Garland beat up in jail

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

If you support going down that road then we could also imprison the psychiatrists and parole boards who set killers back out among us. In a CBC article detailing Garlands prior criminal history that wasn't admissible in court, it noted the assumed identity he lived under for many years, stolen from a 14 year old who died in a car accident decades ago. Garland also operated a meth lab. He's been diagnosed with ADD and when he was previously paroled his psychiatrist noted he was unlikely to pose a risk of violence to help him get out after 6 months of a 3 year sentence. Sure, even if he had served his full term he'd have been out in time for the murder, but perhaps he wouldn't have been out in time to have made enemies with Alvin Liknes in the first place as that oil pump project would have been done already? That psychiatrists conclusion set Garland out 2.5 years early and look what he did with his time.....

Psychiatrists just said Vince Li was unlikely to reoffend so he's out among us now, and both of these killers have substantial mental health issues. Why some people have so much more sympathy for Li I'll never figure out. Rabid dogs get a bang-flop, Garland and Li should both be treated similarly. Nothing positive for society will ever result from such a person being free; zip, zilch, nada.

I do think they should be held responsible for their part, what that would work out to I have no idea.
Maybe accessory after the fact or something along those lines.

Maybe then they wouldn't be so quick to release dangerous people.

[Supergrit]

To bad his expend in jail probably just doubled more then likely he will be put in special care away from the general inmates. Just like Clifford Olson.

[calgarychef]

In glad he got beat up its a start at least. However I don't think we should rely on inmates to do our dirty work for us. Putting him in general population is the same as executing him..... If we want that as his end then it behooves the system to execute him legally. Or at least leave a piece of rope in his cell

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

In glad he got beat up its a start at least. However I don't think we should rely on inmates to do our dirty work for us. Putting him in general population is the same as executing him..... If we want that as his end then it behooves the system to execute him legally. Or at least leave a piece of rope in his cell

I'll donate the quarter:

[Lites out]

the part about inmates doing the work isnt politically correct however it may deter criminals from ever going to jail if the conditions were a little tougher on them!! The government is who should deal the justice!!"Death penalty"without a doubt in this case

[Sliderslider]

hes going to continue getting what he deserves.

[MAC]

Originally Posted by Lites out

the part about inmates doing the work isnt politically correct however it may deter criminals from ever going to jail if the conditions were a little tougher on them!! The government is who should deal the justice!!"Death penalty"without a doubt in this case

Being afraid of jail, death penalty only works if you think you may be caught.
Most think they are smart and wont get caught. To be honest the amount of unsolved crimes, is evidence that sometimes they wont.

We are supposed to be better than Garland, wishing him harm is in my view no different from what he did. He is scum and deserves every bit if not more than 75 years.

MAC

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Lites out

the part about inmates doing the work isnt politically correct however it may deter criminals from ever going to jail

The only inmates that have to worry about jail house justice are rapists and child killers. For the rest it is like a good old boys reunion.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by MAC

Being afraid of jail, death penalty only works if you think you may be caught.
Most think they are smart and wont get caught. To be honest the amount of unsolved crimes, is evidence that sometimes they wont.

That is the root of the problem but I don't think it's so much that they think they are too smart to get caught, I don't believe they think much about getting caught if at all.

Like poachers or people who drink and drive. It's the same mentality, just a different class of crime.

It's a mind set that says, I have a right to do this, I'm not hurting anyone, or, everyone else is doing it.
It's rationalizing at it's worst.

What I find most interesting is it's the same mindset I see in many who have never even visited someone in prison.
It seems to me that such a mindset is very likely to lead to a prison sentence at some time in the future.

Yet it is those same so called law abiding productive citizens who yell the loudest about prisoners having it too good.

[2 Tollers]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

In a CBC article detailing Garlands prior criminal history that wasn't admissible in court, it noted the assumed identity he lived under for many years, stolen from a 14 year old who died in a car accident decades ago. Garland also operated a meth lab. He's been diagnosed with ADD and when he was previously paroled his psychiatrist noted he was unlikely to pose a risk of violence to help him get out after 6 months of a 3 year sentence. Sure, even if he had served his full term he'd have been out in time for the murder, but perhaps he wouldn't have been out in time to have made enemies with Alvin Liknes in the first place as that oil pump project would have been done already? That psychiatrists conclusion set Garland out 2.5 years early and look what he did with his time.....

I do not get this. How is his previous history deemed to be inadmissible? The track record shows he was a train headed for a wreck and in this case he took lives. I just do not get this part of the "justice" system.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

The only inmates that have to worry about jail house justice are rapists and child killers. For the rest it is like a good old boys reunion.

That's not the prisons I visited. In the prisons I visited, sitting in the wrong chair could earn an inmate a severe beating.

