Let's catch some cheaters!

[drake]

Let’s catch some cheaters!

First Idea:

Goal: To catch people declaring resident status in more than one province

Step 1: export to MS excel, the data base containing the name of individuals “eligible to hunt as residents” in Alberta

Step 2: export to MS excel,the data base containing the name of individuals “eligible to hunt as residents” in other provinces

Step 3: using the “vlookup” formula in MS excel, determine who is declaring dual residency.

Step 4: charge suspected individuals with fraud

Step 5: win trial and allocate money collected from fines to conservation

Second Idea:
Goal: To catch ineligible license holders and draw applicants

Step 1: export to MS excel the data base containing the name of individuals “eligible to hunt as residents” in Alberta

Step 2: export to MS excel the data base containing the name of individuals who have successfully completed Hunters Ed in Alberta or elsewhere or held a hunting license in another jurisdiction

Step 3: using the “vlookup” formula in MS excel, determine who doesn’t fit the “eligible to hunt” definition

Step 4: charge suspected individuals with fraud

Step 5: win trial and allocate money collected from fines to conservation


I’m no Alfred Einstein but If I was given the right data I could complete this analysis for the government in under 10 minutes.

Anyone else have any ideas on how to catch the cheaters? Are you or members of your family committing fraud?

[A Sittn Duck]

Do you have shares in MS excel???

All joking aside, good idea

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by drake

Step 1: export to MS excel, the data base containing the name of individuals “eligible to hunt as residents” in Alberta

So you find a Joe Smith in Alberta and a Joe Smith in Ontario... and then? How many millions of $ and how much privacy are you going to breach doing investigations based on two similar names showing up on lists?

Originally Posted by drake

Step 2: export to MS excel the data base containing the name of individuals who have successfully completed Hunters Ed in Alberta or elsewhere or held a hunting license in another jurisdiction

So you have found hunter ed records from 40 years ago? or old license records from other jurisdictions decades old?

I don't advocate having various governments share and pore over confidential information on the off chance of catching someone with two hunting licenses. Way overkill.

[drake]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

So you find a Joe Smith in Alberta and a Joe Smith in Ontario... and then? How many millions of $ and how much privacy are you going to breach doing investigations based on two similar names showing up on lists?


So you have found hunter ed records from 40 years ago? or old license records from other jurisdictions decades old?

I don't advocate having various governments share and pore over confidential information on the off chance of catching someone with two hunting licenses. Way overkill.

Point 1: police investigations utilize all kinds of personal records everyday.

Point 2: It is the responsibility of the accused to prove he has held a licence or completed a hunter ed course. An investigation could start with a letter requesting such information

[lake side]

I'm all for it but a good start to this whole problem would be to have a 6 month waiting period after you establish residency. (Military exempt).

L.S.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by drake

Point 1: police investigations utilize all kinds of personal records everyday.

Point 2: It is the responsibility of the accused to prove he has held a licence or completed a hunter ed course. An investigation could start with a letter requesting such information

These two actions will cost immense amounts of money. Ever time there are two Joe Smiths on the list you are going to initiate an investigation. What is your estimate of the actual number of cheaters? What's the cost benefit?

And as to your "point 2". it is not the responsibility of the "accused" to clear himself. It's the responsiblity of the State to prove guilt. No judge would ever approve warrants based on "Well there is another Joe Smith in Ontario".

[Mark215]

I couldn't disagree more with your tactics, My full name is Mark Andrew Smith…lets think about that for a minute…I cannot go to the DMV without having to give my address, social insurance number, date of birth, and blood type. and thats only provincial. When i get pulled over driving by the RCMP its a 45 minute ordeal MIN because there is another Mark Andrew Smith that was born THE SAME DAY as me who has got warrants out for his arrest. Thankfully we live in Canada where we are innocent until proven guilty as opposed to your backwards way of thinking.

[CNP]

What data bases?

There are provisions for a person to declare AB residency for the purposes of hunting when that same person is resident in another province. It's is the regs.

Data base of those who have had Hunter Safety trg? Surely this data base if it exists is not reliable. I had Hunter training when I was a teenager circa 1970 in ON. My name is going to be on a data base as having completed a Hunter Trg course? Based on what input?

