gravel extraction proposal near Stauffer Cr.

[Don Andersen]

Folks,



There is a gravel pit proposed for an area just west of the Stainbrooks Springs Property that is the source of much of the water for Stauffer Creek.

What concerns me is the very real chance of upsetting the spring flows to Stauffer.

Some years ago Petro-Can did a ground radar study of the underground flows in the Stauffer Valley. The study revealed a lot of the underground flow would be directly in the path of the proposed gravel extraction effort.

I would suggest that those that care, reflect your care somehow. Dept of Environment is a great place to start followed by Dept of Fisheries and Oceans, and of course CC both your MLA and MP the letter you send. The information meeting date/place is below.

There is really no public venue to express your concerns other than writing letters. The most important letter you can write is to the:





Clearwater County,

Attention Planning Dept.

Regarding Associated Aggregates Inc. Application

P.O. Box 550

4340 -47 Avenue

Rocky Mountain House, AB | T4T 1A4

Office: 403.845.4444 | Fax: 403.845.7330



Note: the letters are time sensitive. My understanding is the development board will meet in August. Your letters must be in to them by mid-July in order to be part of the package going to the development board.



For those that care to understand and wish to respond to the proposal, I have copies of the covering letter and supporting documents that I'll be pleased to send you. donandersen@bamboorods.ca



regards,



Don

[Don Andersen]

The best chance of derailing the proposal is the Development Permit stage. After talking to the Planning Officer, the Open House is of critical importance apparently. The Proponent has to record who attended and their concerns and has to submit these to the Planning Department. I urge you to attend the meeting and record your concerns. The open house is on June 23/14 from 4>8 pm at the Butte Community Hall which is located north of Caroline and within a mile or 2 of the Buck for Wildlife parking Lot on Stauffer Creek.

Letters in opposition to the proposal is also one way the public gets counted at this point. But be forewarned, multiple letters all addressing the same thing hold the weight of a single letter according to the Development Officer. Do not get discouraged with the letter writing though, address the issues as your see fit and forward them along.

However, if the proposal gets approved, the next stage is the appeals board where the public can make presentations. The appeals process must be started within 2 weeks of the Development Permit Approval.

Other Govt agencies get involved. ESRD Water Resources branch will deal with water issues. From my experience with the gravel pits at the mouth of the Medicine, the Alberta Govt bureaucrats duck and run and will not get in the way of any development.

The proposed pit is a reopening of a previous pit but with a significant difference. This pit will require dewatering as there will be a lot a water inflow from the aquifer the feeds Stauffer Creek. I was told the pit was abandoned due to water infiltration. The proposal shows a water retention pond that will hold the water pumped from the proposed new pit. How this will hold water is beyond me with the water table as close to the surface as it is.

The water table in this area is from 4>6' below the surface with a fine example provided by the County of Clearwater when they rebuilt the east/west road on the north side of the proposed development. The removal of dirt from the ditch created a spring flow along the north side of the road that flowed <>200 yards to Stauffer Creek. Brook Trout utilized this spring to spawn in for 2 years till the grasses etc. stopped their movement into the spring area.

The 1/4 section directly to the east is owned by a number of folks. The north side of Stauffer has two owners, the banks and shorelines on the stream are held under an ecological lease by the County of Clearwater, the south bank landowners are held jointly by the Alberta Conservation Association, Trout Unlimited Canada and Alberta Fish and Game Association.

I hope you find the info complete and useful.

If you have any questions, feel to send email.


regards,


Don

[Wild&Free]

Enbridge decision today. affecting over 4000 fish bearing creeks and rivers.

[Don Andersen]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

Enbridge decision today. affecting over 4000 fish bearing creeks and rivers.

Yupe - a clean derail but important enough for it's own subject line wouldn't think.

Don

[tight line]

Pipeline work is atleast temporary..a long term gravel pit, that needs alot of water to wash gravel is alot more intrusive. The area around stauffer is pretty sensitive, the creek goes from nothing to a full blown creek out of nowwhere, that area should definately be left alone...why gamble with the headwaters of a popular creek..

[Don Andersen]

Sorry to burst your bubble but there was a lot of Alberta that were "special" places but $'s rule. This is Alberta after all!

Don

[kevin1949]

I can't drive because of a cataract but if anyone is going to the open house from Edmonton I would like to tag along. tks.

[greylynx]

Thank you Don Anderson. For Nothing

[tight line]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Sorry to burst your bubble but there was a lot of Alberta that were "special" places but $'s rule. This is Alberta after all!

Don

Ya you dont have to tell me about money talks.... "#" Blackstone, Falls, clearwater, Ram, Burnt Timber,Raven,Red Deer, Battle, NSR...Want me to go on........lOL...sigh..i still Love Alberta Fishing...

[Lornce]

Thank you Don for everything you have done and tried to do for this gem of a fishery.

[Jeff Surtees]

Trout Unlimited Canada is opposed to this development permit being issued. We will do what we can to prevent it.

[lannie]

Originally Posted by tight line

Ya you dont have to tell me about money talks.... "#" Blackstone, Falls, clearwater, Ram, Burnt Timber,Raven,Red Deer, Battle, NSR...Want me to go on........lOL...sigh..i still Love Alberta Fishing...

