Fly tying

[Fly fishing Alberta]

I'm looking to get into fly tying, I was wondering if it's better to just go out and buy the vice and whip finisher etc. Separately or in one of those kits. Also I am curious whether the head cement or whip finish is a better way to keep the fly from falling apart. Also wondering what the difference between dubbing, hackle and hair and fur. And what they are all used for.
Thanks

[rycoma]

Go to the library and get a book on it. Before spending any money. It will depend on your commitment on learning and practicing. If you are only going to try maybe buy a cheap kit. If you think you maybe a little more than try a decent vice is the ticket and buy a tool kit with some good scissors. As for kits they either have a meh vice and some decent materials and tool or vice versa. I will say a good vice is the key if you want decent end product you need to have decent tool. As for whip finishing and head cement. Yes this is the best way to keep flys together. But most tiers use sally hanson hard as nails clear nail polish.

[Mr Flyguy]

Suggest you buy a good vise; there are no good vices and they will likely cost you more in the long run

[32-40win]

Always makes it difficult, if we don't know where the OP is, to point them to places to check things out at.
There are various kits around, all come with some tools and a vise, a cheap one, and varying amounts of materials. They can run from 50.00 to 500.00.
Some, like Thompson and Wapsi, come with slightly better tools. Then there is a kit like Flymart sells, a Veniard kit, decent price, no list of what is in it, but, it has "enough materials for 1000's of flies".
Thompson also sells a good tool kit with a vise, or without, no materials.
Fishin Hole has a line of cheap tools.
Cabela's has some cheap stuff there.
You can search for user instructions and reviews on brand name tools on You Tube.
Plenty of good instructional vids on You Tube for tying, here is one series;
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...88TMSnsB6GfQvx

You can peruse thru that to learn what you need use for what you want to tie

[Fish-Taco]

Originally Posted by Fly fishing Alberta

I'm looking to get into fly tying, I was wondering if it's better to just go out and buy the vice and whip finisher etc. Separately or in one of those kits. Also I am curious whether the head cement or whip finish is a better way to keep the fly from falling apart. Also wondering what the difference between dubbing, hackle and hair and fur. And what they are all used for.
Thanks

I would suggest watching some you tube videos and see if tying is something you want to really get into. If it is something you are going to get seriously into then I would suggest getting a good vice off the start as usually the vices that come with the kits are not the best. That's not to say that they wont work because they absolutely will. I had my first kit given to me and it wasn't long after I got into tying I wanted to upgrade my vice. I spent, I think, $100 on a decent vice that rotates and I really like it. It is nowhere near top of the line but it suits my needs.

A whip finish is a must on flys. Otherwise the thread will unravel and they fly will fall apart. Head cement (or something to that effect) is applied to the thread after it is finished to toughen up the thread and make the flys last longer. I use the already mentioned sally hansens tough as nails clearcoat nail polish for my flys. It's cheap and works really well.


Dubbing is basically fuzzy fibers (some are natural and some are synthetic) that come in a variety of colours and lengths. Some versions have flashy fibers mixed in as well to add a little sparkle to the fly. It is primarily used for making bug and fish bodies.

Hackle is a type of feather from a certain part of a bird. It comes in many different lengths, colours, and sizes. It is used for making wings, legs, bodies, imitating fish tails. Your imagination is the limit for uses really.

Hair is just that: Hair. You can (and I have) actually use dog and cat hair for tying your flys. If it has hair you can tie it into you fly. You can purchase deer, elk, rabbit, fox, goat, llama and squirrel hair all died (or not) for tying. You can use it for tails, wings, legs just to name a few. The same goes for fur.

When you start out tying it seems (and for me it was) very overwhelming. Don't get discouraged and stick with it. The best advice I can give you is to watch as many you tube videos as you can. There are an abundance of videos on every subject of fly tying and watching them will help you decide what direction you want to go and give you some very useful information.

If you do start tying your own flys (which I suggest you do) then I would suggest tying chironomids as a first fly. They are really easy to tie and are good at honing the basic skills of fly tying. But more importantly, they catch fish! Almost every colour combination you can come up with will work.

