7mm accuracy

[nekred]

7mm.... use 165 grain bullets and see what happens that is usually the ultimate bullet for that rifle if you want to shoot 175 grains....then get a .30 caliber such as a 30-06 and shoot 180 grains.

If it does not shoot the 165's well then it is the gun or you!.

Just my opinion!...

[Waxy]

I tried a few bullet types and brands of ammunition, I never had worse than a 2" group. My Sako 7mm Rem Mag is sub MOA with the Federal Premium 165 grain Sierra Game King boattails.

I'm not a bullet expert, so in terms of bullet performance I don't know I won't claim them to be the best, but I've found them to be fast, flat, very accurate, and very effective on impact.

Everyone in our hunting group (4+ 7mms) is using the same Federal 165s with excellent results.

Waxy

[needmoretoys]

Originally Posted by nekred

7mm.... use 165 grain bullets and see what happens that is usually the ultimate bullet for that rifle if you want to shoot 175 grains....then get a .30 caliber such as a 30-06 and shoot 180 grains.

If it does not shoot the 165's well then it is the gun or you!.

Just my opinion!...

This is so true! I have a 7mm Mag in a Whichester Model 70 XTR and it only likes to eat Federal Premuim 165 g Sierra Game Kings. My brother has the same rifle in .308 and it only likes the 180g Winchester Silver tips. One of my hunting partners has the same rifle in .270 and it only likes Federal Premuim 135 g. They are all different. Once you find a round, stick with it. If you read any of the Sniper forums, they only have 1 round the they use. they just learn how to use it in all conditions. Unless you can reload a round just before you shoot, you are not going to get any greater accuracy than a good factory round or a reload that your gun likes. Also a good practice is once you fine the factory round, buy a few boxes that are of the same lot. This assures you that everything is the same.

[curtis_rak]

Originally Posted by stubblejumper

What does bore sighting have to do with group size?

If I had to guess I would say he has a scope problem... why not start from there? 50yd bore sight, shoot a bit, go too 100yds, shoot some more...

Its just a suggestion, just like all the other posts. I think thats an easy and cheap step to take before using handloads ect. to try and solve the problem....

If I had to guess I would say he has a scope problem... why not start from there? 50yd bore sight, shoot a bit, go too 100yds, shoot some more...

Its just a suggestion, just like all the other posts. I think thats an easy and cheap step to take before using handloads ect. to try and solve the problem....

Bore sighting will neither prove nor disprove a bad scope any more than shooting a target will.The best way to prove a bad scope,is to mount another scope on the gun.If the groups tighten up significantly with another scope,the problem will be solved.In any case,bore sighting won't tell you as much as actually shooting a target.I would try other loads.

[7 REM MAG]

ive found with my 7 mag that the lighter and faster the bullet the better groupings i get especially with barnes, they seem to really prefer to be pushed at or even a little above max load for my gun anyway

[Boulderman]

I had a 7mm rem model 700 and i shot 165 grain nosler partition bullets. they shot very well for me. A couple seasons ago I bought a new Sako fin light and i thought since the 165's worked well in the past that i would continue shooting them. Well i was wrong they were all over the paper, so i tried a box of lighter 150 grain balistic tip and man was i happy it was the first time in my life that i had bullet holes that touched each other. It was a great feeling!

I had a 7mm rem model 700 and i shot 165 grain nosler partition bullets.

Perhaps 160gr partitions?

[Dick284]

"My experience with the 7 Rem Mag has been it is a bit of a high spirited thouroughbred, with a delecate palate, and therefore some may need a bit more of a specific diet than others."

I said may, not anything else.

Debating what may or may not work in someone elses rifle is point less.
This thread should have ended with a go and find out for yourself post, but NO we like to debate the un senscial what if's till the friggin end of time.

My only advice in this thread is, go find out for yourself!!

My experience with the 7 Rem Mag has been it is a bit of a high spirited thouroughbred, with a delecate palate, and therefore some may need a bit more of a specific diet than others.

Having owned three 7mmremmags,and developed loads for five more,I find them no fussier than any other cartridge.All shoot well with 140gr bullets,and most with 150 and 160gr bullets.When using the heavier bullets,they seem to show more preference for bullet type.I have had the best luck with r-22 and the 140gr ballistic tip,140gr accubond, or the 140gr tsx,

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Dick284

"My experience with the 7 Rem Mag has been it is a bit of a high spirited thouroughbred, with a delecate palate, and therefore some may need a bit more of a specific diet than others."

I said may, not anything else.

Debating what may or may not work in someone elses rifle is point less.
This thread should have ended with a go and find out for yourself post, but NO we like to debate the un senscial what if's till the friggin end of time.

My only advice in this thread is, go find out for yourself!!

Screwed that one up did'nt I.

