Go Back   Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > Guns & Ammo Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-17-2017, 11:20 AM
Rock&Ice Rock&Ice is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Canmore
Posts: 33
Default A Rookie Reloader's Experience

This is long.

If you are considering starting to reload, hopefully my experience helps you with that process or inspires you to start learning on your own. I tried to document as much as I could. I figured out it has been 27 years since I last reloaded in my dad’s dining room. We used to joke that my father ran a reloading sweat shop with me and my brother when we were kids but I must admit a lot of those skills I developed back then have been purged over the years. The only thing I remembered was that you need to be accurate and consistent.
I seriously started researching presses and kits in about December. I picked up the RCBS Rockchucker kit from Dante Sports in Quebec during a boxing week sale. Even with shipping it was way cheaper than anything else I could find and the guys there were great to deal with. From all of my research the RCBS got great reviews and a number of people recommended it to me. I think we had a Lee set growing up.
Between being really busy and away for a bit I never even unpacked the kit until the end of February. In the interim I watched HOURS of you tube videos and read countless reloading blogs. The Nosler reloading Manual was helpful but good on you if you can just read that and start reloading. I normally like to get training from professionals before I do something like this but there are no courses that I could find (hint, hint to anyone with the quals/creds to run one as I would probably even still sign up) so I had to self teach. A buddy did give me an hour overview on his set up which allowed me to visualize and take some of my own notes.
I have a healthy fear of reloading so I really did my homework. I watched videos on every piece of reloading equipment and specifically researched 30-06 loading which was going to be my first re-load. I even searched terms such as reloading errors, reloading over pressure and reloading accidents to try to learn from other’s mistakes. I will say its awesome that people take the time to record and publish videos on their set ups. That’s part of the reason I wanted to share my experience and hopefully pay it forward a bit. Some of the videos though passed over what I considered important information and I particularly appreciated the videos that guys go into very detailed descriptions of what they were doing and why. That’s when I started getting way more specific in my search terms for blogs and videos. I knew enough about reloading to know what was important but when I finally started playing around with the kit I realized I was missing some tidbits of information.
I decided my wife wouldn’t be that excited about a room in our house or a section of the work bench in the garage being dedicated to my new found hobby so I set up my Workhorse Work bench as a ‘mobile’ bench (something I could take to a friends or easily set up and take down in the garage). In general the kit was easy to assemble (although I did have ‘parts’ left over and didn’t use everything it came with yet).
The RCBS kit is fairly comprehensive but I decided to buy the powder stand and a digital caliper. I then bought a tumbler for the brass and decided on corn media. I can’t quite remember what we did when we were kids but I am absolutely certain we never had anything to clean the brass except for some brasso (which I also used to polish my brass after a couple hours in the tumbler).
My gun shoots the Nosler 165 Accubonds the best so I got 165 grain bullets. One of the blogs I read said to measure everything, so I did. I weighed every bullet before I seated it and the weight ranged from 164.8 to 165.5 gr. I tried to research if this was normal or not but couldn’t find any information (any experienced reloaders can chime in here with their comments). I found the variation to be quite a bit more than what I was expecting but maybe I was just being paranoid and don’t have an appreciation for casting. I decided to group them into similar weight categories and use them that way.
The Nosler reloading manual says IMR 4350 is the most accurate for the 165 gr in 30-06 so that’s what I bought. Max load is 57gr so I tried to set up the powder dispenser in the 54 -55 gr range and was a bit surprised that others trust this without weighing every load. I had a lot of variation and to set it up I dispensed a crazy amount powder through it. I think I will have to do more work on the set up of the dispenser as it wasn’t accurate or consistent enough for me. In my opinion, the videos on the RCBS site are more marketing focused and while worth watching the FAQ videos are the best.
I measured every spent case and since I only shot Nosler ammo, they were all very consistent lengths. I don’t have a case trimmer yet but will get one. The case length in the manual recommends 2.494 case length. Most of mine were 2.491 so I decided 3/1000th of an inch was close enough after some reading. Overall bullet length (OAL) definitely created a couple of pauses for me. The recommended cartridge length of 3.340 threw me. After measuring my factory loads and setting up my press based on that, I got lengths ranging from 3.234 to 3.243. I did a lot of reading about trying to determine the bullet seating depth specific to your rifle but that seems above my pay grade. After more reading and some logic, I figured that if the factory load worked then I should trust that length. I definitely spent a lot of time measuring the bullet to see if perhaps I was seating it too far but that seems like wasted time now.
