shows the poacher. The courts want continuity. A lawyer could easily say someone else caught the fish because the first video does not show who's actually fishing. Of course we all know who it was but proving it to the judge without a single doubt could be difficult. Without another witness or confession, its basically your word against his. Even though he basically admitted it in the second video a good lawyer could add some doubt to the situation. I get that situation made it impossible to record the poacher on the first video due to the height from which he was fishing which then required you to ascend the slope before confronting the man. It sucks but without absolute continuity there is room for doubt. Im only adding this bit serve as an example of how little it takes to get charges dropped. I've witnessed 100's of shoplifters but cant make the arrest because I lost sight of them for a second when they go into a different isle. The first thing the police will ask when arriving on scene will be if I can prove the first 4 required steps, if I cant they will let the suspect go. The sad part I could then end up in more trouble than the shoplifter then.

While you did handle yourself well I think there were things that you could have done differently as the potential for that situation to go badly was there. Once again this may be the experience talking but when approaching the guy the way you did, you alerted him to your "negative presence". If you had simply approached him and said something like "too bad your line broke, that was a nice fish" then walked away you could still get your video but he may have not immediately been alerted to you calling RAP, left making it easier for the CO. Possibly even more charge could have been laid if he was caught while directly fishing.

Please understand I am not trying to start an argument or poke holes in your story. Im just simply trying to convey my experiences to make it easier for law enforcement the next time something like this happens. Lets face it, we will all run into another poacher at some point.

[Jigger]

Not sure i understand all the apparent poacher/criminal apologists around here, completely unreal.

[geocacher]

Originally Posted by Jigger

Not sure i understand all the apparent poacher/criminal apologists around here, completely unreal.

Maybe some of them got fined for not having their barbs crimped recently?

[Sooner]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

Such a "nice" post.... Some people

Nice "first" post

[bmbilon]

Originally Posted by ghostguy6

I'm just saying there could have been a better way to approach the situation. You are correct in saying I can not see all the facts because I simply was not there. I can only go by what the videos show and what statements you are making. Perhaps its my 14 or so years working along side with law enforcement and 200+ plus arrests I have made in my life speaking here but, the fact is there are many different ways the situation could have played out.

Dont get me wrong here, I'm glad this guy got caught but looking at it from the courts point of view there is a good chance this will get dropped by a good lawyer. For example there are 2 videos, one shows the fish, the other shows the poacher. The courts want continuity. A lawyer could easily say someone else caught the fish because the first video does not show who's actually fishing. Of course we all know who it was but proving it to the judge without a single doubt could be difficult. Without another witness or confession, its basically your word against his. Even though he basically admitted it in the second video a good lawyer could add some doubt to the situation. I get that situation made it impossible to record the poacher on the first video due to the height from which he was fishing which then required you to ascend the slope before confronting the man. It sucks but without absolute continuity there is room for doubt. Im only adding this bit serve as an example of how little it takes to get charges dropped. I've witnessed 100's of shoplifters but cant make the arrest because I lost sight of them for a second when they go into a different isle. The first thing the police will ask when arriving on scene will be if I can prove the first 4 required steps, if I cant they will let the suspect go. The sad part I could then end up in more trouble than the shoplifter then.

While you did handle yourself well I think there were things that you could have done differently as the potential for that situation to go badly was there. Once again this may be the experience talking but when approaching the guy the way you did, you alerted him to your "negative presence". If you had simply approached him and said something like "too bad your line broke, that was a nice fish" then walked away you could still get your video but he may have not immediately been alerted to you calling RAP, left making it easier for the CO. Possibly even more charge could have been laid if he was caught while directly fishing.

Please understand I am not trying to start an argument or poke holes in your story. Im just simply trying to convey my experiences to make it easier for law enforcement the next time something like this happens. Lets face it, we will all run into another poacher at some point.

Thanks ghostguy6, in short, you're absolutely right.


Appreciate your thoughtful, and very valid, points. I completely agree that the tactic of approaching as though you're admiring what the guy is doing/the fish he hooked, while capturing evidence covertly, is a far better and more strategic play (vs walking up scolding the person like I did(!)



I think its worth everyone taking good note of this; If you can calmly and convincingly capture good evidence of a poacher, without alerting that poacher that that's what you're actually doing, then you will have done a better job of busting them that I was able to in pretty much every instance. Don't just stay calm, go in under the radar and make the poacher think you're friendly or at a minimum, neutral. If they get aggravated just capture what you can and leave, keeping a watch on them from a distance until the officer arrives on scene.



And as ghostguy6 accurately explains, its extremely difficult to get charges to stick without continuity across the evidence, so keep the camera rolling! Fortunately when the reporting officer took a cautioned statement from the poacher there was no denial on his part that is was him who was trying to pull the fish up the guard rail, just the denial that he knew was breaking any rules (no surprise there). But if he didn't admit that then my evidence would have been even less useful.


