There is only one way to get this done !Shut down trophy hunting !

[The Cook]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

Canada is big country. It would be a totally different stat if it was done by animals per square mile.

Ontario and quebexico have huge populations of black bear and are close to a large yankee customer base.

[slickwilly]

For anyone distressed by the "4/5ths opposed to trophy hunting" stat in that article, here is a good conversation that discusses this issue from Steven Rinella of the TV show Meateater:
http://www.themeateater.com/podcasts...eg-blascovich/

He talks to a poli sci researcher who is doing a side project on public opinion about hunting. The whole thing is very interesting, but the most interesting thing is that one of the most effective things you can do to improve the opinion of hunting is just informing non-hunters (not anti-hunters, that isn't who this is about) about the rules that govern what is hunted and why.

Most non-hunters (again, not anti-hunters) do not have any idea that there are rules and organizations that determine what can be hunted. I suspect this is why people say they are opposed to "trophy hunting": it has been defined (mostly by african hunts) as horn hunting. Whether or not that is what happens in Africa, or the biological benefits of shooting old males is not the point. That's what people think is happening, and what non-hunters think is what turns into real rules. We know that it isn't done that way here, since anyone who does is by definition a poacher, but many people don't.

[waterninja]

I'm not sure where this fellow is getting his facts from, but the numbers sure seem high to me. As for the other species he was talking about, I really have no idea how things are done in the FAR north. As for Owls, I don't think even FN people can harvest them, but not sure.
I do agree with one concept put foreward in the article and that is the amount of trophy hunting that is supposedly happening. I am an avid hunter and fisherman, and while it's great to get "mr big", That is not why I am out in the field.

[Suzukisam]

You don't need to shut it down just make it illegal to export any or all out of country weather mounted or tanned or in meat form. Yup that sucks from another country but hey such is life.

[Twobucks]

I've seen the tables from the polling company that these figures are pulled from. It shows roughly 70% support for hunting for meat and 92% support for eating meat. The figure quoted comes from a question worded roughly: Do you support sport hunting (trophy hunting)?

This is lazy reporting (her recent whirling disease story also had serious problems) and is fixable.

IMHO hunters need to get on top of the term "trophy hunting". It's mostly misleading shorthand for some fictional activity where people shoot animals at random, cut some fur or antlers off them and walk away in search of the next kill. As a term used in media, hunters should be working to challenge editors and reporters to define it or drop it.

As the guy from the Rinella podcast basically says, explaining the actual regulations and process of hunting and province level game management would go a long way to preventing this kind of misleading drivel from gaining any momentum.

[Fur]

Another big issue with any hunting is FB/social media warriors.

Social media has been hunting's biggest enemy by far. All social media does is give a massive voice to the uninformed.

[dgl1948]

Originally Posted by CMichaud

10000 black bears a year exported?!?! Am I reading that number right? I call BS.

I am with you. Someone needs to call his bluff and ask where he gets his numbers.

[dgl1948]

Originally Posted by The Cook

Ontario and quebexico have huge populations of black bear and are close to a large yankee customer base.

Ontario has not had a spring black bear season for a long time. It has just started up again.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Fur

Another big issue with any hunting is FB/social media warriors.

Social media has been hunting's biggest enemy by far. All social media does is give a massive voice to the uninformed.

This forum is social media as well, and although we do ourselves no favors it doesn't matter , the anti hunting /meat, killing crowd will use what they have too too get their way.
This has been going on Long before computers.

Cat

[Fur]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

This forum is social media as well, and although we do ourselves no favors it doesn't matter , the anti hunting /meat, killing crowd will use what they have too too get their way.
This has been going on Long before computers.

Cat

True true.

I just find word spreads a lot quicker. 20 years ago you think we would have heard so much about Cecil the lion? Twitter and FB sure helped get that into mainstream media and get all the antis around the globe rallying.

[Huevos]

There are over 200 guide outfitters in BC. Even if they average out at 10 bears a year, do the math. That is 2000 bears a year in BC alone. The actual numbers are probably a lot higher. I know when I guided, we killed at least 20 per year. each province has bear hunting, at least in the upper half of the provinces. so 10000 is a reasonable number to me. I thought it would be more. Imagine if no one was managing bears! We export that many and we still have two bear quota. Seems to me that there would be all kinds of problems if noone was shooting bears.

[Fur]

Originally Posted by Huevos

There are over 200 guide outfitters in BC. Even if they average out at 10 bears a year, do the math. That is 2000 bears a year in BC alone. The actual numbers are probably a lot higher. I know when I guided, we killed at least 20 per year. each province has bear hunting, at least in the upper half of the provinces. so 10000 is a reasonable number to me. I thought it would be more. Imagine if no one was managing bears! We export that many and we still have two bear quota. Seems to me that there would be all kinds of problems if noone was shooting bears.

Ask Ontario about canceling the spring bear hunt; that did not turn out well!

[Red Bullets]

From the APOS website ... The Alberta Professional Outfitters Society (APOS) is a not for profit, Delegated Administrative Organization (DAO), administering the outfitted-hunting industry in Alberta. Established in 1997, it is an arms-length, self-funded, legal entity with the purpose of delivering services traditionally handled by government.

APOS was created or implimented by government to manage the outfitting services in the province. It would be better if the services were better defined or be updated rather than just dismantled.

