Quebec - gun registry

[Newf]

If anybody is interested:http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...ta-quebec.html

looks like quebec gets its data....

[elkhunter11]

Did you expect anything different from a Quebec judge? The government needs to take this to the Supreme Court, before the antis in the other provinces try the same nonsense..

[Hogie135]

its useless data anyways. makes no difference to anyone if they get to keep it.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by Hogie135

its useless data anyways. makes no difference to anyone if they get to keep it.

Yes, but however outdated it may be, that isn't the point. The point is that the feds should have the kahones to tell Keebec to go pound sand, tarsand that is!

[elkhunter11]

its useless data anyways. makes no difference to anyone if they get to keep it.

If Quebec is allowed to keep the registry, other provinces that aren't firearm friendly, may do the same, using the Quebec court decision as a precedent. If that happens, it is much more likely that a new federal government would re-implement the registry across Canada.The registry needs to be completely eliminated in all of Canada,as soon as possible.

[Hogie135]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If Quebec is allowed to keep the registry, other provinces that aren't firearm friendly, may do the same, using the Quebec court decision as a precedent. If that happens, it is much more likely that a new federal government would re-implement the registry across Canada.The registry needs to be completely eliminated in all of Canada,as soon as possible.

If a new government gets in who wants the registry back, they'll do it anyways. This Quebec decision won't affect that.

[Yéil]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If Quebec is allowed to keep the registry, other provinces that aren't firearm friendly, may do the same, using the Quebec court decision as a precedent. If that happens, it is much more likely that a new federal government would re-implement the registry across Canada.The registry needs to be completely eliminated in all of Canada,as soon as possible.

A lower court decision will not bind the higher courts they can only bind courts of the same level and subordinate courts. This matter is heading to the appellate level courts... that's where it'll start to bind the lower courts. The feds may pre-empt any appellate level court by requesting a reference case from the SCC. In any event, it ain't over until the skinny, blindfolded chick holding the sword sings - we have years of appeals ahead of us.

All Quebec has right now is a lower court judgement that is on it's way to an appellate level court. Precedent doesn't usually occur until a superior level court renders a decision that will bind the lower courts.

[igorot]

Somebody has to complain with the privacy commissioner. Those information were voluntarily given for the purpose of the registry. Since the purpose is gone and so is the information. It is against the privacy law to get any information other than what is intended for.

[270WIN]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Did you expect anything different from a Quebec judge? The government needs to take this to the Supreme Court, before the antis in the other provinces try the same nonsense..

But has the data for all the other provinces not been destroyed? We've certainly been led to believe that it has. I hope they've been telling us the truth.

[Yéil]

Toronto's bullet ban didn't fly. http://www.globaltoronto.com/bullet+...977/story.html

There is hope that sense and sensibility will prevail.

[TomCanuck]

Originally Posted by igorot

Somebody has to complain with the privacy commissioner. Those information were voluntarily given for the purpose of the registry. Since the purpose is gone and so is the information. It is against the privacy law to get any information other than what is intended for.

Unfortunately the privacy commissioner is a Liberal appointee.

[pattycr125]

i wont be buying from anyone in quebec, store or person.

[wjt]

Once a firearm purchased in Quebec crosses the border into Canada, you can resell it with no paper trail. Maybe we(Canadains), should liberate all the firearms from them(Quebec) into the "freer world".

Walt

[270WIN]

So we have a p*ssant, low level court in Quebec (a "province" which has never signed the Constitution) telling the Government of Canada that the Quebec data can't be destroyed because it would be unconstitutional to do so and the Government of Canada being duty bound to respect the decision of that court.
Is there anyone else on here who finds that more than just slightly absurd?

[densa44]

This is politics, it has nothing to do with guns. Do you think Steven, PM for life will take Quebec to court or engage in a public fight with a separatist government in Quebec city over the LGR?

Following on from that, how much more political hay can be made from supporting this LGR thing? They already have the seats in the west, the electoral threat is on the left, does Steve want to move his party farther right or to try to slide a bit to the left?

