fly tying equipment list pt II

[billie]

The last one got bogged down in user/manufacturer preferences and the "list" was kind of lost.
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...=233207&page=2

Could I ask the knowledgeable folks to add their advice for components, accessories and materials and try to take specifics to different threads? I'm sure some specifics will be needed but let's try to stay on the list of items. Thanks to all for the start from the above thread.

Vice
Scissors
Whip finisher
What else?

How many and what kinds of bobbins should you have?
Must have tools? Nice to have tools?
Glues?
Common materials?
Do any of you save and use natural products? Animal hair, feathers?
Sources of materials? I have lots of copper wire. Lead? Would plain fine dental floss be handy?
Are dubbin twisters, hackle gauges etc useful or useless?

I looked at a starter kit (materials mostly) and thought that this might be a better way to get started.

Thanks a lot in advance guys and gals.

[vital shok]

Lots of great tiers on here and some good ones on the fly fish Calgary forum.You will use natural materials for most of your dry flies deer,elk,rabbit ect for your nymphs and such you will use both natural and synthetics and plastics as for glue there's many out there I use mostly loon uv for my nymphs and the odd crazy glue.For drys I use regular head cement than can be purchased from most stores with flie shops hope that gets this thread going for you.

[billie]

I expected collecting naturals is, well, natural . Guess Ill keep those raven feathers now they should make good muddlers.

Are there preferred feathers to look for? so many questions for a new hobby

Hockey game time, cheers

[Lornce]

I have an overview of fly tying on my blog at
http://lornce.wordpress.com/is-fly-tying-for-you/

[pikergolf]

I'm not a big fan of starter kits, unless your not sure your going to stick with it.
If you are sure your in, start with better tools, they can be resold if things don't work out. Pick about a dozen flies you want to tie, make an equipment and material list and start buying.

Look for the flies you want to tie on youtube, you'll find the equipment and materials, as well as some instruction.

You only really need one bobbin to start, and a dubbing tool is very useful if you spin your dubbing loops.

It can be a very satisfying hobby, and for some becomes an obsession. Great for whiling the winter away.

[billie]

Originally Posted by Lornce

I have an overview of fly tying on my blog at
http://lornce.wordpress.com/is-fly-tying-for-you/

TY Lornce, great read.

Looking for a decent vice now, missed the BD sale at TFH.

edit: vise*, I have enough vices already .

[Lornce]

Originally Posted by billie

TY Lornce, great read.

Looking for a decent vice now, missed the BD sale at TFH.

edit: vise*, I have enough vices already .

Glad to help

[Dak1138]

Too bad you missed the Fishin' Hole sale. Your budget went up 25%.
Here is a short list of "free" materials I use.
-Packing foam sheets
-anti static bags
-bungee cords(the inside 'strings' are sometimes the right size to use as legs)
-wire from relays, GFCI receptacles,door bell transformers, stranded wire... (As an electrician I sometimes rip these things apart for the wire, sometimes I get lucky and get an odd color like black or green, usually it is red or gold)

I have not used dental floss yet , I am sure it would work just fine.

[billie]

TFH offered me 10% which was fair for being late to the party but I figured I would wait and do a bit more research. I don't see any real difference in the $150 and up bracket but I wouldn't know. I like the cam and can appreciate the rotation. Is the base effective or do they still move around? It seems like a more flexible option over the clamp and I can always clamp the base myself.

Cat 5 or 6 cable would be a source of blue, orange, green, brown and white in small wire. The bungee and static bags are great ideas. The collecting sounds like pretty good entertainment by itself . Dental floss is my "go-to" sewing thread for just about anything. Half of my outdoor gear is held together with it in one way or another. Even did an old knife sheath once and its still going strong.

[Dak1138]

I just found some dental floss while cleaning the shop. Have no idea why there is floss in a box full of electrical equipment , but whatever.
Leaving the insulation on cat5 or cat6 wire is a little bulky, I did try it once .
I am assuming you are talking about vises. I prefer a base over a clamp myself. I have the Peak rotary on a base and it does not move at all, and even put my original vise on a cheap base and it works fine.

