for the first time ever I'm having foot holds dug up.. Whats wrong?

[Bushmonkey]

First time ever I'm having foot holds dug up. In the last week, probably 5 have been dug up by coyotes.

And for the first time ever, I have wolves walking my snowmobile trial, but turning around right before a burried trap.

I'm doing nothing different this year except I used FMJ trap dip. Previous years, I'd boil and wax, no dye or dip and I never had one dug up or a refusal.


Is it the FMJ?

Does anyone else use this stuff? It's frustrating because I can't pull all the traps and boil, wax and reset. It's just too much work right now.

I am setting from a new sled this year, but its clean.

[backwoods]

Hey Bushmonkey, I'm by no means an expert on Wolves but if your traps are bedded solid they are smelling them. I have no experience with FMJ but if they are bedded proper it is definitely a scent issue.

[Bushmonkey]

Originally Posted by backwoods

Hey Bushmonkey, I'm by no means an expert on Wolves but if your traps are bedded solid they are smelling them. I have no experience with FMJ but if they are bedded proper it is definitely a scent issue.

Ya I know they are smelling them lol..

I'd like to find someone else whose tried FMJ on foot holds and know what they experienced.

I am pretty sure I used it right?

[Bushmonkey]

I'll note too that the traps have been out for over 2 weeks, so even if it was scent from my hand it should have dissipated by now.

[nube]

where and how do you store your traps. I have been leaving mine in the bush all summer. I hang them in the areas I use them under a big spruce and tie a bag around them to keep off most moisture. I don't do anything special when I set them. I do make sure I use a fresh roll of wax paper instead of just grabbing it from the kitchen the day I leave to use it....
I usually put 5 or 6 coats of speed dye on them before I hang them for the year. Before I dip I spray them a few times with vinegar to rust them lightly.
Seems to work well and hold up in the weather all year
My 2 cents

[Bushmonkey]

Originally Posted by nube

where and how do you store your traps. I have been leaving mine in the bush all summer. I hang them in the areas I use them under a big spruce and tie a bag around them to keep off most moisture. I don't do anything special when I set them. I do make sure I use a fresh roll of wax paper instead of just grabbing it from the kitchen the day I leave to use it....
I usually put 5 or 6 coats of speed dye on them before I hang them for the year. Before I dip I spray them a few times with vinegar to rust them lightly.
Seems to work well and hold up in the weather all year
My 2 cents

I keep them in a rubbermaid in my garage. When its time to set them, I pulled them out and boil the traps and chains. Then I wax them. Put them back in the bin and put the bin outside. With in a couple days I set them.

Never had a problem doing it this way. Same with my snares. I rarely get a snare refusal as long as I boil.

[nube]

weird then!!

[KegRiver]

You say this is the first time you have used this FMJ trap dip.

That is most likely your answer, assuming you haven't missed something.

An internet search turned up these comments;

My experience with the stuff was not good at all. I would wait a week and get more people response. I believe several other people had problems with full metal jacket as well.

I'd consider dips on my water traps, but not my land traps. I think Wolverine had a bad experience with a dip; lots of digouts.

K9trapper said: ↑

I've never used it but I've heard that response enough to make me shy away from it.


Just Waitin

Don't do it is junk I will never use that stuff again. Our trap line died after using it. It was looked they could smell the trap a mile away

I had some traps that I had dipped in Formula 1 and was catching canines pretty regularly in them. I decided to dip those in FMJ and after that I had BIG issues with dig outs. I've since stopped the dip and the FMJ and am back to waxing my canine traps. Having said that, my buddy Matt from Alabama spray paints his canine traps, then dips them in FMJ, he wears the coyotes out!!!!!

I also found plenty of people who said they used it and had no issues.

FMJ is a Acrylic Polymer, in other words it is a liquid plastic that must cure.

Typical solvents include aromatics such as toluene and xylene, as well as ketones and esters.
Most of us know that these are very strong smelling solvents. What many may not know is that they emit odor long after we can no longer smell them.

And, they have a very low freezing point. In other words they would still be emitting odors at extremely low temperatures.

It may be that this odor dissipates better in warmer climates then ours and thus are not as noticeable further South.

FMJ is made in Dunlap Tennessee by a company calling themselves Predator Control Group. I doubt very much that they tested their product at the temperatures we encounter here. That could be the key to your problems.
It could be that you will have to let the dip cure a lot longer then the manufacturers recommended time.

[Bushmonkey]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

You say this is the first time you have used this FMJ trap dip.

That is most likely your answer, assuming you haven't missed something.