You guys can figure this out.

[Ice Fishing Maniac]

Quebec's law is different than the rest of Canada. Cant remember the term, but as mentioned, the Feds should have the kahunas to say NO !!

[TomCanuck]

Originally Posted by densa44

This is politics, it has nothing to do with guns. Do you think Steven, PM for life will take Quebec to court or engage in a public fight with a separatist government in Quebec city over the LGR?

Following on from that, how much more political hay can be made from supporting this LGR thing? They already have the seats in the west, the electoral threat is on the left, does Steve want to move his party farther right or to try to slide a bit to the left?

You guys can figure this out.

Time will tell, with a minority PQ gov. in QC, and the problems such a precident could cause, the government may very well pull the trigger and fight this... and most likely win on appeal. The politics of guns is in my view very important, as I am passionate about hunting, shooting and property rights as well.

[White Wolf]

I would say that anyone who has family or trusted friends whom own non-restricted firearms should offer to buy the firearms for say $1 and then permanently "lend" them back to their family member or friend. This is completely legal and will completely negate the use of a "provincial registry". The firearms will be erased from a registry as soon as they are transferred to someone who is not a Quebec resident and the registry does not need to be informed when a firearm is borrowed.

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by 270WIN

But has the data for all the other provinces not been destroyed? We've certainly been led to believe that it has. I hope they've been telling us the truth.

x2

Does anybody know where this is at? I know the GRCs seemed to be dragging their heels, but maybe it's been completed by now?

[Gunner22a]

They can keep their data for all I care, just not mine. I don't live there, hunt there or shop there and NEVER will.

[TomCanuck]

It wold seem to me, if this ruling is allowed to stand, then the privacy act is basically useless.

The idea that information given to one agency, can be handed over to another agency without the express permission of those who gave it, is a very serious matter. While it may be used for the same purpose, it very well could be used for other purposes.

A very bad precident to set. One that should not be allowed to stand.

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by Gunner22a

They can keep their data for all I care, just not mine.

I agree completely. With their government corruption it is the last province I would trust my personal data to.

[greylynx]

And to think that Alberta is funding this mess through it's transfer payments.

[270WIN]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

x2

Does anybody know where this is at? I know the GRCs seemed to be dragging their heels, but maybe it's been completed by now?

I just got done sending an email to Vic Toews encouraging him to proceed with an appeal of the Quebec decision.
I also asked him to confirm that the destruction of the registry data for all jurisdictions other than Quebec is now complete. It will be interesting to see whether I get a reply and, if so, what it says. I'm not really holding my breath on this but we'll see.
I'll keep you posted.

[Rod1960]

Originally Posted by 270WIN

I just got done sending an email to Vic Toews encouraging him to proceed with an appeal of the Quebec decision.
I also asked him to confirm that the destruction of the registry data for all jurisdictions other than Quebec is now complete. It will be interesting to see whether I get a reply and, if so, what it says. I'm not really holding my breath on this but we'll see.
I'll keep you posted.

Long-gun registry dismantling is 'well underway'

Work on the destruction of records in the federal long-gun registry is "well underway," but an Ontario lawyer trying to get an injunction to stop it has been told no data will be erased until early October.

An injunction has already been granted in Quebec and records in the registry pertaining to residents from that province have been separated from the rest of the RCMP-managed database.

The RCMP told CBC News that it is a lengthy and complicated process to dismantle the database and that work on destroying the records began not long after Parliament passed Bill C-19 in April. The controversial bill ended the requirement to register non-restricted firearms (rifles, shotguns and other long guns that fall under the classification).

It also ordered that the information in the existing database be erased. Restricted and prohibited firearms still need to be registered and a licence is still required to own a firearm.

The RCMP manages the Canadian Firearms Registry and starting on May 20, the registration records were no longer available through its online database. That means police can no longer check the registry.

Police agencies that argued in favour of keeping the registry said it was accessed thousands of times a day and that it was an important investigative tool that helped trace guns to their owners.