Debating what may or may not work in someone elses rifle is point less.
This thread should have ended with a go and find out for yourself post, but NO we like to debate the un senscial what if's till the friggin end of time.

That is how it should have ended,but unfortunately many people don't understand that all rifles are individuals and they assume that it is possible to predict which load will be accurate in a given rifle.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by stubblejumper

That is how it should have ended,but unfortunately many people don't understand that all rifles are individuals and they assume that it is possible to predict which load will be accurate in a given rifle.

I agree 100%.

[SHORTMAG]

My Sako 7MM Rem Mag was petty peticular when digesting ammo........I tried at least 12 different combinations before I got the best Heavy load...Fed/Prem/175 gr/nosler.....consistant 1/2 inch groups @ 100 yds. On the lighter side it turned out to be Winchester Supreme,140 Gr Balistic SilverTips...Once again, 5 shot groups covered with a nickle..AS LONG AS I DID MY THING aaaand some days it's harder than others, Believe me ! Buy lots and practice, practice, practice.

[ctd]

Heres my take on this situation.

100 yards 2" group not bad.

To many factors to be taken into account here.
How good of a group can you get when you shoot with out any support.

Just curious, can you snap a picture of your grouping and post it so we can see.
Alot can be determined with seeing the grouping then by chatting online about it and speculating on what grade ammo you need.

If you can hit your target's vital area first shot then what does it matter about hitting it with 6 bullets.

If you can hit your target's vital area first shot then what does it matter about hitting it with 6 bullets.

If you don't shoot several shots at targets to test your shooting skills,how will you ever know if you can hit the vital area with the first shot?

[ctd]

Here goes. When I was in the Army we use to shoot at targets, use five round groups and get scored on. They would use grouping size, and position on the target to score.

I always argued that method of shooting. How many rounds would you shoot into a single target. One maybe two if your lucky.

The reason for shooting groupings is to score yourself, win a compitition or have bragging rights.

What COUNTS is first round placement with if given the small chance a better second round placement.

When I shoot on a target I want to know where the first, then second then third then 4th round land.
I do not really care how close they are together.
I may have adjusted my position, or I may have adjusted my scope, the wind may have picked up or dropped off.

I can see why a person would want to get tight groupings, this confirms that they are a good shooter, they use the equipment properly and so on.
But in real life when shooting a Deer, Moose or even a gopher do you get a chance to shoot more then one round. Rarely.

Usually in real life you get a chance to make one shot, then if you didnt hit it for any number of reasons/lies , you might get another chance but this chance will be in a different position, different direction etc.

All shooting a grouping does is frustrate some or make others not trust their equipment, when infact there is nothing wrong.

I have seen and shot some rather questionable in accuracy rifles and I can say although they couldnt group well, they could shoot well enough to kill something.

Again a 2" grouping at 100 yards is not bad.

To properly site in and score your groupings you will need to do a grouping at 50yards, then 100 then 200 then 300. Using no less then 5 rds per grouping at each distance then reconfirm yourself at 100. This may take 20 rounds or it may take 100rds, depending on your ability, your equipment and outside conditions.

That is my opinion, on this subject

First round is the only round that counts

[catnthehat]

We tend to get target shooting, rifle accuracy, hunting and marksmanship mixed up sometimes.
When doing load development, groups are VERY important if one is developing an accurate load.

When in competition, scoring for group is important, yes, however, that is rarely done with an actual hunting rifle, rather a bench rest style of rifle.
A target competitionthat is based on scoring can be won with a rifle of questionable accuracy, yes, but it normally is not the case.
The bottom line is, the winner of regular matches could likely win the matches with any of the rifles in the line up.

Now, as far as group analysis goes for trouble shooting a rifle, much can be wrought from looking at a target if one knows what he is looking at.
There is no sense im my mind why a person should hunt with a rifle that strings, walks, or otherwise spreads rounds over a target if it can be fixed.

Bad bedding on bolt actions, and the hanger blocks on ruger No.1's being an example.
Another is the support of the forward part of the barrel on Mausers, and the reliving of the rear tang on savage 110's.

All these things can make dramatic differences to rifle accuracy - NOT alwyas, but they can.
As far as shooting groups at different distances , I am in agreement there, are both Stubblejumper and Dick284 - I know both gentleman, and can tell you that NIETHER just grab a rifle and go hunting.

Load development is one of their passions and pastimes, as well as rifles themselves.

Myself, I anylize everthing there is about a rifle , shoot groups with it from all positions till my head spins, maybe do a hunt with it, then for some unexplained reason tend to sell it after I get it tuned and driving tacks!!
Never could get my head around that one.....
cat

The reason for shooting groupings is to score yourself, win a compitition or have bragging rights.