The data, being incomplete, being corrupt itself, could not justify the effort or the embarrassment of accusing someone of being a cheat.

[lake side]

So Oko, are you saying just to let things go...there's no problem? Do you have an idea how to curb the problem or should we just ignore it.

I myself am unsure of how to handle it but I would be willing to throw some cash at the idea.

L.S.

[albertadeer]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

These two actions will cost immense amounts of money. Ever time there are two Joe Smiths on the list you are going to initiate an investigation. What is your estimate of the actual number of cheaters? What's the cost benefit?

And as to your "point 2". it is not the responsibility of the "accused" to clear himself. It's the responsiblity of the State to prove guilt. No judge would ever approve warrants based on "Well there is another Joe Smith in Ontario".

I think you watch to much tv your not innocent until proven guiltly. Your guilty unless proven innocent. His ideas are better than your negatives. I'm all for it, though I think if they were found guilty they should lose hunting rights for life Canada wide.


It wouldn't be hard to do at all, but our wildlife isn't worth that much effort to our government.

[drake]

Originally Posted by Mark215

I couldn't disagree more with your tactics, My full name is Mark Andrew Smith…lets think about that for a minute…I cannot go to the DMV without having to give my address, social insurance number, date of birth, and blood type. and thats only provincial. When i get pulled over driving by the RCMP its a 45 minute ordeal MIN because there is another Mark Andrew Smith that was born THE SAME DAY as me who has got warrants out for his arrest. Thankfully we live in Canada where we are innocent until proven guilty as opposed to your backwards way of thinking.

there will no doubt be some "low hanging fruit"......we will leave Mark andrew Smiths of the world to round two of the investigation

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by lake side

So Oko, are you saying just to let things go...there's no problem? Do you have an idea how to curb the problem or should we just ignore it.

I myself am unsure of how to handle it but I would be willing to throw some cash at the idea.

L.S.

Understand, I'm not in favour of cheaters and support trying to catch them. I just don't think you use a sledgehammer to kill a fly. If you are going to have governments share personal confidential information to catch hunting license violators, might as well do it for everything else. We don't really need any privacy, do we? Shall we let police forces (yes, the good old RCMP) have unfettered access to everything? Tax returns, medical records, all of it. Bring back the long gun registry. That will be useful to catch people who have guns while under suspension.

I guess I'm just aghast at how many people want to relinquish their freedom and privacy and give unfettered access to the state/police to everything to catch some theoretical large number of minor law breakers. Jeeze, let's implant gps in everyone to catch jaywalkers. LOL

[BigRackLover]

Originally Posted by drake

there will no doubt be some "low hanging fruit"......we will leave Mark andrew Smiths of the world to round two of the investigation

Your bang on Drake. You just need the data. Good luck with that.

[Muckwa]

Really get a life.

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by drake

Let’s catch some cheaters!

First Idea:

Goal: To catch people declaring resident status in more than one province

Step 1: export to MS excel, the data base containing the name of individuals “eligible to hunt as residents” in Alberta

Step 2: export to MS excel,the data base containing the name of individuals “eligible to hunt as residents” in other provinces

Step 3: using the “vlookup” formula in MS excel, determine who is declaring dual residency.

Step 4: charge suspected individuals with fraud

Step 5: win trial and allocate money collected from fines to conservation

Second Idea:
Goal: To catch ineligible license holders and draw applicants

Step 1: export to MS excel the data base containing the name of individuals “eligible to hunt as residents” in Alberta

Step 2: export to MS excel the data base containing the name of individuals who have successfully completed Hunters Ed in Alberta or elsewhere or held a hunting license in another jurisdiction

Step 3: using the “vlookup” formula in MS excel, determine who doesn’t fit the “eligible to hunt” definition

Step 4: charge suspected individuals with fraud

Step 5: win trial and allocate money collected from fines to conservation


I’m no Alfred Einstein but If I was given the right data I could complete this analysis for the government in under 10 minutes.

Anyone else have any ideas on how to catch the cheaters? Are you or members of your family committing fraud?

