living on a trap line

thunderheart · #1 10-18-2011, 07:55 AM

hope this is in the right place ...

is it legal in Alberta to live year round on your trap line?

thanks

jim summit · #2 10-18-2011, 01:24 PM

Trapping only.

RockyMountainMusic · #3 10-18-2011, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderheart

hope this is in the right place ...

is it legal in Alberta to live year round on your trap line?

thanks

Apparently you can do whatever you want! Rules mean nothing without enforcement!

thunderheart · #4 10-18-2011, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockyMountainMusic

Apparently you can do whatever you want! Rules mean nothing without enforcement!

yep isnt that the truth ... laws only apply to those afraid if them

thanks .. same as BC

outwalking · #5 10-18-2011, 05:25 PM

I'd do a little research; my dad was telling me a few weeks ago how you're only allowed to keep so much firewood at your trapper cabin so as to discourage year-round use. He said something about other "rules" as well.

I never checked out what he said, and he might be full of it, but I just thought I'd pass along what I heard

IHUNT · #6 10-18-2011, 06:08 PM

I no there is a few trappers that still live on there traplines year round. Afriend of mine lives on the trapline with his wife and 3 kids year round the school bus even picks his kids from there cabin.

tullfan · #7 10-18-2011, 07:14 PM

So if someone wanted a cheap cottage, and good hunting all you have to do is get a trapping license and a line?
Correct?
You must have to meet certain quotas, and can your cabin be a cottage side or are there building size guidelines?

Tullfan

sourdough doug · #8 10-18-2011, 07:50 PM

Try it and see what happens and in the mean time be prepared to have a lot more rules and regulations initiated...The regs state someplace that you can spend approx 1/2 a year at your cabin, trapping and line maintenance.. Wood pile ?? must be something else in the (wood) smoke..

There are regs on line if you care to find out for yourself rather than get so many varying opinions..

RockyMountainMusic · #9 10-19-2011, 07:19 AM

[QUOTE=tullfan;1122964]So if someone wanted a cheap cottage, and good hunting all you have to do is get a trapping license and a line?
Correct?
Yup!

You must have to meet certain quotas,
Sure that's why the are lines not trapped on for 10 years+ at a time

and can your cabin be a cottage side or are there building size guidelines?

sourdough is correct there are rules to the traplines, cabin size.......... but no enforcement. They are starting on the cabin issues but could care less if a line is not actually being trapped. Same as everything else in this pathetic world its all about the $$$$$$$

ACKLEY ABE · #10 10-19-2011, 07:50 AM

Sort of gets my goat, but not far from Whitecourt there are two nice cabins on a trapline that ppl form Edmonton use as there own personal resort. They have made some kinda deal with a guy in Whitecourt re the trapping.

Theres a ton of people that would love to have this line (30 minutes from Whitecourt) and be willing to work it.

I guess that's what you guys are referring to when you bring up enforcement.

DoUCWhatIC · #11 10-20-2011, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACKLEY ABE

Sort of gets my goat, but not far from Whitecourt there are two nice cabins on a trapline that ppl form Edmonton use as there own personal resort. They have made some kinda deal with a guy in Whitecourt re the trapping.

Theres a ton of people that would love to have this line (30 minutes from Whitecourt) and be willing to work it.

I guess that's what you guys are referring to when you bring up enforcement.

Under the current rules if the Senior Holder claims that these cabins are part of the RFMA assests there is nothing the government can do. These "rules" are being reviewed (or have been in the review process for several years now). I had high hopes that the government would finally quit ignoring trappers but I heard recently that the new "rules" are just as soft as the Trapline Cabin Policy of old!

Incidently, it is SRD Public Lands Division that manages (or more appropriately, mismanages) trapline cabins.

It is Fish & Wildlife that is suppose to manage the fur resources, including the RFMA holders. Sadly, while there is will amongst field staff to deal with trapping issues there is absolutely no political (nor management) will to deal with problems.

So that leaves the industry in the hands of the trappers themselves. These issues depend on the integrity of RFMA holders. Unfortunatley, it seems that in the situation you describe there is no integrity. SAD! And we all know that there are many situations just like this one across Alberta.