After loading 5 cartridges with 55gr and 56 gr of IMR 4350 I felt pretty proud of myself and just for kicks decided I would weigh each finished load. Given my diligence, I expected every load to be within .2 or .3 of a grain (per recipe). Imagine my panic when the cartridge weight varied from 406.4 gr to 420.6. The factory load I had as my template weighed 417.8gr. I immediately questioned how much powder I loaded and tried to figure out how I could screw up after being so methodical and measured. I recalibrated my scale re-checked my process and did a bunch of math on the sum of the parts but nothing added up.
The one thing I didn’t weigh before reloading was the de-primed case as I assumed they would all weigh the same since the length was so close. Most of my cartridges weighed somewhere between 202.5 to 202.2. A mere 3/10th of a grain and even in my paranoid state I agreed that was irrelevant. So I kept checking the remaining unloaded cartridges and then my first 193.6 gr cartridge appeared. That was still less than 10 gr and didn’t explain the full variance but gave me some hope. Then I found my first 181.5 gr cartridge, then a 181.6 gr and a 181.4 gr. I felt relief in at least knowing now how there could be so much weight variance but then got nervous. Could this have an effect on my load? I re-weighed every case and had a handful that were up to 20 gr different so I can only deduce that there is variance in brass thickness or quality to explain such a difference. After much deliberation and some unsuccessful research, I figured again that if my gun originally shot the factory load successfully then the brass weight shouldn’t impact the rounds I loaded. But I still heard my father from 27 years ago saying ‘everything needs to be the same’ and definitely had a lot of doubt as I headed to the range the next day.
I put two rounds of my factory load down the pipe just to make sure the gun was as I left it after last season. Both rounds were inside 1 inch at 100 yards so I had no excuses. I loaded my first round of 54 gr IMR after the barrel cooled to start with the lesser load then move up as many people recommend. There were two other shooters at the club so I felt comfort that if something went horribly wrong one of them would call 911. I was terrified. I wasn’t using a lead sled and just had the bench with 2 sandbags. After setting up as I normally would, I realized my right hand (I am a lefty) would be right in the area of where all of the over pressured loads I read about tore barrels. So I moved my right hand back, adjusted the sandbag to support the gun and set the cross hairs on my target – not my normal shooting stance. My heart was pounding like I had a 7x7 in the sights. I did this 3 or 4 times before I convinced myself I did everything by the book and triple checked weights. One last time, I looked over my shoulder to make sure the two other shooters were still in sight and nervously squeezed the trigger. Bang! I didn’t even look at where the shot hit but first checked my gun to make sure nothing exploded, then ejected the load to see if it felt tight or to see if the case looked stressed. The shell came out normally and it looked just like any spent case. I didn’t notice any difference in recoil. Finally I looked at the target and holy smokes it hit about an inch and change high and slightly left. My gun is zeroed for 200 yards so theoretically should hit 1.7 inches high at 100 yards. Given my heart rate and fear when I squeezed the trigger, this was pretty darn close. I allowed the barrel to cool then let the second hand loaded round fly. It placed about 1 inch from the first round. I repeated the process 7 times and using the three different recipes (54 gr, 55gr, 56gr), everything hit within 1.5 inches. I was elated. I went home and immediately loaded 5 rounds of the 55gr recipe – much quicker I might add. I can’t wait to go back and last night ordered dies for my .357 Magnum revolver and the 45-70. From everything I have read the 45-70 is a bigger die and pistol loading is a slightly different process. So more learning there.
I would love to get some thoughts on my experience from the pro’s. The fact that my gun didn’t explode in my face and I was reasonably accurate I take that away as a success but by no means feel like I am competent. Maybe that will come with more mileage. If anyone knows of a course, sign me up.
My gun is a Tikka T3 Lite Stainless. It shoots the Nosler factory loads very consistently but I really wanted to get back into reloading. With time reading, watching videos and measuring everything three times I figure each round is worth about 3 hours of time but as I reload more and get more confident I know that average will get better. Its kind of like when I bought my salmon boat back in 1998. It wasn’t until year two that I got my salmon down to under $100 a pound but like salmon fishing its way cheaper to buy fish at the grocery store but not near as fun or rewarding. Hopefully in two years I can say the same about reloading!
I ‘have mobile bench and will travel’ if anyone wants a keen student. In absence of that, thanks to everyone who shares their knowledge with videos and blogs. People like me watch and re-watch them.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg First reload 2.jpg (49.1 KB, 82 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-17-2017, 12:35 PM
Subaru297 Subaru297 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 70
Default

