.............

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Mark

I've just sent another batch of letters out stating this position. Jim Allen at least has had the courtesy of reply. My MLA, Allison Redford, hasn't even acknowledged receipt of one of my four letters to her.

Send a note to her rival and leader of the opposition....about her inability to respond, might get some attention

LC

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Send a note to her rival and leader of the opposition....about her inability to respond, might get some attention

LC

Tomorrow Am, still no answer from anyone other than Allison, but she wanted to know if anyone else answered. I guess she'll find out.
Error... Danielle was the one who emailed me, got them mixed up.

[walking buffalo]

Keep the letters flowing. Word is spreading, people are taking notice....


In particular at this time, contact AFGA and ask what their thoughts are on the graphs compiled by Deer Hunter, are they using this data at the discussions? What is AFGA's position on desired Allocation levels and Outfitter access to licences where Residents have a long wait time to draw?
Or try this question, ask AFGA what was the Allowable harvest in Species Managemet Area 1 for Antlered Mule deer last year....


I'm awaiting discussions with AFGA executives outside of the Hunting Chair, and will give this approach another day, two tops before filling in the Resident hunting public and AFGA members on how we are being represented.

For now, l'll just say that I am extremely dissapointed, actually dumbfounded....

[elkhunter11]

Yes I am a guide and soon maybe an outfitter.

Finally the true motive for you not wanting to see non resident hunting opportunities in Alberta reduced, surfaces.

102, you are conveniently forgetting that Resident hunters have already taken cuts to licences for conservation reasons. It is the Outfitters turn.

The residents have already taken extreme cuts, up to 90% reduction in tags in some cases.

[Bowhunter102]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Finally the true motive for you not wanting to see non resident hunting opportunities in Alberta reduced, surfaces.




The residents have already taken extreme cuts, up to 90% reduction in tags in some cases.

First off I don't have any motive.I won't be guiding or outfitting this upcoming year so that means nothing. I feel all people deserve a fair shake including non residents. As for loosing 90% that only applies to antelope as far as I see. What motive do you or anybody else have in 95% of Wmu's. Fighting over 2 or 3 tags. Those tags mean jack. Does not make a difference in the resident draw. Still going to be same wait times.

[elkhunter11]

First off I don't have any motive.I won't be guiding or outfitting this upcoming year so that means nothing.

The allocations are for five years, not just the upcoming year.

What motive do you or anybody else have in 95% of Wmu's.

My motive is to ensure that the Alberta taxpayers are given the most opportunity to enjoy the resources, that our tax dollars pay to manage.

Fighting over 2 or 3 tags.

In 2011/12 there were zones where the outfitters held 10 pronghorn allocations , while the resident tags were limited to 5 or 10. To maintain the 10% ratio, each of those zones should only have had 1 outfitter allocation, not 10. Given that only 140 resident tags were issued in total, an extra 30 tags could have been issued to residents, and still maintain the same amount of tags in total. When the residents are only issued 140 tags, an extra 30 tags is a significant number.

[Bowhunter102]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The allocations are for five years, not just the upcoming year.




My motive is to ensure that the Alberta taxpayers are given the most opportunity to enjoy the resources, that our tax dollars pay to manage.



In 2011/12 there were zones where the outfitters held 10 pronghorn allocations , while the resident tags were limited to 5 or 10. To maintain the 10% ratio, each of those zones should only have had 1 outfitter allocation, not 10. Given that only 140 resident tags were issued in total, an extra 30 tags could have been issued to residents, and still maintain the same amount of tags in total. When the residents are only issued 140 tags, an extra 30 tags is a significant number.

Good one. I already stated all antelop tags shoul have been canceled for all till recovery. Also I am against nr tags for them.

Tax money comes more from all the American and forign companies in this province. Heck 2/3 of the oil money is thanks to forign companies. So I would say your tax money was spent way before the last on the governments priority was funded.

Last why do you and deer hunter have different numbers? You state 10% and deer hunter mr front man for some one posts 5% and whines it should be even less to because of all his skewed numbers. Heck the guy can't even respond to me cause he has no clue or is avoiding any real questions. Instead someone else bails him out claiming info I read that was from the minutes of the agmag meeting is wrong that my bud shared with me. Also I Think the numbers should be done every year or two. Five years is to far ahead to calculate tag numbers.

So really fair is fair and I don't see a problem with that. I see problems with most that just whine to read there post on here. All of you should not worry about poor me and think about the herds Apos included. I just don't think anybody should be singled out. Look at how bowhunters have been treated in the last couple years. I read they are suppose to have a percentage of all tags too but keep loosing them to rifle hunters. Moose,elk and now muledeer. So if you all want to whine about your poor tags were the hell are the 15% for archers? I think there should be a separate draw for archery for every rifle draw in our province. Fair is fair. Right guys?