In these examples you have given what was the damage done to the rivers?
Were they worse after? If some act is going to make the river worse then that is a problem but I dislike the idea of being "against " something just because its easy and someone else thinks it possibly could not work out.
Without the Glenmore dam and the discharge from the city of Calgary the Bow River down stream would be the same as the Bow river upstream. This is but one small example in many where we have disturbed the flow of water. How did the Browns get in Stauffer?
When we pounce on every move that industry makes it lessens the impact of the protest much the same way as someone calling wolf. Want to learn about it go to the meetings and decide but don't protest blindly.

[tight line]

Originally Posted by lannie

In these examples you have given what was the damage done to the rivers?
Were they worse after? If some act is going to make the river worse then that is a problem but I dislike the idea of being "against " something just because its easy and someone else thinks it possibly could not work out.
Without the Glenmore dam and the discharge from the city of Calgary the Bow River down stream would be the same as the Bow river upstream. This is but one small example in many where we have disturbed the flow of water. How did the Browns get in Stauffer?
When we pounce on every move that industry makes it lessens the impact of the protest much the same way as someone calling wolf. Want to learn about it go to the meetings and decide but don't protest blindly.

im not protesting blindly...lol. first off i work in the drilling industry, and have seen first hand how lease roads, pipelines, and leases have affected rivers and tributaries. its not just oilfield..logging is probably the biggest issue with disturbing rivers, due to washouts and ground disturbance.

The Blackstone in the late 90's early 2000's was being watched closely by F&W, they had a officer that stayed up there, walked the river, kept a close eye on things, good guy! there was always CO's up there..I was getting harassed by the CO's for cutting dead standing Lodgepoles..asked if i had a cutting permit...come on.. few years later they start drilling, built some fresh lease roads, then starteed logging it. and now the very spot i cut those trees down has been clear cut, not to mention the entire north slope along the Chungo creek road. go talk to the Chungo Creek Outfitters and see what they say about what benefit the Industry has done for the area... after they were asked to move from Chungo to the Blackstone so they could Drill and Log the Chungo, and that the Blackstone would be left alone..10 years later...suprise they want to log there now...

how about Falls Creek??? Close it below the Falls to Protect the Bull Trout(which i totally agree with! there is some Monsters in there). saying the quaders are ruining the area. 2 years later the gate is locked with no public access aloud. went for a rip on the Bike back there, and there is cut blocks as far as the eye can see...

i can keep going... Its a fact of life we need our resources, but there are certain areas that deserve to be left alone. what bugs me is that the Government complains how people out having fun are damaging the area, and then turn around and clear cut it... But the ELk need the Cut bLocks for green feed right??...lol

[tight line]

Originally Posted by lannie

In these examples you have given what was the damage done to the rivers?
Were they worse after? If some act is going to make the river worse then that is a problem but I dislike the idea of being "against " something just because its easy and someone else thinks it possibly could not work out.
Without the Glenmore dam and the discharge from the city of Calgary the Bow River down stream would be the same as the Bow river upstream. This is but one small example in many where we have disturbed the flow of water. How did the Browns get in Stauffer?
When we pounce on every move that industry makes it lessens the impact of the protest much the same way as someone calling wolf. Want to learn about it go to the meetings and decide but don't protest blindly.

but i will say the only change i have seen to the fishing is only more fishermen fishing areas that i used to have to hike 10km to get too that now have a lease road going right by them. I never said anything about it affecting the fishing did I?? I always seem to get rewarded when i go fishing!

[Swagger]

Don is exactly right. This pit is located just west of two main feeder springs on the Stauffer and would very likely intercept groundwater flowing over from the Clearwater river system.

WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG!

I have contacted both the county and Alberta environment and I get the feeling that it takes significant uproar to get the environmental consideration these areas deserve.

As indicated, the open house is June 23rd from 4 to 6 pm at the Butte Hall. The direction to the hall is as follows: about 6 miles north of the 4 way stop in Caroline to TWP Road 37-3. Go East 2 miles – the hall is on the north side of the road.

If you can’t make the open house, letter writing works. 120 letters effectively stopped pit development southwest of Sundre last year.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by greylynx

Thank you Don Anderson. For Nothing

Your class is showing kitty. Alberta's one true fought and paid for gem. Nearly unique in the west . Abundant fish, insect and wild life population. An area where joe alberta has put his stamp and mr anderson is giving voice to joe.... all you've got is scorn . Shame sir shame. At what cost would you sacrifice the blood sweat and tears of joe. The folk you claim as kin and in a time off need you heckle .
Bravo mr anderson I will have an e mail submited asap and will call in person .

[Lornce]

Written letters, emails and a couple of phone calls for me so far.

[Don Andersen]

Originally Posted by greylynx

Thank you Don Anderson. For Nothing

Hey, grey,

Ever now and then you prove what most people think of you.