[Chief16]

The reason I got a vise with a base was mobility. You can take it places or even tie in vehicles on trips or hotels if you need to spin something up that you saw on the water that day

[slivers86]

Originally Posted by billie

TY Lornce, great read.

Looking for a decent vice now, missed the BD sale at TFH.

edit: vise*, I have enough vices already .

I got the peak rotary for christmas.. Love it!

[32-40win]

Definitely do prefer the ceramic lined tubes on a bobbin. I don`t whip finish, just tie some knots with the dubbing needle. A dubbing twister is another handy device, nice when doing peacock herl for sure, and to build a strong dubbed body. Be nice to still be able to get 30min epoxy, for streamer heads and some saltwater bodies like squid.

[billie]

Should all of your bobbins be ceramic, or is there any reason to not use them for certain threads?

I see forceps in tying pictures. Do they get used much?

Congrats the new peak Sliver.

[tallieho]

Originally Posted by 32-40win

Definitely do prefer the ceramic lined tubes on a bobbin. I don`t whip finish, just tie some knots with the dubbing needle. A dubbing twister is another handy device, nice when doing peacock herl for sure, and to build a strong dubbed body. Be nice to still be able to get 30min epoxy, for streamer heads and some saltwater bodies like squid.

You should try Loon Products UV Clear Fly finish thin...Very good stuff.

[Don Andersen]

Billie,

There is a lot of choices in bobbins. Definitly buy ceramic. Thread over time will wear out the stainless tips. $ 8>15
Get a good pair of scissors. Griffin or Dr. slick. $12>25
Need 1/2 hitch tool.
Need a whip finisher. Be aware, some are only designed for right handers. Mataralli style is best.

Don

[billie]

Tks Don. I wasn't sure if there was another reason for non-ceramic, size or type of material for example. No one has suggested how many bobbins. Do you ever use more than one at a time per fly? It would make sense to have at least 2 but is it just the hassle of changing out threads? I would expect to tie a bunch of one kind at a time so changing, if required, should only be between fly patterns. Its looking like the vise is the cheap part and the odds and ends will kill ya .

When I look at the whip finishers, it looks like they are ambidextrous (swivel type). How do you tell the difference between right and left?

Lornce mentioned the Fly Fishing Expo (Jan 23-25 at Spruce Meadows, for everyone who's interested) so I will definitely attend. I would like to watch some tying work to get a feel for the process. Granted, youtube helps but not really the same as being there.

Edit: Just looked up the "mattarelli" and that is the one I was focusing on.

[Dak1138]

2 or 3 bobbins is a a good place to start. I have a bunch of the Superfly ceramics and they work fine. I bought a Griffin bobbin on Boxing Day just to see if there was a difference and I would say The Griffen is slightly better. Maybe buy one Griffen and a couple Cheaper ones.
I have about 6 bobbins now, 4 of them are loaded with the thread I use most and the other two get changed often.
I don't think anyone mentioned hackle pliers yet. Don't cheap out on those.

[Don Andersen]

Billie,

I tied commercially and have about 10 bobbins loaded all the time. The swivel type of whip finisher is the one you want. The "Thompson" style was made for right handers.
Hackle pliers is another tool needed. The English style worked for me for 50 years. There are other types out there that also work.
Depending on your tying area, you might also invest in an attached trimmings basket for the vise. Keeps the area clean and your wife happy.

Don

[tallieho]

Originally Posted by billie

Tks Don. I wasn't sure if there was another reason for non-ceramic, size or type of material for example. No one has suggested how many bobbins. Do you ever use more than one at a time per fly? It would make sense to have at least 2 but is it just the hassle of changing out threads? I would expect to tie a bunch of one kind at a time so changing, if required, should only be between fly patterns. Its looking like the vise is the cheap part and the odds and ends will kill ya .

When I look at the whip finishers, it looks like they are ambidextrous (swivel type). How do you tell the difference between right and left?