Prisons are a collection of the worst of the worst and there is no honor among thieves.

For some, it's like a homecoming, we call them gang bangers. For most is a dog eat dog world where the only safe place is inside the SHU.

We've all heard the stories about the bar of soap. On the inside that is no joke, it's reality. It's day to day life.

Some would say they deserve it. Maybe they do. And what do you and I deserve ? Have you ever drank too much and driven even just one block or down one backroad, have you ever smoked a joint ? Did you ever steal a candy bar?

Today I was reading an article about how border security can demand the password to any electronic device you own, if you cross any international border.
That story quoted someone who said that if they had access all the details of you life, there was no one they couldn't get a conviction against.

I know this, many times I have thought I was complying fully with the law only to find that there was some little thing I had overlooked.
It was never enough to send me to prison but it has cost me a good deal of money over the years.

And I wonder, have I ever done something that could have landed me in jail.
Like giving some bully a ride home, the day he decides to murder four police. From what I hear that could well have happened to any one of us.

I don't know I wouldn't have done the same thing. I do know I've heard a lot of trash talk in my life and I have always considered it just talk.

For two guys, thinking it was just trash talk netted them a lengthy prison sentence.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

What I find most interesting is it's the same mindset I see in many who have never even visited someone in prison.
It seems to me that such a mindset is very likely to lead to a prison sentence at some time in the future.

Yet it is those same so called law abiding productive citizens who yell the loudest about prisoners having it too good.

That is a very interesting point of view. I have been inside prisons more than a few times. It is my opinion that there are many that should not be there and a few that should never get out. In any event prison is not a place where I would want to be. I have never done time, not because I was afraid of prison but because for some reason I had no desire to do an intentional act that would might lead to prison.

I am very fortunate!

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

That's not the prisons I visited. In the prisons I visited, sitting in the wrong chair could earn an inmate a severe beating.

Prisons are a collection of the worst of the worst and there is no honor among thieves.

For some, it's like a homecoming, we call them gang bangers. For most is a dog eat dog world where the only safe place is inside the SHU.

We've all heard the stories about the bar of soap. On the inside that is no joke, it's reality. It's day to day life.

Some would say they deserve it. Maybe they do. And what do you and I deserve ? Have you ever drank too much and driven even just one block or down one backroad, have you ever smoked a joint ? Did you ever steal a candy bar?

Today I was reading an article about how border security can demand the password to any electronic device you own, if you cross any international border.
That story quoted someone who said that if they had access all the details of you life, there was no one they couldn't get a conviction against.

I know this, many times I have thought I was complying fully with the law only to find that there was some little thing I had overlooked.
It was never enough to send me to prison but it has cost me a good deal of money over the years.

And I wonder, have I ever done something that could have landed me in jail.
Like giving some bully a ride home, the day he decides to murder four police. From what I hear that could well have happened to any one of us.

I don't know I wouldn't have done the same thing. I do know I've heard a lot of trash talk in my life and I have always considered it just talk.

For two guys, thinking it was just trash talk netted them a lengthy prison sentence.

Keg
I do not take issue with most of what you say. I will say that for the most part there is honor among thieves. There is also a pecking order that has to be earned. If you are going to move up in chairs you will have to fight for that possession. If you are a bank robber or car thief or a cop killer you will fit in.
One that will never fit in is a skinner or a child abuser.

Like I said in a previous post I have seen some who deserve to be there and some who don't. The ones who don't is not because they were innocent but because they were not as fortunate as some including me. I am sure there must be some innocents in jail but I do not think I have ever met one.

Yep! Count me among those who hooked candy bars, but really early on I realized it was not right. I never was caught. I think I was a little worried that Jesus was watching me. Yep! I have told lies before, but that is not a crime or criminal. Don't think Jesus likes it.

BTW driving a bully home is not a criminal act unless it is proven that you knew what he was going to do when he got home. Proving criminal intent is a vital part of proving any criminal charge. No one should be convicted by accidently doing something. It is either criminal intent or negligence that is criminal.

Yep, we all fall short and but for the grace of God there go I. I am fortunate!

Some are not as fortunate as me.

Keg if what you say is true, then we have both seen the inside and I do not think we disagree on much and what I said probably had more to do with habitual criminal or gang bangers.

If I have missed anything, I am sorry that we disagree.

PS One thing is that is not good is when a first offender for something minor gets thrown in with bad guys. Usually there is a conversion and in most cases that the good guy learn to be bad. That is not right.

[Lites out]

Con College ^^^

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by 2 Tollers

I do not get this. How is his previous history deemed to be inadmissible? The track record shows he was a train headed for a wreck and in this case he took lives. I just do not get this part of the "justice" system.