Shutting down the registry is a multi-step process, according to the RCMP.

"It is a complex IT project involving the destruction of a large amount of data that is part of an integrated database, and will take some time to complete," a spokeswoman for the Canadian Firearms Registry said in an email.

The Quebec government launched a legal challenge almost immediately after Bill C-19 was passed and it successfully won an injunction to protect the data before it was destroyed. As a result of the Quebec Superior Court ruling, Quebec residents still have to register their non-restricted firearms with the RCMP.

Existing records for Quebec gun owners have been separated out from the rest of the database and are safe from destruction for now. They are also still accessible through the online database.

Record destruction expected in October

"The court order is currently in effect until further notice," Julie Gagnon said in the email. As for the rest of the registry, she said: "The process leading to the destruction of non-restricted firearms registration records is well underway."

The process is underway, but according to lawyer Shaun O'Brien, no actual records have yet been destoyed.

O'Brien is acting on behalf of the Barbra Schlifer Commemorative Clinic in Toronto, a place that helps women who are victims of domestic violence. The clinic, supported in its case by the City of Toronto, has made the application for an injunction to protect the gun registry data. The case is scheduled for a hearing Sept.13 in Toronto.

"On cross-examination and under oath, the government's representative advised us that the records would not be deleted until starting the first weekend of October," O'Brien told CBC News on Friday.

She said that while police can no longer look at the database, chief firearms officers can still access it. Provincial and territorial firearms officers are responsible for licencing and other administrative duties.

The records are still in the database and the IT infrastructure to support it remains intact, according to O'Brien.

"The judge hearing the injunction is well aware of the date in October when destruction of data would commence and all parties have ensured that our injunction is being heard before then," said O'Brien, adding that a quick decision is also expected from the judge.

On Thursday, the Canadian Shooting Sports Association kicked off a campaign that it says is in response to the legal challenges. The group is encouraging owners of non-restricted firearms to swap and sell their guns to thwart the injunction efforts and ensure that any information left in the database is "garbage."

The anti-registry group said the registry was never useful and that it was an added burden for law-abiding gun owners.

There are an estimated 7.8 million firearms registered and of those, about 90 per cent are non-restricted firearms.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stor...struction.html

So, who do you believe?

[270WIN]

Thanks for posting that, Rod.
I've always been a bit skeptical about whether the data destruction is in fact happening and, from what you have posted, it appears my skepticism is justified.
If they could separate the Quebec data from the rest of the country, it's pretty hard to understand why it would take until October to complete the destruction process.
I'm going to be pretty disappointed in our government if it turns out we've been screwed around on this.

[TomCanuck]

Originally Posted by 270WIN

Thanks for posting that, Rod.
I've always been a bit skeptical about whether the data destruction is in fact happening and, from what you have posted, it appears my skepticism is justified.
If they could separate the Quebec data from the rest of the country, it's pretty hard to understand why it would take until October to complete the destruction process.
I'm going to be pretty disappointed in our government if it turns out we've been screwed around on this.

Regardless of the existence of the records in a DB, they are no longer of any legal value. That you once owned a firearm, has no legal weight. They must all be considered out of date.

[Pincherguy]

Originally Posted by Hogie135

If a new government gets in who wants the registry back, they'll do it anyways. This Quebec decision won't affect that.

That mistake cost us billions of dollars and it wasn't working. I don't think any party would even attempt it again except for the bloc, but chances of them forming a majority in Canada is slim to none.

[Matt L.]

Seems to me it wouldn't be too hard to erase the info, just shoot the hard drives. The irony would be sweet.

[270WIN]

Originally Posted by Pincherguy

That mistake cost us billions of dollars and it wasn't working. I don't think any party would even attempt it again except for the bloc, but chances of them forming a majority in Canada is slim to none.

Common sense would say you are correct, Pincherguy, but apparently Mulcair said he would bring it back if he got the chance.

"Common sense" and "Mulcair" in the same sentence? I can't believe I said that. I think that's what is callled an oxymoron isn't it?