And in ALL situations its always best to leave emotion completely out of the equation, which I struggled to, and inevitably failed to do here.



Another item I failed on was to capture footage of the actual bait. The bare hook, obvious bait fishing rig with bobber etc aren't enough to stick him with unlawful use of bait charge unless the judge is really swayed by the other evidence (which is unlikely). So for anyone who comes across bait use in bait-ban waters, consider it like the murder weapon! No weapon-no crime!



Thanks again for the great addition to this dialog!

[Soab]

There are also signs telling you about bait ban and zero harvest for bullies in the parking lot. Great job

[FlyTheory]

That video made me feel sick.

[Weedy1]

Originally Posted by Soab

There are also signs telling you about bait ban and zero harvest for bullies in the parking lot. Great job

You mean this one?

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.58334...7i13312!8i6656

Didn't know Google had mapped out the pathways at Lundbreck, kinda cool.
You can even stand on the walkouts and pretend to poach a Bully!!

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by Sooner

Nice "first" post

What ha men first post? Got trouble looking and understanding post counts?

[FQ2]

Well done. Hope that fellow gets his just deserts.

[Moosetalker]

Good Job OP.

Too many turn a blind eye towards this Chit going on Be it hunting fishing leaving junk and garbage when free camping.

The fix has to start somewhere! Mostly with the person looking back at you in the mirror.

[SNAPFisher]

Originally Posted by bmbilon

Thanks ghostguy6, in short, you're absolutely right.

And not right as well.

Well Ghost surely has some extra experience that we can all benefit from, at the end of the day, it is better that you did something than not. I'm not going to sit here and pull it apart and tell you what you could to differently or better or blah blah blah, whatever. It is this unnecessary commentary that is ruffling some feathers on this post.

At the end of day we need to do more to stem poaching and is that what you did. Good job again!

Even if the accused gets off, I'll bet the confrontation alone from this incident will make this poacher think twice. That is win regardless, and, a win for stopping it from occurring in the first place.

[Sooner]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

What ha men first post? Got trouble looking and understanding post counts?

Hey Chef, no harm meant, the guy you quoted, it was his first post on the forum and not a very nice one. I was adding to yours. Were both on the same page

[bmbilon]

Originally Posted by SNAPFisher

And not right as well.

Well Ghost surely has some extra experience that we can all benefit from, at the end of the day, it is better that you did something than not. I'm not going to sit here and pull it apart and tell you what you could to differently or better or blah blah blah, whatever. It is this unnecessary commentary that is ruffling some feathers on this post.

At the end of day we need to do more to stem poaching and is that what you did. Good job again!

Even if the accused gets off, I'll bet the confrontation alone from this incident will make this poacher think twice. That is win regardless, and, a win for stopping it from occurring in the first place.

Thanks for the comment, much appreciated

[ram crazy]

Last summer I watched two kids from BC formerly from the Pass doing this at Lundbreck falls as well, they jumped the fence on the northwest corner of the falls. They were pulling some huge fish out (they looked like cutthroat). They were using corn as bait.

[rpcw]

Good on you for confronting the guy and making sure the CO got what he needed.

Videos are real helpful for that sort of thing. Had he got it over the rail I doubt it would have gone back.

[bessiedog]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Last summer I watched two kids from BC formerly from the Pass doing this at Lundbreck falls as well, they jumped the fence on the northwest corner of the falls. They were pulling some huge fish out (they looked like cutthroat). They were using corn as bait.

You knew them then...?

Did you do anything bout it?


I don’t fish the rat hole just down from the falls very much... but I find bait jars there more often than not...

[bmbilon]

Just got a cheque in the mail from RAP today, was blown away that it was for $600. When they mentioned that they'd be sending me a reward I wasn't expecting it to be more than $50-100 tops. I was more than happy to do my part for zero reward, and I really wanted to share this with the forum in the hope of encouraging others to report poachers any time they can.



Huge thank you to the Province of Alberta and the outstanding officers and wardens working to protect it, and to everyone who helps them in their efforts!!

[SNAPFisher]

Originally Posted by bmbilon

Just got a cheque in the mail from RAP today, was blown away that it was for $600. When they mentioned that they'd be sending me a reward I wasn't expecting it to be more than $50-100 tops. I was more than happy to do my part for zero reward, and I really wanted to share this with the forum in the hope of encouraging others to report poachers any time they can.



Huge thank you to the Province of Alberta and the outstanding officers and wardens working to protect it, and to everyone who helps them in their efforts!!

Nice! And well deserved in my humble opinion.

[Fishfinder]

Originally Posted by SNAPFisher

Nice! And well deserved in my humble opinion.

X2. Awesome!