Previous history is admissible, but usually not during the portion of the trial that determines guilt or innocents, Accused should be judged on fact of case and not on his record. Some really bad dudes may actually be not guilty of the charge before the court and a jury hearing prior bad things may be an argument that bad guy did not get fair trial and grounds for mistrial. The law has determined that this is fair. Sometimes a judge may hear some history pertaining to case but usually dismisses the jury and hears that evidence in their absence. If he allows it as admissible he will bring back the jury and instruct them.

Once guilt has been declared the judge does get to examine previous record and history to determine sentence. In this case I think that history was hugh in has verdict of 3 times 25 years and should insure that this guy will never be free,

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

Keg
I do not take issue with most of what you say. I will say that for the most part there is honor among thieves. There is also a pecking order that has to be earned. If you are going to move up in chairs you will have to fight for that possession. If you are a bank robber or car thief or a cop killer you will fit in.
One that will never fit in is a skinner or a child abuser.

Like I said in a previous post I have seen some who deserve to be there and some who don't. The ones who don't is not because they were innocent but because they were not as fortunate as some including me. I am sure there must be some innocents in jail but I do not think I have ever met one.

Yep! Count me among those who hooked candy bars, but really early on I realized it was not right. I never was caught. I think I was a little worried that Jesus was watching me. Yep! I have told lies before, but that is not a crime or criminal. Don't think Jesus likes it.

BTW driving a bully home is not a criminal act unless it is proven that you knew what he was going to do when he got home. Proving criminal intent is a vital part of proving any criminal charge. No one should be convicted by accidently doing something. It is either criminal intent or negligence that is criminal.

Yep, we all fall short and but for the grace of God there go I. I am fortunate!

Some are not as fortunate as me.

Keg if what you say is true, then we have both seen the inside and I do not think we disagree on much and what I said probably had more to do with habitual criminal or gang bangers.

If I have missed anything, I am sorry that we disagree.

PS One thing is that is not good is when a first offender for something minor gets thrown in with bad guys. Usually there is a conversion and in most cases that the good guy learn to be bad. That is not right.

I'm not sure we disagree on anything, save perhaps the reason that Hennessey and Cheeseman were sent to prison. But that's a whole different subject.

The nature of posting on a forum greatly limits to what degree one can explain oneself.
It is true that child abusers are the bottom of the pecking order but what few may understand is that it is possible to serve out ones time without other prisoners knowing what an individual is really in for, unless that individual's crime is known through means other then self confession.

In my experience, prisoners do not have special access to other prisoners records. Each man's crimes are unknown to his cell mates unless they were published in the news, or admitted by the individual, to his cell mates.

So although there is a pecking order it often is governed more by an individuals ability to intimidate his cell mates then by his crime.
That is not to say that one's crimes do not play a role in the hierarchy, they certainly may, if known.

What I found surprising is that on the inside a man of God is granted great respect disproportionate to his physical or legal authority.

A prison ministry leader, ( I was a wanna be, accompanied by real prison ministers,) has no authority outside the spiritual. We could not grant or gain special favor for any prisoner. We could not reduce their sentence and wouldn't if we could. But even the gang bangers accepted us with the utmost respect. Far more respect then we get on the outside.

I admit my experience with prison and criminals is somewhat limited.
But I know this, I could have wound up serving most of my life in one of those cells. I know how close many of us come without ever getting caught.

And I know that the average prisoner in the institutions I visited were very average people who had made some very poor choices, but choices I myself had made at least once in my life.

But I do realize that my experiences do not encompass all that prisons or prisoners are about. I only report what I have seen, not what the whole experience is about.

[covey ridge]

With respect to the topic of this thread I have this to say. Just my opinion.

It is up to the Police to investigate and gather evidence.

It is the Crowns job to present the evidence before a court in this case a Judge and Jury.

It is the Defence Lawyers job to assure that the accused is represented to the best of his/her ability.

Everyone, including the most deplorable have that right.

It is the jury's task to determine if accused is guilty or not.

If found guilty it is the judges job to mete out punishment within the law.

If it is decided that punishment is time spent in jail the accused is turned over to those who will supervise his custody. No matter how deplorable the accused is, once in custody the life and personal safety of the accused is in the institution's care.

There is no one authorized to administer further punishment. If there is proof, criminal charges should be laid against the inmates that administer this jail house justice. If there is proof of wilful negligence on the part of remand staff that allowed this, criminal charges should be laid.

If one believes in the law he/she should know this action as not acceptable.

If one is spiritual he/she might condemn this act. In the Hebrew and Christian tradition Revenge belongs to God.

I read an article in the Sun where Lawyer Balfour Der spoke out against this incident. I've known Mr. Der for many years and I think he was spot on.