[elkhunter11]

Heck 2/3 of the oil money is thanks to forign companies.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/12/10/w...ign-investors/

: Canadian investors already own 65 per cent of the assets in the oil and gas sector

As for the Alberta tax payers, we not only pay our income taxes, and property taxes here, but we spend by far the majority of our money here, unlike a non resident that visits Alberta for a week or so to hunt. As well, by far the vast majority of the land that the animals live on is owned by Alberta tax payers.
As such, where our Alberta hunting opportunities are concerned, the first priority should go to those Alberta tax payers.

[Bowhunter102]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/12/10/w...ign-investors/

Don't feel like reading your post. You sir pay nothing more than anybody else in this province for SRD. I don't care if you pay $50,000 in taxes every year. Heck you are just paying more towards all the pensions for retired politicians. Fair is fair and no one sees it. Open your eyes.

[elkhunter11]

Don't feel like reading your post. You sir pay nothing more than anybody else in this province for SRD.

Which is far more than non resident hunters pay to fund SRD. And as far as outfitters are concerned, the Alberta hunters combined, pay far more in taxes, than the outfitters combined.

[Bowhunter102]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Which is far more than non resident hunters pay to fund SRD. And as far as outfitters are concerned, the Alberta hunters combined, pay far more in taxes, than the outfitters combined.

What is your point. They pay way more to hunt. Maybe they should have to pay a trophy fee also. But they are entitled to there fair share. Are you that thick not to understand that. All have entitlement to a % of tags. You can't argue that.

[elkhunter11]

What is your point. They pay way more to hunt. Maybe they should have to pay a trophy fee also. But they are entitled to there fair share. Are you that thick not to understand that. All have entitlement to a % of tags. You can't argue that.

Why should a non resident be "entitled" to any of Alberta's resources? You make it sound like we owe those non resident hunters something. What have those non resident hunters done, for us to owe them anything? Why should we ever put non residents ahead of our own residents? We should be looking after our own residents first. If, and only if the supply exceeds the resident demand, then we should share the excess, but when Alberta residents have to wait years to draw a tag, the demand obviously outweighs the supply.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Bowhunter102

What is your point. They pay way more to hunt. Maybe they should have to pay a trophy fee also. But they are entitled to there fair share. Are you that thick not to understand that. All have entitlement to a % of tags. You can't argue that.

Why...... are they entitled to their fair share? Or are you entitled to make a little spending money on the side?

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Why should a non resident be "entitled" to any of Alberta's resources? You make it sound like we owe those non resident hunters something. What have those non resident hunters done, for us to owe them anything? Why should we ever put non residents ahead of our own residents? We should be looking after our own residents first. If, and only if the supply exceeds the resident demand, then we should share the excess, but when Alberta residents have to wait years to draw a tag, the demand obviously outweighs the supply.

That sir is the best post of this thread.

Absolutely! If the supply exceeds the demand, I for one am happy to share, but when the demand exceeds the supply, why are any non resident tags available? That just doesn't make sense.

Oh I know, there is the money issue. Well to me, some things should not be about the money.

[roy9525]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Why should a non resident be "entitled" to any of Alberta's resources? You make it sound like we owe those non resident hunters something. What have those non resident hunters done, for us to owe them anything? Why should we ever put non residents ahead of our own residents? We should be looking after our own residents first. If, and only if the supply exceeds the resident demand, then we should share the excess, but when Alberta residents have to wait years to draw a tag, the demand obviously outweighs the supply.

I agree we owe non residents nothing especially when it means giving up opportunities for residents.

[Bowhunter102]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Why should a non resident be "entitled" to any of Alberta's resources? You make it sound like we owe those non resident hunters something. What have those non resident hunters done, for us to owe them anything? Why should we ever put non residents ahead of our own residents? We should be looking after our own residents first. If, and only if the supply exceeds the resident demand, then we should share the excess, but when Alberta residents have to wait years to draw a tag, the demand obviously outweighs the supply.

So elk what tags are you talking about? As far as I am concerned there is way more than enough to share in this province. Like I stated I disagree with any antelope tags going to nr. I also see a few other tags but all and all I think we have more than enough to share. As for entitlement according to SRD nr are entitled to 10%. This is total not just apos. That is why I said a buch of posts ago that hunter host is just as bad or worse than outfitters because over half our province is from everywhere else. So bring dad brother friends etc. That is a problem that no one talks about.

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Why...... are they entitled to their fair share? Or are you entitled to make a little spending money on the side?

let me tell you a secret. I never once said what I guide for or when I last guided. I also never said what or were I will be an outfitter. So don't worry about my money I make. It has nothing to do with this discussion. Also I rite now am on the side lines just like you as an Albertan not a guide or an outfitter. Not as much money in guiding or outfitting as all of you think.

Originally Posted by KegRiver

That sir is the best post of this thread.