KegRiver · #12 10-20-2011, 06:34 PM

I am a registered trapper.

No you can not live on your trapline year round, legally. I do know a fellow who does so, but it is questionable if it is against the law in his case or not.
He has treaty rights and such rights may trump trapline legislation.

Then again most people exceed the speed limit by considerable amounts.
It's sort of hypocritical to say I should be able to break the law but you shouldn't.

I don't know anyone else that lives on their trapline or who wants to.
Perhaps down closer to Edmonton or Calgary it would be an issue.
Here it is not practical, or desirable, to most people.

A far bigger problem is outfitters wanting traplines as an excuse to build hunting lodges. OR as private hunting reserves. Here, maybe more so then anywhere else besides the mountains, this is a major problem and a major annoyance for most trappers.

crabtree · #13 10-20-2011, 08:55 PM

Thunderheart

I'm disapointed in the content of some of the replies you got on your inquiry.
The main concern seems to be 'what can I get away with' , with no concern if it is leagal or not.
Check out the regulations, they are being re-written, but they are still there, also amount of time you can spend there 'looking after your RFMA'.
Also are you inquiring about Alberta or B.C. ? Provinces are all different.

northerntrapper · #14 10-21-2011, 06:51 AM

I guess there may be some 'hunting lodges' out there, but I don't know of any around this area (Slave Lake). For the most part, trappers observe the regs in our area, although I've heard of some that are oversized. Speaking for myself, the cabin is small with an outhouse out the back. If I lost it to a forest fire, it wouldn't devastate me.
It sounds to me like some folks assume all trappers are enjoying the private mansions in the bush, and living there full time. I beg to differ in most instances, but abuse does happen in some cases, as it does with driving, quadding, and just about anything humans do.

RockyMountainMusic · #15 10-21-2011, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northerntrapper

I guess there may be some 'hunting lodges' out there, but I don't know of any around this area (Slave Lake). For the most part, trappers observe the regs in our area, although I've heard of some that are oversized. Speaking for myself, the cabin is small with an outhouse out the back. If I lost it to a forest fire, it wouldn't devastate me.
It sounds to me like some folks assume all trappers are enjoying the private mansions in the bush, and living there full time. I beg to differ in most instances, but abuse does happen in some cases, as it does with driving, quadding, and just about anything humans do.

You are right some people abusing doesnt mean everyone is. I have heard of the outfitter problem though i dont think it is too much of an issue in my area either but i do know of lots of issues. What burns me is traplines that are allowed to go untrapped and then issued to that person again. I think if it goes untrapped it should be given/sold to someone who will trap it. i know people who have lines here and live 10 hrs away which is fine but if you are onle spending a couple days a year trapping just a couple things well that's not being managed properly and there are people who would love to put the time and effort into it. I know of lines gone over 10 years without being trapped and i know many others who know of the same thing. That is totally rediculous if they dont want to trap then at very least they should be forced to have a junior trap it for them. Anyway that is my rant lucky enough for me i will be trapping this season.

KegRiver · #16 10-21-2011, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockyMountainMusic

What burns me is traplines that are allowed to go untrapped and then issued to that person again. I think if it goes untrapped it should be given/sold to someone who will trap it.

And again, that may be true in a few cases, but for most, such as my line, the only folks interested are the outfitters, the privat hunting lodge types and the wanna bees.

There is NO money in trapping these days, if there was, real trappers would be trapping their lines.
In this area, I know of only two line holders who are trapping. Ten years ago 90% of those same guys were trapping.

I don't know their stories well enough to comment on their motives but I know that in my case the cost of fuel, opening up and maintaining trails, cost of equipment ext are greater then any potential income from trapping.
I still trap, to remove problem animals, and to train those who WANT to learn. But for all intents and purposes I have not trapped my line in about 6 years. In that time two people have asked about acquiring my line.
Both of them were outfitters.

No doubt if I advertised it for sale or simply let it go vacant someone would take it. Most likely an outfitter, or someone who thinks they want to trap.
Either way, a year from now it would still not be trapped.
BECAUSE THERE IS NO MONEY IN TRAPPING.
Maybe a real good line would return enough for one in ten applicants. Mine would not. It is not and never was a high production line.