An internet search turned up these comments;



I also found plenty of people who said they used it and had no issues.

FMJ is a Acrylic Polymer, in other words it is a liquid plastic that must cure.

Typical solvents include aromatics such as toluene and xylene, as well as ketones and esters.
Most of us know that these are very strong smelling solvents. What many may not know is that they emit odor long after we can no longer smell them.

And, they have a very low freezing point. In other words they would still be emitting odors at extremely low temperatures.

It may be that this odor dissipates better in warmer climates then ours and thus are not as noticeable further South.

FMJ is made in Dunlap Tennessee by a company calling themselves Predator Control Group. I doubt very much that they tested their product at the temperatures we encounter here. That could be the key to your problems.
It could be that you will have to let the dip cure a lot longer then the manufacturers recommended time.

Even though I'm pretty ticked off with the info in your post, thanks.

I did read a lot of reviews about it before using it and I never came across anything about scent issues.

I do find it odd though because I also tried dipping my snares in it. And I haven't had a refusal yet. But When I'm looking to see if I have a refusal I look to see if tracks came up to the snare from where I can see. I'm guessing the refusals are happening well before where I look for the tracks to show it.

I have caught a few coyotes on FMJ dipping snares though, but most have been mange coyotes. All but one I think. I'm wondering if these ones are so desperate for food they dont always listen to their instincts.

I've also caught a coyote (mange) in a foot hold dipping in FMJ last night.

And I've had 4 or 5 foot holds set off and not catch with FMJ. They didn't catch because too much snow got on the traps before they fired.

Looks like I'm pulling my traps, pressurewash and boil.

Despite this though, lots of traps are being dug up.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Bushmonkey

Even though I'm pretty ticked off with the info in your post, thanks.

I did read a lot of reviews about it before using it and I never came across anything about scent issues.

I do find it odd though because I also tried dipping my snares in it. And I haven't had a refusal yet. But When I'm looking to see if I have a refusal I look to see if tracks came up to the snare from where I can see. I'm guessing the refusals are happening well before where I look for the tracks to show it.

I have caught a few coyotes on FMJ dipping snares though, but most have been mange coyotes. All but one I think. I'm wondering if these ones are so desperate for food they dont always listen to their instincts.

I've also caught a coyote (mange) in a foot hold dipping in FMJ last night.

And I've had 4 or 5 foot holds set off and not catch with FMJ. They didn't catch because too much snow got on the traps before they fired.

Looks like I'm pulling my traps, pressurewash and boil.

Despite this though, lots of traps are being dug up.

If you coated the traps with an acrylic paint, power washing and boiling won't likely remove the polymer and might even make the off gassing even worse.

You will need to use a solvent such as acetone to get that stuff off.

[nube]

I know some guys that spray paint their canine traps with no issue. They do it 6 months before they set them and do a few coats to protect from rust and hang them in the sun all summer. I find it interesting they would dig these traps up with the stuff you coated them in.

[Bushmonkey]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

If you coated the traps with an acrylic paint, power washing and boiling won't likely remove the polymer and might even make the off gassing even worse.

You will need to use a solvent such as acetone to get that stuff off.

thanks.. looks like I'm stuck with them as is for the year.

[Bushmonkey]

Originally Posted by nube

I know some guys that spray paint their canine traps with no issue. They do it 6 months before they set them and do a few coats to protect from rust and hang them in the sun all summer. I find it interesting they would dig these traps up with the stuff you coated them in.

This will be my future plans, but after paiting them I'll boil them too.

[KegRiver]

I'm not sure stripping them would be necessary.

Of course your situation may not allow my suggestion. If you can, I would suggest trying to cure the coating more.

If you could hang your traps somewhere really warm for a week that may be enough to reduce any gassing off to tolerable levels.
Once that is done a hot baking soda dip should get rid of most scents they may have picked up.

Of course it would mean taking your traps out of service for a week or more but stripping and redoing them would take almost as long, perhaps even longer.

Another possible alternative would be to wax them to seal in any odor.
By the time the wax wears off the speed dip should be fully cured.

Whatever you do I wish you luck.

This is not a total loss you know. You may have just saved a lot of guys a lot of grief.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by nube

I know some guys that spray paint their canine traps with no issue. They do it 6 months before they set them and do a few coats to protect from rust and hang them in the sun all summer. I find it interesting they would dig these traps up with the stuff you coated them in.

That may be the heart of the problem. This FMJ stuff may need six months or even more to properly cure in our northern climate.

I know for certain our evaporation rate is way less then that of the southern US or even the central states.

I would not be supersized if hanging those traps he's having trouble with might solve the problem completely, if he can hang them long enough or where it's warm enough.