Absolutely! If the supply exceeds the demand, I for one am happy to share, but when the demand exceeds the supply, why are any non resident tags available? That just doesn't make sense.

Oh I know, there is the money issue. Well to me, some things should not be about the money.

So what is fair keg? I see everybody here can't see my point. I don't know were everybody is hunting but there is crap loads of animals in this province. Way more than a lot of other places. So if there is no animals left we should just close hunting down in our province to everybody. But that ain't the case. Just lots of greedy people.

[Bowhunter102]

Originally Posted by roy9525

I agree we owe non residents nothing especially when it means giving up opportunities for residents.

Roy think of that the next time you go salmon fishing in BC or hunting wt's in sask or even cross the border to do anything. They don't owe you jack so why should you even be aloud in there province or country.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Bowhunter102

Roy think of that the next time you go salmon fishing in BC or hunting wt's in sask or even cross the border to do anything. They don't owe you jack so why should you even be aloud in there province or country.

Exactly they don't owe us jack...and it is their prerogative to limit NR in their provinces and states too.

It should be about sound management and not equal opportunity as pertains to the NR and the resident. The balance has shifted in favour of the NR hunter who can return year after year while the resident sit in the weeds for 10 or more years. You seem ok with that...because that it the piece of pie you plan on making a living out of.

How many mule deer are there in Saskatchewan? Do you think they have enough to go around by offering opportunities to NR? Darn rights they do but they choose the residents over the NR any day of the week which is how it should be.

Many of the folks who were born here in the province and have kids want to see their kids have even a fraction of the opportunity we did as kids hunting and fishing here.

I think the requirements in Alberta for resident status should get and overhaul too.... Similar to NWT and the Yukon, minimum wait times for resident status.

LC

[Bowhunter102]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Exactly they don't owe us jack...and it is their prerogative to limit NR in their provinces and states too.

It should be about sound management and not equal opportunity as pertains to the NR and the resident. The balance has shifted in favour of the NR hunter who can return year after year while the resident sit in the weeds for 10 or more years. You seem ok with that...because that it the piece of pie you plan on making a living out of.

How many mule deer are there in Saskatchewan? Do you think they have enough to go around by offering opportunities to NR? Darn rights they do but they choose the residents over the NR any day of the week which is how it should be.

Many of the folks who were born here in the province and have kids want to see their kids have even a fraction of the opportunity we did as kids hunting and fishing here.

I think the requirements in Alberta for resident status should get and overhaul too.... Similar to NWT and the Yukon, minimum wait times for resident status.

LC

I agree with the status. I also think everybody including nr should have to draw a tag for everything in this province. That way a proper number of people can harvest the proper amount of animals. that goes for rifle and archery. I also think that SRD need to do a better job and fire idiots such as Margo that is dealing with cwd. Also fund to get proper counts in all zones so they even have a clue of what there is so they can adjust numbers properly year to year. As for me having a motive I do not at all. I wont make a dime off and big game animal in our province probably ever again. I have a different venture when it comes to outfitting.

Also when it comes to sask they don't allow anybody hunt there muledeer cause they don't have enough to share. We have over double the amount of muledeer in our province then them. Also if we managed ours like we use to we would probably have four to five times the amount they do. Just cause they have trophy animals does not mean they have as much. Just prove they manage there herds better. Nr tags Don't effect that in our province IMO. So same goes to you lefty. What would you do an why and were is the actual problem? Also remember the numbers deer hunter posted are skewd to his advantage.

[Couleestalker]

Originally Posted by Bowhunter102

I also think that SRD need to do a better job and fire idiots such as Margo that is dealing with cwd.Also fund to get proper counts in all zones so they even have a clue of what there is so they can adjust numbers properly year to year.

Good luck with that, have you not heard about the deficit. Besides the ACA has the contract to do ungulate surveys. It seems there out of money too since they want to increase license fees.

[Bowhunter102]

Originally Posted by Couleestalker

Good luck with that, have you not heard about the deficit. Besides the ACA has the contract to do ungulate surveys. It seems there out of money too since they want to increase license fees.

What is a good luck? Getting rid of over payed people that don't know jack or doing counts like they use to instead of new way. Costs the same. Just one way costs way more money so nowhere gets done. Old way was way cheaper and almost Everywere was always done. So really i am iplying a way to save money and do a better job. No brained to me.

[Couleestalker]

I'm saying good luck with getting more funding to do more counts. I agree the old way was cheaper but the data wasn't as accurate either. Besides like I said, it's the ACA that does the counts.

[Bowhunter102]

Originally Posted by Couleestalker

I'm saying good luck with getting more funding to do more counts. I agree the old way was cheaper but the data wasn't as accurate either. Besides like I said, it's the ACA that does the counts.