The first time you catch a fish on a fly that you tied yourself is a feeling that you will not forget and will stay with you for a lifetime. You will get hooked on tying (pun intended) and will refuse to buy flys from the store, I know I sure did.

Hope this helps!

[Fly fishing Alberta]

Originally Posted by Fish-Taco

I would suggest watching some you tube videos and see if tying is something you want to really get into. If it is something you are going to get seriously into then I would suggest getting a good vice off the start as usually the vices that come with the kits are not the best. That's not to say that they wont work because they absolutely will. I had my first kit given to me and it wasn't long after I got into tying I wanted to upgrade my vice. I spent, I think, $100 on a decent vice that rotates and I really like it. It is nowhere near top of the line but it suits my needs.



A whip finish is a must on flys. Otherwise the thread will unravel and they fly will fall apart. Head cement (or something to that effect) is applied to the thread after it is finished to toughen up the thread and make the flys last longer. I use the already mentioned sally hansens tough as nails clearcoat nail polish for my flys. It's cheap and works really well.





Dubbing is basically fuzzy fibers (some are natural and some are synthetic) that come in a variety of colours and lengths. Some versions have flashy fibers mixed in as well to add a little sparkle to the fly. It is primarily used for making bug and fish bodies.



Hackle is a type of feather from a certain part of a bird. It comes in many different lengths, colours, and sizes. It is used for making wings, legs, bodies, imitating fish tails. Your imagination is the limit for uses really.



Hair is just that: Hair. You can (and I have) actually use dog and cat hair for tying your flys. If it has hair you can tie it into you fly. You can purchase deer, elk, rabbit, fox, goat, llama and squirrel hair all died (or not) for tying. You can use it for tails, wings, legs just to name a few. The same goes for fur.



When you start out tying it seems (and for me it was) very overwhelming. Don't get discouraged and stick with it. The best advice I can give you is to watch as many you tube videos as you can. There are an abundance of videos on every subject of fly tying and watching them will help you decide what direction you want to go and give you some very useful information.



If you do start tying your own flys (which I suggest you do) then I would suggest tying chironomids as a first fly. They are really easy to tie and are good at honing the basic skills of fly tying. But more importantly, they catch fish! Almost every colour combination you can come up with will work.



The first time you catch a fish on a fly that you tied yourself is a feeling that you will not forget and will stay with you for a lifetime. You will get hooked on tying (pun intended) and will refuse to buy flys from the store, I know I sure did.



Hope this helps!

Thank you! This was definitely helpful

[happyfisher]

If ur in calgary go to hook and hackle club....that's where I learned........it's free and guys know their stuff....

[Mr Flyguy]

Originally Posted by Fish-Taco

I would suggest watching some you tube videos and see if tying is something you want to really get into. If it is something you are going to get seriously into then I would suggest getting a good vice off the start as usually the vices that come with the kits are not the best. That's not to say that they wont work because they absolutely will. I had my first kit given to me and it wasn't long after I got into tying I wanted to upgrade my vice. I spent, I think, $100 on a decent vice that rotates and I really like it. It is nowhere near top of the line but it suits my needs.

Vise, not vice...sheesh

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Mr Flyguy

Vise, not vice...sheesh

maybe he meant vice.

"I spent, I think, $100 on a decent vice that rotates and I really like it."

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by happyfisher

If ur in calgary go to hook and hackle club....that's where I learned........it's free and guys know their stuff....

Thanks! I've been contemplating getting into it and had only been aware of a $160 course from a local fly shop (mind you, that does include materials).

[tallieho]

Originally Posted by happyfisher

If ur in calgary go to hook and hackle club....that's where I learned........it's free and guys know their stuff....