[nube]

I always use spring time to clean up my trapping stuff and get it ready for next season. Usually a guy has some time on his hands to do things and it takes the stress off doing it in the fall.I like to get my stuff ready then put them outside and in the bush if possible. It's what I do but not the only way to do things of course. I find doing my dipping gives it lots of time to cure this way. I use speed dip and it really does a good job after enough coats and any white gas smell is gone after leaving it all summer.

[turbo mulcher]

Originally Posted by Bushmonkey

I keep them in a rubbermaid in my garage. When its time to set them, I pulled them out and boil the traps and chains. Then I wax them. Put them back in the bin and put the bin outside. With in a couple days I set them.

Never had a problem doing it this way. Same with my snares. I rarely get a snare refusal as long as I boil.

store them in the rubber made with a bunch of evergreen branches (fresh), always use only one set of gloves for the handling and setting of the trap.
Speed dip? type of fuel in the dip? hang for a couple of weeks ?

[Bushmonkey]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I'm not sure stripping them would be necessary.

Of course your situation may not allow my suggestion. If you can, I would suggest trying to cure the coating more.

If you could hang your traps somewhere really warm for a week that may be enough to reduce any gassing off to tolerable levels.
Once that is done a hot baking soda dip should get rid of most scents they may have picked up.

Of course it would mean taking your traps out of service for a week or more but stripping and redoing them would take almost as long, perhaps even longer.

Another possible alternative would be to wax them to seal in any odor.
By the time the wax wears off the speed dip should be fully cured.

Whatever you do I wish you luck.

This is not a total loss you know. You may have just saved a lot of guys a lot of grief.

The instructions say cure for 24 hours at a certain temp and then they are good to go.

I cured them for 48 hours in a heated garage, then hung them outside for a week or more.

Your probablty right in that they aren't fully cured, but I doubled the recommended curing time.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Bushmonkey

The instructions say cure for 24 hours at a certain temp and then they are good to go.

I cured them for 48 hours in a heated garage, then hung them outside for a week or more.

Your probably right in that they aren't fully cured, but I doubled the recommended curing time.

I would expect that to work for sure but who knows. Without a lot of local experience with this product anything is possible.

One thing at least giving it more time to cure won't hurt anything, if you can take them out of service for a while.
But if it doesn't work, you'd be out that time and loose more time testing it out.
At least with waxing it should solve the problem for now and you could do your testing next summer without loosing valuable fur.
The traps don't have to be set to see if they will get dug out.

I think you should be able to strip wax off a lot easier then that dip.
A hot bath and a pressure wash ought to do the trick for the wax.

I think wb may be right that a strong solvent is the only thing that would really get rid of that dip, if it works as advertised.

[Bushmonkey]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I would expect that to work for sure but who knows. Without a lot of local experience with this product anything is possible.

One thing at least giving it more time to cure won't hurt anything, if you can take them out of service for a while.
But if it doesn't work, you'd be out that time and loose more time testing it out.
At least with waxing it should solve the problem for now and you could do your testing next summer without loosing valuable fur.
The traps don't have to be set to see if they will get dug out.

I think you should be able to strip wax off a lot easier then that dip.
A hot bath and a pressure wash ought to do the trick for the wax.

I think wb may be right that a strong solvent is the only thing that would really get rid of that dip, if it works as advertised.

Thanks for the additional info.

I went and checked traps again tonight, warm weather has made things tough. plus 8 today and supposed to be above zero again tomorrow. My traps might be exposed by Sunday. If so, I'll yank them. If not, I'll yank half and I think I'll re dip them in FMJ and let them bake in the heater garage for a few days and air out for another few days.

I have a feeling wax won't stick to FMJ, it's really slippery slick

We've had a terrible winter for foot hold trapping. Farm feild are starting to show dirt and no snow in the forecast.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Bushmonkey

Thanks for the additional info.

I went and checked traps again tonight, warm weather has made things tough. plus 8 today and supposed to be above zero again tomorrow. My traps might be exposed by Sunday. If so, I'll yank them. If not, I'll yank half and I think I'll re dip them in FMJ and let them bake in the heater garage for a few days and air out for another few days.

I have a feeling wax won't stick to FMJ, it's really slippery slick

We've had a terrible winter for foot hold trapping. Farm feild are starting to show dirt and no snow in the forecast.

Best of luck to you.

Not much a guy can do about Chinooks. At least snares will still work.

It's even tough on beaver trappers. I've lost more then one beaver because the hole didn't freeze over and the beaver got on top the ice and was gone.