IMO only...
My analogy : APOS is like a jar of fresh made jerky... If one piece of jerky is tainted the whole jar goes bad. APOS needs to get the tainted jerks out of the jar. After all it is called the Alberta "PROFESSIONAL" Outfitters Society. Not the Alberta Glory and Greed Society. Some, not all, outfitters need their chakras realigned.

Hunting in the province is an ever evolving entity. This is a good read on Canda's hunting history.... section 6.1 is about Alberta.

http://dspace.ucalgary.ca/bitstream/...09Wildlife.pdf

Government has much to consider as they have since the beginning of the province. All forms of hunting are a part of our heritage.

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by Suzukisam

You don't need to shut it down just make it illegal to export any or all out of country weather mounted or tanned or in meat form. Yup that sucks from another country but hey such is life.

This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard

[thetruth]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard

X 2, and it's just this kind of blinkered incoherence the anti's are counting on to divide and conquer....

[West O'5]

Originally Posted by CMichaud

10000 black bears a year exported?!?! Am I reading that number right? I call BS.

Easily 10,000

Originally Posted by dgl1948

I am with you. Someone needs to call his bluff and ask where he gets his numbers.

I think if you dig deeper you'll find 10,000 is a conservative estimate,the actual number is likely higher.

Originally Posted by Huevos

There are over 200 guide outfitters in BC. Even if they average out at 10 bears a year, do the math. That is 2000 bears a year in BC alone. The actual numbers are probably a lot higher. I know when I guided, we killed at least 20 per year. each province has bear hunting, at least in the upper half of the provinces. so 10000 is a reasonable number to me. I thought it would be more. Imagine if no one was managing bears! We export that many and we still have two bear quota. Seems to me that there would be all kinds of problems if noone was shooting bears.

This exactly.^^
Little tiny NB alone accounts for 2-3000 bears annually,the vast majority harvested by non-resident hunters,mostly from the NE USA/New England states.
NB sells around 4000+/- bear tags annually,somewhere around 75% of those are non-res licences.Mandatory guide requirement for non-res hunters,and most NB Outfitters boast 100% opportunity,with actual success around 90% taking into account those that hold off for a bigger bear.Around 40% of non-res hunters in NB harvest a 2nd bear on their hunt.
NB has a very healthy bear population and in fact in recent years has raised the annual limit back up to 2 bears/yr after a 20(?) year period or so when it was reduced to one/year bag limit.
So there's at least 4000 exported bears from BC and NB alone.
NS has healthy bear numbers and non-res hunters,but no spring season,so not big numbers as most non-res hunters are busy hunting other species during traditional fall seasons.
NFLD has a reputation for huge black bears and a healthy outfitting industry catering to non-res.
Ontario,Quebec,Manitoba have an abundance of bears,well established outfitting industries,and close proximity to an enormous sport hunting market in northern tier states.Ontario also recently overturned its much publicized spring bear hunt ban after common sense and sound management finally won the day over emotion based hunting ban......likely several thousand bears annually coming out of Ontario alone once again?
Northern SK and AB both are known for big bears and colour phase opportunities likely best on the continent....another few thousand/year exported from these two.
Please,do tell me again how 10k is a BS figure??
If anything,it's conservative imho.

You don't need to shut it down just make it illegal to export any or all out of country weather mounted or tanned or in meat form. Yup that sucks from another country but hey such is life.

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard

Originally Posted by thetruth

X 2, and it's just this kind of blinkered incoherence the anti's are counting on to divide and conquer....

X3

[bonecollector10]

Where do you enter the draw for owl?

[Rocketfodder]

Here is the link to the report where Donavan gets his numbers and species, owls, otters, etc.
http://www.ifaw.org/sites/default/fi...port_US_v2.pdf

The source is from CITES reports. Check out the criteria used , pg. 20 of the report
Anybody wanting to transfer out of Canada a study skin or a mount of an owl (or any other critter whether bred in captivity or from the wild would of had their cites paperwork included in the "hunted for trophy" category, whether it was found dead or harvested for research purposes.


RF

[300magman]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard

x3. Dont know if anyone caught it but they had the guy from ban trophy hunting hunting on the jesperson show on ched this morning....i texted in a pile of facts to counteract what he was saying but it didnt get read that i caught anyway. That report he keeps referencing is the equivalent of a race relations report put out by the KKK....biased beyond belief.

[muzzy]

He was on 630 CHED radio this morning came across as an idiot He made comment about trophy hunting owls otters lynx and narwhal. Host pointed out that hunting owls illegal and he was stuttering and fumbling and said two were taken in canada as trophies what an idiot. Host had a manitoba guide and bowhunter as a counter commentator Ryan Derlago and he did an excellent job

[KegRiver]

Gentlemen, arguing with radicals is useless, let the antis say what they will.

Our fight is with the media outlets that give these lunatics a soap box to stand on.

As long as there are media outlets willing to give these creeps a soap box, we will be fighting a loosing battle.
Fighting the antis themselves is useless. For one thing they don't care about the truth. For another, there is a new anti born every day, the supply is endless, until they no longer have a hope of finding their two minutes in the spotlight.

Remove the spotlight and they loose the ability to recruit new members.
It's as simple as that.

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Donavan is a very poor liar using any excuse he can to promote his own agenda
Cat

Listened to him on QR77 He blew so much smoke up his own arse he thought he was GOD... never heard so much BS in 20 minutes in my life....Well except when Truly dumb speaks.