A5, steel and handloads

[densa44]

I need a little help here, we have a new (1946) to us A5 and it has been checked out by a gunsmith and completely cleaned. The barrel is mod.

It shoots steel store bought BB's no problem, however the shooter complains that she is hitting the birds and the shot is "bouncing off".

I made up some steel shot (they look like ssg's) I bought from one of our fine sponsors, I think they are called TTT. I have one ounce of these "Mercedes Ball bearings," I'm told, that's why they cost so much. I'm using 32 gr. of BD (it is what the powder manufacturer recommends). They kill the ducks just fine, I figure the geese too, BUT they don't eject the spent shell. It recocks the gun.

Of the options available, tinker with the gun, hotter load, more shot, what should I try first?

This is our first auto ever, I needed an 870 to shoot most of my reloads, not so any more.

[catnthehat]

Go with Bismuth shot and you will be fine.
My buddy was killing geese just fine with winchester 1550FPS BB's the other night out of a 2 3/4" gun.
Cat

[Dakota369]

Originally Posted by densa44

I need a little help here, we have a new (1946) to us A5 and it has been checked out by a gunsmith and completely cleaned. The barrel is mod.

It shoots steel store bought BB's no problem, however the shooter complains that she is hitting the birds and the shot is "bouncing off".

I made up some steel shot (they look like ssg's) I bought from one of our fine sponsors, I think they are called TTT. I have one ounce of these "Mercedes Ball bearings," I'm told, that's why they cost so much. I'm using 32 gr. of BD (it is what the powder manufacturer recommends). They kill the ducks just fine, I figure the geese too, BUT they don't eject the spent shell. It recocks the gun.

Of the options available, tinker with the gun, hotter load, more shot, what should I try first?

This is our first auto ever, I needed an 870 to shoot most of my reloads, not so any more.

Has the barrel been chalked??? If not you run the risk of bulging it near the end.........

[Pioneer2]

Better off with heavy metal #2 or #3's also Black Cloud Snow Goose #2 is death to large mallards at extended ranges..........Harold

[densa44]

So from those that know, I need denser shot? One of the lead substitutes, not just bigger steel?

If that is so, why does the store bought BB's cycle? Are they hotter than what Alliant tells me to load with Blue dot?

Thanks guys, I thought that this should be easy! I should know better at my age!

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by densa44

So from those that know, I need denser shot? One of the lead substitutes, not just bigger steel?

If that is so, why does the store bought BB's cycle? Are they hotter than what Alliant tells me to load with Blue dot?

Thanks guys, I thought that this should be easy! I should know better at my age!

Not so much denser shot or bigger, but SOFTER!
Steel does not compress like lead , Bismuth, etc, and tighter chokes do not work as well with steel for this reason.

The steel tends to bridge in the choke , or sprays out something like a water hose because the shot bounces of each other , like that little desk top knick-knack with the steel balls on the string that bounce into each other.
if the balls were made of lead when the first one was lifted then slammed into the next one, the last one would not bounce nearly so high as the steel once because it absorbs the shock .
Cat

[ShawnM]

In a 1946 A5 I would definitely be switching to a bismuth or tungsten alloy shot. It's a beautiful old gun that wasn't meant for steel shot.

[densa44]

Well that makes scents. The balls are ricocheting around in the barrel? The wad cup doesn't hold them I take it.

Well thanks guys, back to the drawing board.

[eastcoastsoxfan]

Originally Posted by densa44

BUT they don't eject the spent shell. It recocks the gun.

Of the options available, tinker with the gun, hotter load, more shot, what should I try first?

This is our first auto ever, I needed an 870 to shoot most of my reloads, not so any more.

I dont know much about A5s but Id guesss you need a hotter load. Have any Aliant Steel Powder? That'll do the trick Id think. TTTs might be a bit overkill also, they'd be good for coyotes!

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by densa44

Well that makes scents. The balls are ricocheting around in the barrel? The wad cup doesn't hold them I take it.

Well thanks guys, back to the drawing board.

Not so much ricocheting around in the barrel , but there is a danger of bridging, a situatio where the shot charge does not compress properly but actually jams itself together, this is where big time barrel damage can occur.

The boucning effect happens as the shot charge is leaving the barrel.
Cat

[ShawnM]

If you have your heart set on using it the bismuth or tungsten alloy shells work just great. They more closely resemble lead in terms of performance. They are expensive but it's work protecting your old shottys.

[densa44]

What is that powder called Steel like? Has any one used it? It produces higher velocity. Since the steel shot only weighs an once, we aren't shooting a very heavy load, just about the same weight as a trap load.

Any experience out there? In the old days I would have just used a 1 oz. load for Red Dot and fired off a few, but now with this steel business, I'm much more cautious.

[catnthehat]

I use Alliant Steel for my 28 and 20 gauge field loads for cold weather at times , and it works great!
Cat

[ShawnM]

I use Alliant's Steel for my steel shells. Works like a hot damn, great velocity (which is what counts for steel loads), burns nice and clean, etc.

Lots of load data for it too in the Lyman book, BPI's reloading manual, Reloading Specialties, etc.

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by ShawnM

I use Alliant's Steel for my steel shells. Works like a hot damn, great velocity (which is what counts for steel loads), burns nice and clean, etc.

Lots of load data for it too in the Lyman book, BPI's reloading manual, Reloading Specialties, etc.

Shawn:

Do you use Blue Dot for your steel loads?

If you do use Blue Dot for your steel loads, do you find there is temperature sensitivity.... a lot of unburned powder in the barrel when the morning is at , near or below freezing?

[wwbirds]

I'm with Shawn on this one. It is a sin to put steel T bearings through a 1946 Auto 5.
Now having said that there are several models including the mag which needed the 3 inch shells to make the gas piston work. there are also brass bushings which may not be in the right position for the type of shell you are shooting. these things cycle on field loads but I suspect even the 2 3/4 model after many years would need a powerful gas burst to function.
Old guns and old shooters are similar Bob

[densa44]

First about the gun, it was $250 and came to us for free, (dog rental!).

The gun is set up for light loads and that is fine by me.

If I keep this up I'll switch to "steel" powder.

I really appreciate the advice guys.

[greylynx]

shooting. these things cycle on field loads but I suspect even the 2 3/4 model after many years would need a powerful gas burst to function.
Old guns and old shooters are similar Bob[/QUOTE]

Bob:

There is a lot of truth in what you wrote.

[ShawnM]

Originally Posted by densa44

First about the gun, it was $250 and came to us for free, (dog rental!).

The gun is set up for light loads and that is fine by me.

If I keep this up I'll switch to "steel" powder.

I really appreciate the advice guys.

I'll give you $275 for the gun just so you don't put Steel shot through the barrel.

[ShawnM]

Originally Posted by greylynx

Shawn:

Do you use Blue Dot for your steel loads?

If you do use Blue Dot for your steel loads, do you find there is temperature sensitivity.... a lot of unburned powder in the barrel when the morning is at , near or below freezing?

I've used Blue Dot for steel loads last year and wasn't too happy with the performance. They went boom and everything but I didn't feel like I was getting the velocity I get from Steel. As to temp sensitivity I haven't noticed many problems, Blue Dot is known to be a pretty dirty powder so if I see carbon down the barrels it's normal to me.