You will see all the various guys /gals tying on different vises.Tiers tying trout-pike flies.Various tools,tricks,materials..Best investment ever..See you Wednesday Bow Waters canoe club bldg. mtg .starts at 7pm..Go to website for directions....Just east of deerft & 17 av se calgary

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by rycoma

Go to the library and get a book on it. Before spending any money. It will depend on your commitment on learning and practicing. If you are only going to try maybe buy a cheap kit. If you think you maybe a little more than try a decent vice is the ticket and buy a tool kit with some good scissors. As for kits they either have a meh vice and some decent materials and tool or vice versa. I will say a good vice is the key if you want decent end product you need to have decent tool. As for whip finishing and head cement. Yes this is the best way to keep flys together. But most tiers use sally hanson hard as nails clear nail polish.

Bold - Question, why is that? Better or cheaper? I have always used head cement.

[fishstix]

Buy a cheap kit. 50 bucks. It will get you going. I started with a cheap kit years ago and still use most of it today. You can get a kit from Bass pro that has the tools and materials needed for specific flies. Try something easy like a Wooley bugger kit.
Always use your whip finisher and head cement.

[ShortsideK]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

Bold - Question, why is that? Better or cheaper? I have always used head cement.

Sally Hansen's Hard as Nails has developed a strong following. Its not too pricey and works pretty well.
I used it for awhile and found it good where I chose to goop it on, such as pike fly heads. Not so much for small dries.

Its use is part of "the game".

Initially, a big part of "the game" is finding "alternative" materials. We spend a lot of time and effort NOT buying the commercial tying materials, thinking we're clever and saving $. We end up accumulating a bunch of junk materials that we never use and eventually go back to buying the pre-packaged stuff.
With the exception of quality hooks, the rest of the stuff is really pretty cheap when you consider how many flies you can tie.

There is nothing wrong with head cement. I pretty much now stick to head cement, Zap a Gap and UV resin.

That's my opinion.

[rycoma]

Head cement doesnt last as long. I have had a sally hansens hard as nails since I started tying again in the late 90's. Bought some head cement lasted a few month untill it became a dried up thick blob

[ShortsideK]

I found the opposite to be true. My head cement is a couple of years old and still nice and thin. A bottle of Sally Hansen's got thick and goopy after less than a year.
Probably due to improper closure.
I haven't found that Sally Hansen's does anything better than regular head cement, but like most things, if you think its better... it is.

[rycoma]

Nah it works just as good. No real difference other than the fact it dried up to fast.

[Mr Flyguy]

Been using Sally Hansen Hard as Nails for at least 15 (make that probably >20) years now. Can build up thick heads to receive painted eyes with two coats and easy to apply to the smallest wraps.

When it starts to thicken I use acetone to thin back to the right flow. Never wasted a bottle.

Oh, don't use Gorilla super glue. I heard from somebody here that it's not waterproof and flies can unravel...

[ReconWilly]

Originally Posted by ShortsideK

I found the opposite to be true. My head cement is a couple of years old and still nice and thin. A bottle of Sally Hansen's got thick and goopy after less than a year.
Probably due to improper closure.
I haven't found that Sally Hansen's does anything better than regular head cement, but like most things, if you think its better... it is.

I just spent a couple of weeks tying tonnes of wire worms in different colors and color combinations and in the process went through a lot of Sally Hansens, it was constantly thickening up so i went hunting for a proper thinner that wouldn't alter the chemical composition and properties of the polish, i found this stuff and it works amazing to thin and restore the polish to optimal concitentcy it's called

"beauty secrets nail polish thinner"

You can buy it at Sally beauty retail outlets, theres a few in Calgary just Google it, $5 for a 4 ounce bottle that will last through a few bottles of Sally Hansens.

Oh I'll also mention that i tried to order it online but they don't ship to Canada for some reason, the girls in the store confirmed that fact when i went to a retail store...not sure what the reason behind that nonsense is but that's the way it is.

[ReconWilly]

Originally Posted by Mr Flyguy

Been using Sally Hansen Hard as Nails for at least 15 (make that probably >20) years now. Can build up thick heads to receive painted eyes with two coats and easy to apply to the smallest wraps.

When it starts to thicken I use acetone to thin back to the right flow. Never wasted a bottle.

Oh, don't use Gorilla super glue. I heard from somebody here that it's not waterproof and flies can unravel...

See my other reply, acetone is not a proper thinner and will alter the chemical composition and properties of the polish.