On the best years, fifty marten, thirty beaver, and a dozen or so Fisher was the best we, or any previous trapper did on that line.
One could pick up a couple hundred squirrels, 20 or 30 Weasle, maybe half a dozen Mink and a dozen Rats, maybe ten or so Fox and Coyote, if the trapped hard and for the whole season.

Do the math. Marten at $50.00 average, Beaver at $20.00 average, Fisher at $75.00 and maybe $500,00 for the rest, in total.
What you wind up with is $3,000.00 to $4,000.00 for four months work. Less expenses. If you can take home $1,000.00 from that you did very well.

huntslots · #17 10-21-2011, 08:22 AM

Sounds like farming economics..LOL..

I believe alot of trapping especially on the Eastern Slopes lines has turned into a form of predator control. (wolves etc.) It's about lifestyle.

sourdough doug · #18 10-21-2011, 08:27 AM

You are so right on, Keg. If I were to take off 2 dozen martin off my line, then I would be over trapping it, 6 fisher would be the same.. Beaver are the only thing in numbers and we know what the return is on those beasties. But for the most part, those that want these lines, would like them to be close by. So would I. Having only a weekend to attend to a line, does not do it justice and may just as well remain vacvant. I believe that most of the vacant lines are also remote lines and unless someone in the area pick them up or are absorbed by an adjoining line, that' the way it is.

This is kind of getting away from the OP, but that is the way things digress, espescially on a topic like this -- it is not always black and white or carved in stone as some peoples worlds are....

KegRiver · #19 10-21-2011, 09:47 AM

There are a whole lot of generalizations and assumptions made on this topic.

Yes some folks use traplines as private hunting preserves. Yes some folks use trapline cabins as hunting lodges. In some place it may even be a significant number of people or traplines involved. In other areas it is a rarity.

And more often then not, the abuser is not a real trapper at all, but rather someone claiming to be a trapper. Perhaps with a little experience to back up his claim.

Taking lines from trappers who aren't trapping, now, will not solve the problem, if anything it will compound the problem.

Sure some who want to trap will take over such lines, and quickly learn why the experienced guys aren't trapping. Other lines will be taken over by the very people who are creating the problem.

And those lines abandoned or sold by the newcomers will very likely wind up in the hands of the abusers, eventually.

What most who complain about this seem to miss is that #1 the guys abusing the system are the type that will lie to get what they want.
If claiming they want to trap is what it takes, that is what they will do.

#2 There is a good reason why the experienced trappers aren't trapping.

#3 Even when most traplines were being trapped, these things happened.

#4 Most of the folks who do abuse the system, will simply switch methods if this door is closed.

For example. I know at least one outfitter, or rather, former outfitter who built hunting lodges where he hunted, even though he had no trapline there, or anywhere else for that matter.

Taking someone's line away from them will do nothing to stop or even slow down such individuals. If anything it will assist them.

jim summit · #20 10-21-2011, 05:23 PM

How many townships is your line if you take about 50 marten per year?

sourdough doug · #21 10-21-2011, 10:56 PM

Hello Jim, I know your question was to Keg but in most cases the quantity of any fur taken on any line is primarily based on the capacity of the line to support a specific species. As far as martin is concerned, old growth forest and the related food source is primary although they are adaptable and many take martin in grassy areas as well, providing there is close cover..

OK Keg, now it's your turn..

thunderheart · #22 10-22-2011, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crabtree

Thunderheart

Also are you inquiring about Alberta or B.C. ? Provinces are all different.

hi .. looking at Alberta

braggadoe · #23 10-24-2011, 07:31 AM

don't mean to completely high jack this thread, but i'm sorry to hear that keg feels there is no money in trapping. it's true that some lines aren't as produtive as others. but there are people that do well trapping. just depends where your trapping, and then throw in ADC work and guys are doing very well.

i have the records from my line for the last 30 years and it has consistanly produced over 100 marten a season. averaged high 60's$ last season.

i'm aware of a couple of other guys that are able to do 200+ in 6 weeks(the nafa guy in prince goerge, you may know of him?) recieves and traps, does very well.

as for the amount of work and time spent yes it's alot but i don't put a doller value on that, it's fun for me and my little family, i love that part of it and couldn't put a doller figure on it. great way to spend summer break.

the line is not square or flat, but useing google earth it works out to about just under 10 townships near as i can figure.

as for the abuse of the system, i've got to say that to C.O's are out often. maybe it's just me.

can't wait to get back out there!

finally got the pic posting down!