Lornce mentioned the Fly Fishing Expo (Jan 23-25 at Spruce Meadows, for everyone who's interested) so I will definitely attend. I would like to watch some tying work to get a feel for the process. Granted, youtube helps but not really the same as being there.

Edit: Just looked up the "mattarelli" and that is the one I was focusing on.

Should you make it to the Expo.The Hook & Hackle club will be demo tying.There is also some area set aside to try out tying,vises/material etc. supplied.I would guess there will also be others demoing there skills.

[billie]

Excuse my naivety (thus some of the comments above) but I always thought one of the features of tying your own stuff involved collecting useful components where they arise. I would expect I can find some useful materials but how many use mostly commercially bought stuff? I guess it isn't as expensive as I thought it might be.

I've spent some time watching youtube and I will definitely attend the expo. Here is my list of must-haves to start. I expect to find a single fly to start with and tie enough to learn to do it right then move on to the next, focusing on the flies I want in my vest. Sooner or later, I should become proficient enough to create my own?

What's missing and is there anything I don't need?

Tools

• Vise $150
• 2 bobbins $38
• Materelli whip $5
• Dubbing twister (got one) 0
• Hackle pliers $10
• Scissors $26
• Dubbing needle (got one) 0
• Hair stacker $6
• Forceps (got two) 0

Materials

• Thread 3/0, 6/0, 8/0 x3 colors $15
• Head cement x2 $15
• Beads $10
• Hackle $10
• Hooks 10, 12, 14 $30
• Storage cases $40
• Lead wire (couldn't find a price)

Total $355 + GST

There will be more materials but I would buy for each fly accordingly. This isn't a hobby to save money is it .

Tks for the help, this has been fun so far .

[Dak1138]

Definitely not a money savng hobby unless you are a hunter or a trapper or know one.
I would say 85% of the material I use is purchased from a tackle shop.
You are going to be spending WAY more than $10 on hackle. Probably closer to $100 to get going. Cabelas sometimes sells a pack of grizzly and brown hacklefor around $19 (from Superfly) It is good for a few dozen dry flys and a reasonable price.
I just had a thought about dental floss, if it is 'flavoured' I imagine it may violate some bait bans.
And buy a lead substitute wire. There is a ban on lead in the national parks so it may be best to have all your fly lead free just in case.
You may want to have a pair of cheap nail clippers handy too. I use one to clip wire ribbing.

[billie]

"Minty fresh" doesn't sound like bait, but point taken . I should have considered that thread comes in many varieties (Kevlar) and the floss probably has no advantage. Rookie error. Geez, I'm not even a rookie yet, maybe a just a back-bencher .

The materials were just a kind of basic list. I expect to start with maybe a BH prince and a san juan, buy that stuff, get them to an acceptable level then move on. I'm sure the materials could get interesting but didn't expect a $100 buck hackle bill . I think I have the gist of most materials but the whole hackle thing isn't clear yet.

I'm looking forward to watching some live action at the expo.

[Don Andersen]

Billie,

You will need a bobbin threader. Several kinds out there. Cheapest is the floss threaders sold to fish dental floss under bridges. I build mine from guitar strings.

Don

[openfire]

I get my foam from Micheals. You get a lifetime supply for 8 bucks, or you can get 3 pieces for 4 bucks at a shop.

Fish tails has a great little package, good sisors, hair stacker, bobbin, threader and maybe something else for 20 bucks.

[32-40win]

One thing you'll likely notice real quick, everything for tying is 3-5.00/pkg, dirt cheap!!!!. Comes in a bunch of colours, usually 5-8 different ones.. There is dubbing, plain and sparkly, saddle feathers in various colours, different hooks for different purposes and styles, for chironomids and scuds and nymphs and emergers and drys and streamers and worms from 24 to 4/0, various types of ribbing in various colors, tinsels, beadheads, chenilles and mohairs in plain and sparkly and varigated, in different sizes and colours. There are thin and thick and coloured hairs. And then there are nymph skins and weird and wonderful materials that will make really cool and "lifelike" looking flies.
You may even look at the hair on your cat or dog, the neighbor's wabbit and the girlfriend's pet budgies or wuvboids could be missing parts shortly. Just don't try the dyes on them, to see what it looks like first, whilst still on the critter. Cut or pluck and RUN is the way to go.
They do take a really dim view of trying to pluck ostriches and peacocks at the zoo, they have really nasty little bugs they set upon you for that (excellent pattern to tie). Be careful of the seals, they bite.
Polar bears are cute and cuddly, until you brush them.
And don't forget to drop in at Rob's, but, go in the later AM, he shoots anything that moves in dawn's early light, around the pheasant pens.
Don't know what kind of salt he uses in his shotgun, harder than rocks though.