Beauty secrets nail polish thinner is made out of butyl acetate, ethyl acetate and heptane.

It will restore the natural properties without changing them.

Works GREAT!!

$5 at Sally beauty retail outlets.

[ReconWilly]

A few creations.

I can't believe i actually got a picture to post...been trying for years...

[Mr Flyguy]

Your bloodworms either have tumors or are pregnant

[Mr Flyguy]

Originally Posted by ReconWilly

See my other reply, acetone is not a proper thinner and will alter the chemical composition and properties of the polish.

Being a chemist, the jury is still out on that and I haven't seen any evidence of degrading the polish. Maybe it's because after one or two thinnings with acetone, I add fresh polish to the bottle.

One thing for sure: acetone is a hell of a lot cheaper!

[professori]

I have thinned Sally's with acetone for years. If it alters the chemistry, it hasn't had any effect on the durability or lustre of the polish, at least as far as i could see. I don't often use Sally's as a head cement (i actually rarely use head cement-if you can whip finish, head cement is quite redundant IMO) but I do use it a finish on patterns like chironomids, bloodworms, etc. It builds up a body quickly and is very durable and long-lasting.

[ReconWilly]

Originally Posted by Mr Flyguy

Your bloodworms either have tumors or are pregnant

It's not a tumah!

[ReconWilly]

Originally Posted by Mr Flyguy

Being a chemist, the jury is still out on that and I haven't seen any evidence of degrading the polish. Maybe it's because after one or two thinnings with acetone, I add fresh polish to the bottle.

One thing for sure: acetone is a hell of a lot cheaper!

Well I'm certainly in no position to have a nonsensical argument with a chemist nor a tier with vastly more experience than i have, but i do want to make it clear that i spent a couple of hours reading the manufacturers guidelines.

Why you ask?, i simply wanted to know, now i do and thought that i would share, acetone is a remover and thinner is a restorer.

The cost is a wash, i also read that hot water is recommended over remover if you can't find the thinner, anyways i know of a lot guys using remover as thinner and no one has ever cried about the results!

I have a lifetime supply of thinner for about $10 (2bottles) so I'm good for now, anyways i will not presume to be in a position to preach to the experienced tiers as I'm still a sponge for information, i just started tying before Christmas.

[Mr Flyguy]

Originally Posted by ReconWilly

i just started tying before Christmas.

Hey, keep on tying and having fun learning. I've only been tying for about 45 years and still learn something new every session at the vise!

PS I don't think that hot water will affect Sally Hansen once it has dried 'cause spills on my pants or shirts don't disappear in washing and my dubbed balanced leeches are still intact after immersion in near boiling water (to smooth out the dubbed body).

[professori]

Originally Posted by ReconWilly

The cost is a wash, i also read that hot water is recommended over remover if you can't find the thinner

I believe you are right, however, you need to drop the tightly sealed bottle of Sally's into hot water. The heat will make the lacquer thinner. Adding hot water to the bottle will completely ruin the product.

[ReconWilly]

Originally Posted by Mr Flyguy

Hey, keep on tying and having fun learning. I've only been tying for about 45 years and still learn something new every session at the vise!

PS I don't think that hot water will affect Sally Hansen once it has dried 'cause spills on my pants or shirts don't disappear in washing and my dubbed balanced leeches are still intact after immersion in near boiling water (to smooth out the dubbed body).

Ha! I now have a dedicated set of tying pants with hardened thigh patches!

You can't get this stuff out of fabric hahaha...

[ReconWilly]

Originally Posted by professori

I believe you are right, however, you need to drop the tightly sealed bottle of Sally's into hot water. The heat will make the lacquer thinner. Adding hot water to the bottle will completely ruin the product.

Makes sense, i thought about giving it a try and then i decided to find the real deal, that stuff must not be heavily used or requested as i had a few women look at me sideways for asking about nail polish thinner...it seems that most of them never even heard of the concept, i tried a few stores that sell polish and none had any thinners for sale...so i asked my sister who works in a salon and she directed me to Sally beauty which i had no idea even existed until now.