I like your first idea. Shouldn't be to hard to find out if someones is hunting 2 different provinces and claiming residency in both. I don't like the second idea. A lot of older people don't have a record of a hunters training certificate and I don't think they should be punished because of something that wasn't required back in the day.

[casual observer]

Your idea has a whole bunch of merit, yet as pointed out has its perils as well. With just a slight tweaking though, it could very well be a fairly simple solution to a fairly large problem. It is sad to say though that the governing body in this fine province quite simply doesn't give a fecal deposit. If they cared at all, the definition of resident could be changed in less time and have more immediate impact. I do applaud you though for caring at all and am not surprised by those crapping on it while providing zero input to better things here inAlberta. That's the AO way though, whine cry and snivel and nitpick those willing to stand up and make a difference. If there were more like you and less like them, Alberta would be a better place.

It does make you wonder though doesn't it? How many nitpickers in this thread are double dipping themselves?

[Toole200]

There are situations where you can hunt as a "resident" in two provinces. I live in Alberta and have for 4 years, and hunt and fish here as a "resident". I am also allowed to hunt and fish as a "resident" in Nova Scotia because I own a summer home there and pay residential taxes. And yes, I have cleared this with ESRD and the Nova Scotia Department of Natural Resources.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by lake side

So Oko, are you saying just to let things go...there's no problem? Do you have an idea how to curb the problem or should we just ignore it.

I myself am unsure of how to handle it but I would be willing to throw some cash at the idea.

L.S.

There is a problem? Evidence of a problem? If there is evidence then why isn't it being investigated? This thing is not an investigation; the data is not available at the Province of AB level and cannot be shared by other provinces unless there is a real investigation on a real person vs implying that everyone is a suspect of a yet to be confirmed crime. You really want to throw money at this? I believe Drake wants the province to fund this

[waterninja]

Don't see the plus side from the govt's. point of view. A person claiming residency in 2 provinces and buying liscences/tags in 2 provinces is not only spending money on tags etc. in one or both provinces but also paying taxes in both provinces. Govt. is double dipping! Why mess with that?

[wildside2014]

Originally Posted by ehntr

There is a problem? Evidence of a problem? If there is evidence then why isn't it being investigated? This thing is not an investigation; the data is not available at the Province of AB level and cannot be shared by other provinces unless there is a real investigation on a real person vs implying that everyone is a suspect of a yet to be confirmed crime. You really want to throw money at this? I believe Drake wants the province to fund this

I don't think you would need to do one massive sweep of an entire national list of outdoorsman. I would say narrow it down to select provinces for the initial stages. Provinces that we know send an influx of people over here for say....oilfield work. Id be happy with the province funding it absolutely. Id even be happier if I paid an extra few bucks towards licensing to see it happen.

[drake]

Originally Posted by Toole200

There are situations where you can hunt as a "resident" in two provinces. I live in Alberta and have for 4 years, and hunt and fish here as a "resident". I am also allowed to hunt and fish as a "resident" in Nova Scotia because I own a summer home there and pay residential taxes. And yes, I have cleared this with ESRD and the Nova Scotia Department of Natural Resources.

of course you do!

[Mark215]

double dipping? seriously? It truly amazes me how quick people are to judge and accuse others of wrong doing. I for one don't have the time or funds to hunt in any more than one province, with scouting and such. I think there are bigger concerns for fish and wildlife officers to investigate such as poachers and people getting their wives and girlfriends to buy tags and filling those for them.

Speaking to giving up rights and freedoms i agree that we need to fight to hold on to every freedom we have. Don't you think Harper would love to have access to that kind of information freely? why don't we get rid of the entire warrant system while we are at it and let police search our homes and workplaces at will? I for one have got nothing to hide but my stance says its simply none of their business. if you get a chance go to www.TED.com and watch "Malte Spitz: your phone company is watching"

[wildside2014]

Originally Posted by Toole200

There are situations where you can hunt as a "resident" in two provinces. I live in Alberta and have for 4 years, and hunt and fish here as a "resident". I am also allowed to hunt and fish as a "resident" in Nova Scotia because I own a summer home there and pay residential taxes. And yes, I have cleared this with ESRD and the Nova Scotia Department of Natural Resources.

and this is exactly what should be stopped.