For those who seem to take pleasure to the beating this person has taken I will try not to be judgemental.

[MAC]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

With respect to the topic of this thread I have this to say. Just my opinion.

It is up to the Police to investigate and gather evidence.

It is the Crowns job to present the evidence before a court in this case a Judge and Jury.

It is the Defence Lawyers job to assure that the accused is represented to the best of his/her ability.

Everyone, including the most deplorable have that right.

It is the jury's task to determine if accused is guilty or not.

If found guilty it is the judges job to mete out punishment within the law.

If it is decided that punishment is time spent in jail the accused is turned over to those who will supervise his custody. No matter how deplorable the accused is, once in custody the life and personal safety of the accused is in the institution's care.

There is no one authorized to administer further punishment. If there is proof, criminal charges should be laid against the inmates that administer this jail house justice. If there is proof of wilful negligence on the part of remand staff that allowed this, criminal charges should be laid.

If one believes in the law he/she should know this action as not acceptable.

If one is spiritual he/she might condemn this act. In the Hebrew and Christian tradition Revenge belongs to God.

I read an article in the Sun where Lawyer Balfour Der spoke out against this incident. I've known Mr. Der for many years and I think he was spot on.

For those who seem to take pleasure to the beating this person has taken I will try not to be judgemental.

Good post I agree 100%

Looks like the offenders have been tracked down and charged.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2017/02/22...ouglas-garland

MAC

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by Ricki Bobby

If only Vader would get some love too!

Vadar will be eligible for unescorted absences from jail pretty soon.

http://globalnews.ca/news/3266095/tr.../?sf58055393=1

[WesternAlien]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

With respect to the topic of this thread I have this to say. Just my opinion.

It is up to the Police to investigate and gather evidence.

It is the Crowns job to present the evidence before a court in this case a Judge and Jury.

It is the Defence Lawyers job to assure that the accused is represented to the best of his/her ability.

Everyone, including the most deplorable have that right.

It is the jury's task to determine if accused is guilty or not.

If found guilty it is the judges job to mete out punishment within the law.

It is up to jalemates and guards (occasionally "looking the other way") to make sure punishment actually punishes.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by WesternAlien

It is up to jalemates and guards (occasionally "looking the other way") to make sure punishment actually punishes.

Punishment is for correcting children, it's useless and pointless on adults.

Most of the worst people in prisons are no stranger to pain and punishment.
They are used to it, indeed they expect it.

In their minds it only confirms what they believe about themselves and how society regards them. That's why it does not work.

I've seen very large, very strong men break down and cry when they are treated as an equal, because they don't know how to handle that.
All they ever knew in their lives was hate.

Punishment only compounds the hate.

Prisons need to be a place where inmates can learn to see themselves and the world differently. And at the same time they need to be a place where inmates can not hurt or in other ways victimize the public.

There should be only one sentence, you stay until you demonstrate a change in attitude.

Releasing a killer who has made no effort to change makes no sense but releasing a man who has changed his life makes a lot of sense.

Who better to warn kids and young adults about the dangers of a life of crime then someone who has lived it and changed his life for the better?

I've walked down the halls of prisons among the worst of the worst and it alarms me when I see the same attitude here that I saw there.

That's right, convicts believe in punishment, they even expect it. They are used to it, on the inside and on the outside.
And they have learned to be very good at taking it and then going on with their lives as if nothing happened.

"You're a gentleman," they used to say to him. "You shouldn't have gone murdering people with a hatchet; that's no occupation for a gentleman."

[MAC]

Originally Posted by WesternAlien

It is up to jalemates and guards (occasionally "looking the other way") to make sure punishment actually punishes.

Doesnt make sense, Garland is a bad guy for beating and killing people.'lets beat and kill him, how will we know who is good and who is bad

MAC

[Skoaltender]

His nuts should be stomped out on a daily basis for the entire sentence. On top of his daily "visit" from "big bob".

[WesternAlien]

Life is inherently unfair. And justice is not the same as fairness. Supposed to, but the gap is still there.

When that gap widens too much (like finding adequate punishment for a cold-blood murderer of 5-year old kid) - then other forces and mechanisms inevitably try to jump in for corrective action. Not even human nature, just plain nature, like gravity.

[BuckCuller]

Wouldn't hurt my feelings to see him take a lethal injection of lead.
And yes I am not so clueless as to not be able to differentiate who is the good guy.
The good guy just happens to be a young boy that was murdered in cold blood.
If that isn't enough enrage your inner self there is something wrong with you.

[Lites out]

All those that want to keep him in jail to the cost of aprox. $5,000,000 probably voted Trudeau!!!I would spend $ 1

[catnthehat]

Take some look at some of the posts made here and think - really think about why thus thread is now closed
Cat