Don

[Cal Rakach]

So this afternoon I took my vintage bike for a ride to have a look at the land and site.
This is a massive low land that connects the Clearwater River and the Red Deer River water sheds. This goes on for miles.
It has been feared (speculated) that if a big enough flood hits the area the Clearwater R could re-direct it's self into the Red Deer watershed. 2005 flood pushed that threshold.
As Don has stated the ground water is 4-6 ft below...now less with all the rain, there is water sitting everywhere.
So as Don had stated the gravel guy wants to de-water the pit into a holding pit, and Don has asked how will that land hold water?... it won't! it's all gravel ( thus the gravel pit) Hydraulic pressure will put it back into the ground water system. The whole area is littered with water channels heading east (Staufer Cr.)..or west back into the Clearwater
The exisitng pit is full to the brim with ground water...and is about 1/2 mile from the Clearwater River...
Don has told us that when the county put in the new road, brookies took up the new ditch until the grass grew in...that makes sence.
I dont know..some how I see opportunity for a fish rearing and fishing pond
if we can convince the land owners to dontate the land to ACA (or some arrangement) once the gravel extraction is done.
We will add another fishing opportnity close to urban fisherman, an ACA (and therefore AFGA & TU) goal.
Questions to be asked at the open house, see you there.

...and I still waiting for someone to explain FallCreek to me..that keeps coming up.
If OHV, trucks and everything else for the past 30-40-50 years...have been the "death warrent' for fish as N Waugh et al have stated..why is Fall Creek the premier bull trout stream that it is (ACA verified)...popular science says it cannot be.. OHV kills fish..
Just asking... (knowing the history, I know some old timers, D.A. is one of them and can verify)
Cal

[Don Andersen]

Cal,

A trade of the best spring creek in Albert for a stocked pond. Ya gotta be kidding.

Or maybe that explains the ranching effect on the fisheries in Alberta. Hell, we're always trading down.

And I expect the ACA will stand up and be counted?


Don

[MK2750]

Stauffer has been busy this year and with that more "no trespassing" signs as local heroes and red neck land owners secure their PRIVATE fishery.

Electric fences running parallel to the stream with not enough room to pass, perpendicular fencing running well into the stream, threats by fishermen/landowners and signage on public land.

Even the Fisheries officer I spoke to was unclear of the regulations. He stated that I needed permission to fish clearly within the high water zone but added that he too fished the stream and gained access at another bridge with out permission. A new sign "PRIVATE KEEP OUT" was put up the very next day, in the ditch, on public land exactly where he said it was OK to access???

Obviously you can not wade this stream without causing damage. Most land owners consider the bank their private land so you are trespassing and risking a court date if you fish this stream.

Private fisheries have no place in Alberta as far as flowing water goes IMO. When and until this issue is clearly defined I don't see a reason for "Joe Public" to involve themselves in what is clearly a Private matter.

[Cal Rakach]

Hi Don, I never said trading, I am suggesting having both.
we always talk about science based decision making...
well then...
What does the hydro-geologist say?
How much water is actually there? Which direction is it actually going?
From what i saw they are going to have one helluva time dewatering. Big pumps going 24-7-12. I would hate to be a neighbor.
I just lived that for the past 2 years as the town was de-watering the ditches for the water and sewer line installation on my side of the river. Streets dug up...lots of gravel, lots of water
Has the big hole in the ground that is already there impacted the springs up till now?
Are your observations of the declining fishing on the stream the result of the pit that is there now?
Just asking questions Don...
It was a lovely night for a bike ride and chose to be informed, went for look...not just beaking off behind a keyboard.
Cal

[Don Andersen]

Mk250,

There are sections of Stauffer creek that are not owned by the Crown. These sections are located along the whole length of the creek. Like other places in Alberta, private landowners do have the rights to control who is on their land.
From the Stauffer road to the headwater springs is nearly all public land. There is two sections near the Butte Community Hall that are privately held. Both of these rarely are fished plus another section above the B for W parking lot.
Downstream of the Stauffer road, there is little public land although some landowners do allow public access between the exclusion fencing, others require permission for access and others deny it.
What must be born in mind, there is lots public access.

Regards,


Don

[Don Andersen]

Cal,

I cannot attribute the previous pit activities to stream flow losses or fish reductions BUT there is a hung difference between the old and new pit. The old one removed gravel above the water table. This one will remove gravel 30' below the water table.
The pump required to dewater the pit is a 12" - which is very large.
Curiously, the proponent has not done an EIA and sees no reason to believe that the spring flows will be effected.
I will expect that the Dept. Of Environment will not be the least interested in the water flows and will not do a thing about the pit. And from my previous experience with gravel pit applications on the Red Deer with SRD and Dept of Fisheries and Oceans, I expect little.
I had another meeting to go to @ 6:00 so left at 5:30. I saw people from the ACA there but none from AF&G Assoc. or from Alberta Public Lands which are all owners in properties within 1/2 mile of the proposed pit.
Did they show up?

Don

[ksmitty]

Did anyone ever stop to think that maybe the landowners are restricting access because everytime they try to do something the self proclaimed saviors of the environment feel the need to stick their noses where they aren't welcome.

[Don Andersen]

Ksmitty,

The self proclaimed destroyers of the environment all all over the place. Be careful. They might just be an issue in your bailiwick.

Don