Who is aca? Why is it dined out. We already pay biologists so what are they doing? That is there job. I would rather have a less accurate count other than no counts at all.

[Couleestalker]

Originally Posted by Bowhunter102

Who is aca? Why is it dined out. We already pay biologists so what are they doing? That is there job. I would rather have a less accurate count other than no counts at all.

Alberta Conservation Association. Check out the link, it shows what areas they or wanted to fly this year. It's not very many of them.

http://www.ab-conservation.com/go/de...veys/overview/

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by Bowhunter102

So mr deer hunter ...... I think you are just the guy skewing the info for your own benefit.

I could care less of my benefit. I am one of 65,000 people applying. If you think im doing this for only myself than you really have no clue.

Originally Posted by Bowhunter102

Heck the guy can't even respond to me cause he has no clue or is avoiding any real questions. Instead someone else bails him out claiming info I read that was from the minutes of the agmag meeting is wrong that my bud shared with me.

Feel free to post up whatever you or your bud have as this is all about getting information in front of people.

Originally Posted by Bowhunter102

Also when it comes to sask they don't allow anybody hunt there muledeer cause they don't have enough to share. We have over double the amount of muledeer in our province then them. .................... Also remember the numbers deer hunter posted are skewd to his advantage.

And Calgary alone has a greater population than the entire province of Saskatchewan.


Here is the data for 2010 which includes the landowner tags numbers.
Again based on what info I had given to me...






Thanks again to everyone who has taken the time to write a letter.

[Roughneck Country]

There is really 2 sides to this, residents who don't leave the province to hunt will never want our tags going to a NR when we are on a draw, and the outfitters / NR who want to keep things as is so they have a business / hunting opportunities here. I have to side on the giving a specified quota to Outfitters / NR for a few reasons. Primarily because I enjoy hunting elsewhere on occasion and appreciate the opportunity to do so and secondly because outfitters need a certain number of allocations to sell hunts on just to keep their business running.

I personally don't mind being on a draw when a NR can just book a hunt. If I draw it cost me the price of a tag, if a NR books a hunt it cost them thousands. I personally feel I am not loosing out and the business they bring to the province is substantial. If everything in the province was on draw I might have a differnt opinion but there are so many open seasons here I never have an issue finding something to hunt each year. Like I said before I hunt out of province occasionally and enjoy it so I think it is fair that people from other places have the opportunity to come here as well. Just my 2 cents

[roy9525]

Originally Posted by Bowhunter102

Roy think of that the next time you go salmon fishing in BC or hunting wt's in sask or even cross the border to do anything. They don't owe you jack so why should you even be aloud in there province or country.

dont fish in BC , dont hunt wt in sask. as for crossing the border or being allowed in province or country has nothng to do with this conversation.

[Huntnut]

Originally Posted by Bowhunter102

That is why I said a buch of posts ago that hunter host is just as bad or worse than outfitters because over half our province is from everywhere else. So bring dad brother friends etc.

You're comparing apples and oranges. If I want to bring my father-in-law here to hunt-he has to put in and wait for a draw just like me.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Bowhunter102

Roy think of that the next time you go salmon fishing in BC or hunting wt's in sask or even cross the border to do anything. They don't owe you jack so why should you even be aloud in there province or country.

Albertans fishing in BC or hunting WT in Sask does not preclude any BC or Sask residents from doing the same. In AB, NR are taking tags that some Albertans have waited years to obtain. I think that vast majority of people have no problem NR or outfitters having tags that are NOT governed by draws. There a lots of opportunities for NR and outfitters to hunt without participating in draws. Just like BC's salmon and Sask WT.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

There is really 2 sides to this, residents who don't leave the province to hunt will never want our tags going to a NR when we are on a draw, and the outfitters / NR who want to keep things as is so they have a business / hunting opportunities here. I have to side on the giving a specified quota to Outfitters / NR for a few reasons. Primarily because I enjoy hunting elsewhere on occasion and appreciate the opportunity to do so and secondly because outfitters need a certain number of allocations to sell hunts on just to keep their business running.

I personally don't mind being on a draw when a NR can just book a hunt. If I draw it cost me the price of a tag, if a NR books a hunt it cost them thousands. I personally feel I am not loosing out and the business they bring to the province is substantial. If everything in the province was on draw I might have a differnt opinion but there are so many open seasons here I never have an issue finding something to hunt each year. Like I said before I hunt out of province occasionally and enjoy it so I think it is fair that people from other places have the opportunity to come here as well. Just my 2 cents

Thank you for telling it like it is, without resorting to calling people greedy.
This is the heart of the matter, I come down on the other side of the fence. I resent giving up tags to NR so that a small minority who think that by limiting NR opportunities to what we have a lot of, hurts their chances of going elsewhere.

Is there any evidence that supports this line of thinking? Is there any jurisdiction that will not allow you hunt there because of protectionist policies at home?