Shooting groups is done to prove the rifle,the load,and your consistency when shooting.

I can see why a person would want to get tight groupings, this confirms that they are a good shooter, they use the equipment properly and so on.
But in real life when shooting a Deer, Moose or even a gopher do you get a chance to shoot more then one round. Rarely.

As for testing your shooting skills,it really doesn't matter if you shoot one target several times,or several targets once.Shooting groups on one target is just as easy to do and saves targets.I normally use over 100 targets each year when developing loads or practicing,so why waste money by shooting only one shot at each target,and using several times as many?

What COUNTS is first round placement with if given the small chance a better second round placement.

If you fire several groups,and every one of the shots in each group would be in the vital zone,you can be confident that the first shot will strike the vital zone when you fire at an animal.

I have seen and shot some rather questionable in accuracy rifles and I can say although they couldnt group well, they could shoot well enough to kill something.

If you can't consistently hit the vital zone on a target,how do you expect to hit the vital zone on an animal?I see people at the range that can barely hold 6" groups off of a rest at 100 yards,yet these same people often attempt 300 yard shots in the field.Yes they do kill animals,but many also miss or worse yet wound and lose animals,however,they brag about the shots that they make,and seldom mention lost or wounded animals.

[ctd]

How big is the vital area on a target on a animal that within 2 inches of center of vital area at 100 yards is not good enough?

I understand that people want to be able to shoot .5" groups at 100yards.

2" at 100 yards is not a bad grouping, unless you are compitition shooting for points. Thats all I am saying.

It is obvious that we have some awesome shooters on this site whole can attain some real tight groups. So trying to reassure a person that 2" @100yards is good enough falls on deaf ears.

To that end I will continue to read this post but will refrain from posting anymore comments on this thread.

Cheers,

How big is the vital area on a target on a animal that within 2 inches of center of vital area at 100 yards is not good enough?

That 2" group is at 100 yards off of a bench rest.If you decide to shoot at 200 yards or 300 yards from field positions,that vital zone just may not be large enough.Normally a 2" group off a bench rest at 100 yards becomes an 4" group at 200 yards,and a 6" group at 300 yards off of a bench rest.Of course that is off a bench rest and shooting under field conditions will make those groups significantly larger.If the gun shoots 1/2" groups off of a bench rest at 100 yards,that equates to 1" at 200 yards and 1-1/2" at 300 yards.Those 1" and 1-1/2" groups leave a lot more room for shooter error in the field when trying to hit the vital zone than the 4" and 6" groups.

[Boulderman]

Originally Posted by stubblejumper

Perhaps 160gr partitions?

You could be right on the bullet weight I dont exacty remember, I tried to find a old box but I did not have any left.

[kranky]

Due to work commitments I haven't been able to get to the range since I started this thread. After reading all of your comments I'm going to try a lighter bullet weight (if I ever get the chance ). Stubbljumpers last post hits the nail on the head from my prospective. That's why I originally asked the question. 2" groups at 100 yds from the bench just isn't good enough for me.

I appreciate all of your input, and I'll let you know how things progress.

[LongDraw]

Buy 4 different brands/boxes of whatever ammo suites your fancy within a certain bullet weight that suites what game you are primarily hunting (150-175 grain bullets IMO for the 7mmRM)

Before you shoot make sure all mounting screws on the gun, rings, and bases are tight.....

Take a big piece of paper and put 4 -1/2" dots with the brand/bullet clearly marked on the target. Shoot a 3 shot group at each dot @ 100 yards and see what kind of results you get. If it is close with a couple of the groups, repeat. Take your 2 best groups and repeat this process at 300 yards and see what this distance shows.

I like to do it on the same sheet of paper, makes it easy to compare group size.

Like many have said, every rifle is an individual, even a gun with a twin brother will not shoot the same ammo with similar results. There is absolutely no rhyme or reason to what will shoot in your gun.

Good luck, let us know the results.

[kranky]

I finally made it back to the range. I bought some Federal Premium 140 grn and gave her a thorough cleaning ( used some bore paste) and checked the scope mounts. I happy to say she shoots loonie sized groups now. Thank you all for your advice.

[sbtennex]

Good for you! Unless I missed it somewhere, what's the rifle? A lot of out-of-the-box new rifles nowadays can get real accurate real quick with a better or a properly adjusted trigger e.g. my Vanguard trigger sucked, a .243, with the stock trigger, any load. One of a 3-shot group was a flyer, sometimes 2/3. With a Rifle Basix installed @ about 3.5 lbs, it's now what W'by claimed it was supposed to be - SubMOA instead of SubFOA! Buddy's 58 grain Varminators shoot ragged holes all day and my favorite bullet, 100 gr Partitions in factory Federal, are always less than .9" 3-groups (except 20 clicks down and a bunch right)