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pickrel pat · #24 10-24-2011, 07:55 AM

love those pics

RockyMountainMusic · #25 10-24-2011, 08:46 AM

[ There is NO money in trapping these days, if there was, real trappers would be trapping their lines.
In this area, I know of only two line holders who are trapping. Ten years ago 90% of those same guys were trapping.

I totally understand what you are saying in that most can not make a living on trapping, but if there are so called real trappers then it should not be about the money. You cant do anything in this world for free, go on vacation well you cant do that it costs money, you better not hunt or fish or do darn near anything because its going to cost you. I am not going trapping to see how much i can make, i'm going because its burning inside me just to get out and have the chance to do it. I have close to $20,000 into trapping this year alone am i ever going to see that with the furs i catch no way but i am sure going to be doing it.I know you guys seen a day when you actually profited from it and i would like for it to be the same too but it if your not going to trap it cause you cant get rich there are people like me who will. Now having said that i cant afford to sell my first born to buy a line to make no money and spend so much on a chance you may lose your investment. That is probably why no one but outfitters has talked to you about it i dont know but i havnt seen a line i could afford yet. Its too bad it has gotten this way but who know maybe everyone will start wearing fur again and the future may be bright after all??

RockyMountainMusic · #26 10-24-2011, 08:48 AM

Awsome pics by the way, feel free to share more. I love looking at trapping pics!

pickrel pat · #27 10-24-2011, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockyMountainMusic

Awsome pics by the way, feel free to share more. I love looking at trapping pics!

me too!

dugh · #28 10-24-2011, 12:45 PM

Great photos braggadoe. Good to see the little one on the line too.
Also,
I would think that "real trappers" trap their line every year regardless of fur prices.
Doug

mudbug · #29 10-24-2011, 08:06 PM

Great pictures, thanks for sharing them

DairyMan7 · #30 10-28-2011, 12:00 AM

Ok before I comment I don't want to upset anyone on this thread, I believe trapping to be "THE BEST" outdoor activity.

Its a combination of mathematics, stats, science, biology and an Art form

and for everyone that still trap, it's because its who we are and i'm sorry but its in our blood.

Trapping in general is hard work, nowadays nobody likes that

There is money in trapping.......but in reference to registered traplines if I'm asked is there money...I would say "DEPENDS"

Depends why you do it, depends what you get out of it, if you do the math and break down time spent versus your return i would say there is no money in trapping.
But if you look at quality of time spent while trapping I would say Trapping is the richest job out there.

Now to the nitty gritty, If one just trapped here in Alberta 365 days a year. Between 6 months on a registered line and 6 months with nuisance wildlife, I think one could make a great living.

I guess its in the eye of the beholder. But to answer the question about Alberta registered trap lines....I think they are a joke.
I'm originally from Ontario and if you have a registered line in Ontario and you don't trap your quota or 75%(i think its 75% i could be wrong) of your quota for 3-5 years consistantly..you automatically lose your line....I think this should be done here in Alberta. I hope everyone here agrees with me.

I was just talking to a fish/wildlife cop tonight and he agreed with me, its a joke, too many CAlgarians/edmontonians have trap lines that don't actually trap and the line is exactly what you guys say, a cheap and legal way to own a cabin in the woods with no one around for miles.
I hope the province of AB changes this but it comes down to some one up north that has a trapline is probably a politician or friends with a polititian and thats how he gets his cheap cabin and property.

Sorry to vent at the end but I agree with most people on this thread, something has to change in that respect...but as for trapping, yes you can make a living at it and make good money. My mentor and teacher just grossed over a million dollars last year and thats is just nuisance wildlife control.