Good writeup. I has been a while since I reloaded but one thing I remember is that the powder measures are not accurate with certain powders. I think I was using IMR 4350 as well. Very inconsistent charges. I set it a little shy of the charge I wanted and then trickle some additional powder into the scale to get the charge you want.
Many people will weigh the cases and separated them into similar batches. If you have a case with a thicker or thinner wall then the case capacity is not identical and therefore you can have differing pressures, velocities and point of impact.

I would also recommend shooting each load at a separate target.

Hope that helps.
Cheers
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-17-2017, 01:30 PM
qwert qwert is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,443
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock&Ice View Post
snip
then bought a tumbler for the brass and decided on corn media. I can’t quite remember what we did when we were kids but I am absolutely certain we never had anything to clean the brass except for some brasso (which I also used to polish my brass after a couple hours in the tumbler).
I prefer crushed walnut for cleaning as it is more aggressive and cleans faster, (buying in bulk is a LOT cheaper than any branded stuff), place some small pieces of used dryer sheet in the walnut to catch the crud and keep your walnut clean longer.
I suggest you save your corn cob media for polishing.

AFAIK, Brasso contains ammonia which can leach zinc from brass and make it brittle, avoid Brasso.
I prefer NuFinish car polish, which I thin 50/50 with paint thinner/mineral spirits.
I use 2 cap-fulls of thinned polish in the first batch, then ~1 cap-full for subsequent batches (or as required).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock&Ice View Post
I tried to set up the powder dispenser in the 54 -55 gr range and was a bit surprised that others trust this without weighing every load. I had a lot of variation and to set it up I dispensed a crazy amount powder through it. I think I will have to do more work on the set up of the dispenser as it wasn’t accurate or consistent enough for me.
Few powder measures are able to accurately dispense extruded stick powders. Most of us set the powder measure to dispense low, and then trickle up to our desired charge weight. Powder measures may work better with ball or flake powders.

NOTE: Most of us use starting loads lower than you did, Some suggest starting -10% below max, but NOT below the manual suggested starting load.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock&Ice View Post
I did a lot of reading about trying to determine the bullet seating depth specific to your rifle but that seems above my pay grade. After more reading and some logic, I figured that if the factory load worked then I should trust that length. I definitely spent a lot of time measuring the bullet to see if perhaps I was seating it too far but that seems like wasted time now.
Factory loads will (usually) be SAAMI spec, but are NOT designed for best performance in YOUR INDIVIDUAL firearm.
COAL is really just a SAAMI spec, that is mainly relevant to maximum length that will fit and feed from the magazine.
I suggest you research CBTO (Cartridge Base To Ogive) length, and obtain a comparator attachment for your caliper to allow you to measure it properly.
http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/...structions.pdf

I suggest purchasing the body attachment for your caliper and individual inserts for your bullet caliber and also the correct case shoulder bump insert for your cartridge (the case shoulder bump insert will be used to properly adjust the FL sizing die for YOUR INDIVIDUAL chamber).
The Hornady and Sinclair inserts fit in both bodies, the inserts are slightly different, I use both as some situations are better measured by each.
http://www.brownells.com/search/inde...ator&ksubmit=y
I prefer the Sinclair case bump inserts (as they are fitted to shoulder angle) and Sinclair XL body as it allows measuring the case shoulder over a seated bullet.
http://www.brownells.com/reloading/m...prod35265.aspx