You have no idea what you're getting into.

[slivers86]

For them really tiny flies, a light with a magnifier on it can help if your eyes play tricks on ya!

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by billie

Excuse my naivety (thus some of the comments above) but I always thought one of the features of tying your own stuff involved collecting useful components where they arise. I would expect I can find some useful materials but how many use mostly commercially bought stuff? I guess it isn't as expensive as I thought it might be.

I've spent some time watching youtube and I will definitely attend the expo. Here is my list of must-haves to start. I expect to find a single fly to start with and tie enough to learn to do it right then move on to the next, focusing on the flies I want in my vest. Sooner or later, I should become proficient enough to create my own?

What's missing and is there anything I don't need?

Tools

• Vise $150
• 2 bobbins $38
• Materelli whip $5
• Dubbing twister (got one) 0
• Hackle pliers $10
• Scissors $26
• Dubbing needle (got one) 0
• Hair stacker $6
• Forceps (got two) 0

Materials

• Thread 3/0, 6/0, 8/0 x3 colors $15
• Head cement x2 $15
  
• Beads $10
• Hackle $10
• Hooks 10, 12, 14 $30
• Storage cases $40
• Lead wire (couldn't find a price)

Total $355 + GST

There will be more materials but I would buy for each fly accordingly. This isn't a hobby to save money is it .

Tks for the help, this has been fun so far .

I was nodding along in agreement until the $$ for beads...

I probably have $300 in beads, JUST BEADS! And I could easily find a use for $300 more.

Feathers.... oh, where to start? Yes, each fly pattern for the first year or two will require buying most of the required materials. Saddle hackle for wets can be cheap, however creating satisfactory dry flies will require a significant investment in feathers my friend.


What do you mean by "storage cases"? For hooks and beads? Or fly boxes?

If you think of fly tying as a long term investment, like reloading, it makes financial sense. Especially when retailers are charging $2-$12 per fly!

[Pudelpointer]

Continued...

Thread: I like Uni threads of various weights (thickness), as well as their floss for steelhead/salmon flies. I use 6/0 for most flies, unless tying <14 or need to build a really big head.

Mono-cord used to be a popular thread, but I only really use it for spinning deer hair these days.

Quality of natural materials varies so widely that it is hard to give meaningful advice. You will learn quickly what works for you, and what doesn't. I utilize a lot of fur/hair/feathers that I collect / hunt myself. However, once you start tying (unless commercially) you will realize that one cannot realistically utilize 18sq/ft of elk hair in their lifetime... Or more than one or two pheasant rump patches per year, or tail centre feathers.

Can't remember what you wrote about fly patterns: prince nymph and... Pick a few and tie them until you get the hang of your tools and techniques. Pay attention to proportions; it will make a big difference in how well or poorly a fly will fish.

If you are looking for some good tutelage, check out Davey McPhail videos on YouTube. He has some of the best tying videos available..... and they are FREE!


Oh, and add another zero to your hook budget.

[chucky]

that list is looking good to me, that should get you started.
(I would add a couple of dubbing -hare's, black and a couple of other colours- important for a lot of nymphs and pretty cheap)

Of course you can spend thousands more, but start with these and expand as and when needed. No need to buy 100s of hooks and beads and capes just yet! time will come soon enough... just get going, you'll expand quickly.

As everyone said, start with a few patterns (a few nymphs, a couple streamers, a few dries) and see how it goes. And Davie McPhail is a great watch, I learned a lot from his videos.

Good luck with a new addiction and post your results!