Welcome to the affliction,
Good Luck, YMMV.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-17-2017, 01:36 PM
wwbirds's Avatar
wwbirds wwbirds is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: near Calgary
Posts: 6,638
Default

I also hunt with the 165 grain partitions in my 30-06. I found a cheaper alternative to sight in and practice being the 165 gr Hornady BTSP having the same ballistic coefficient so POI was almost exactly the same as my hunting loads and they are more than half the price to practice with.
I started at 53.5 grains of IMR 4350 and worked up in half grain increments to 56 grains which oddly enough has been my most accurate load in at least 4 30-06's. As had been said I use a 5 shot group at each grain increment (54, 54.5, 55, 55.5, 56 and you could go to 56.5 and 57 if no pressure signs) each on a separate target until I find the most accurate group (1/2 inch for my rifle) some will break this down further by 2/10 grains on either side (55.8 and 56.2) to gain further subtle differences. Before I got my RCBS combo I measured each individual charge manually and after finding my load used my powder measure set on the specific charge for each calibre. I had a powder measure permanently set up for 22-250 243, 270 and 30-06 to my specific charge for each.
It is a fun process.
__________________
a hunting we will go!!!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-17-2017, 01:41 PM
Rock&Ice Rock&Ice is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Canmore
Posts: 33
Default

Thanks for the comments guys! The detail is fantastic and just what I am looking for. Love it!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-17-2017, 06:18 PM
gunluvr's Avatar
gunluvr gunluvr is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,594
Default

I used to try to separate all my brass by weight, but didn't find enough variation within one brand to be of much concern. Now I just segregate brass by manufacturer. I bought a Hornady headspace comparator kit to help with die adjustment. I try to bump shoulders .002" from fired brass measurement. I use an RCBS powder measure to throw charges, then weigh each one. I trickle (or remove) powder to get within 1/10 of a grain. With my electronic scale, I find I have to lift the pan and replace it to get an accurate reading. Don't worry about variations in cartridge overall weight. Too many variables.
A Hornady cartridge overall length gauge ( with modified cases for each cartridge) is a great tool for setting c.o.a.l.
__________________
Some days you're a bullet; some days you're a gopher.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-08-2017, 08:03 AM
aardvaark aardvaark is offline
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Lacombe, AB
Posts: 482
Default

Your Dad was bang-on correct when he said that consistency is everything. As you discovered, brass can be very inconsistent, even within the same brand and the same lot. By considerable amounts. (you can do the same thing with your bullets as well.)

Here's an analogy I use when dealing with brass weight: The inside of the case can be compared to the individual combustion chambers of a V-8 engine. If the combustion chambers are not all equal in volume, (same as when the case capacity's aren't all the same, you are going to get differing power strokes from the differing pistons. This is what you get with factory loads (and factory engines). You get different case volumes, differing powder amounts, resulting in larger groups. (or a rougher-running engine.) When you tailor-make each round, you get the consistency that is required to produce ammunition that will perform much more identically from round-to-round. (When you balance-and-blueprint an engine you get an engine that runs smoother and produces better power because each cylinder is identical.)

Keep up with your studying, analyzing, and discovering. Discovering reloading was a fascinating hobby for me (I say 'was' because most of the studying I do gets somewhat repetitive as I now know a lot of the stuff that's written on the subject.) I don't mean to sound like I know it all, cuz I definitely do not. I spent many, many evenings just reading and thinking about the various different aspects of the hobby. And continue to learn and improve as a result.

Last edited by aardvaark; 05-08-2017 at 08:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-08-2017, 08:18 AM
aardvaark aardvaark is offline
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Lacombe, AB
Posts: 482
Default

One of the sites that I have really enjoyed and benefited from is Varmint Al at varmintal.com especially the info he's got on case prep on his reloading page.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.