[abhunter8]

Originally Posted by casual observer

Your idea has a whole bunch of merit, yet as pointed out has its perils as well. With just a slight tweaking though, it could very well be a fairly simple solution to a fairly large problem. It is sad to say though that the governing body in this fine province quite simply doesn't give a fecal deposit. If they cared at all, the definition of resident could be changed in less time and have more immediate impact. I do applaud you though for caring at all and am not surprised by those crapping on it while providing zero input to better things here inAlberta. That's the AO way though, whine cry and snivel and nitpick those willing to stand up and make a difference. If there were more like you and less like them, Alberta would be a better place.

It does make you wonder though doesn't it? How many nitpickers in this thread are double dipping themselves?

x2. Very well said, I think with some tweaking it is a very good idea and quite easily done. Better to do something than sit back and complain and do nothing! With regards to having 2 Mark Smith's... last I checked our information is all tied to a Win number and to get a win number we have DL numbers attached. I am thinking their is a pretty simple way to determine between 2 Mark Smith's.

[wildside2014]

Originally Posted by casual observer

Your idea has a whole bunch of merit, yet as pointed out has its perils as well. With just a slight tweaking though, it could very well be a fairly simple solution to a fairly large problem. It is sad to say though that the governing body in this fine province quite simply doesn't give a fecal deposit. If they cared at all, the definition of resident could be changed in less time and have more immediate impact. I do applaud you though for caring at all and am not surprised by those crapping on it while providing zero input to better things here inAlberta. That's the AO way though, whine cry and snivel and nitpick those willing to stand up and make a difference. If there were more like you and less like them, Alberta would be a better place.

It does make you wonder though doesn't it? How many nitpickers in this thread are double dipping themselves?

very well said

[hunterfisher]

Originally Posted by drake

Let’s catch some cheaters!

First Idea:

Goal: To catch people declaring resident status in more than one province

Step 1: export to MS excel, the data base containing the name of individuals “eligible to hunt as residents” in Alberta

Step 2: export to MS excel,the data base containing the name of individuals “eligible to hunt as residents” in other provinces

Step 3: using the “vlookup” formula in MS excel, determine who is declaring dual residency.

Step 4: charge suspected individuals with fraud

Step 5: win trial and allocate money collected from fines to conservation

Second Idea:
Goal: To catch ineligible license holders and draw applicants

Step 1: export to MS excel the data base containing the name of individuals “eligible to hunt as residents” in Alberta

Step 2: export to MS excel the data base containing the name of individuals who have successfully completed Hunters Ed in Alberta or elsewhere or held a hunting license in another jurisdiction

Step 3: using the “vlookup” formula in MS excel, determine who doesn’t fit the “eligible to hunt” definition

Step 4: charge suspected individuals with fraud

Step 5: win trial and allocate money collected from fines to conservation


I’m no Alfred Einstein but If I was given the right data I could complete this analysis for the government in under 10 minutes.

Anyone else have any ideas on how to catch the cheaters? Are you or members of your family committing fraud?

Hate to hear people doing anything illegal and no doubt there's probably more illegal stuff happening hear from residents then non residents. Being from the east as I'm sure your aware from previous thread discussions Drake someone somehow has really ****ed you off on this topic and unfortunately it seems to have tainted your views on the outside community as a whole. I wouldn't like to see people hunting all over as do some people who host shows and the like.

That there is something you need to address with the government unless Harper is in this forum. My two cents.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by abhunter8

x2. Very well said, I think with some tweaking it is a very good idea and quite easily done. Better to do something than sit back and complain and do nothing! With regards to having 2 Mark Smith's... last I checked our information is all tied to a Win number and to get a win number we have DL numbers attached. I am thinking their is a pretty simple way to determine between 2 Mark Smith's.

I don't think you understand where the "data" would have to come from. AB does not have the data it would take to initiate this. An AB WIN or DL number doesn't get you the data from every other province. This is just a fishing expedition not an investigation. In order for there to be an investigation there should be evidence of a crime. What crime?

[Mike_W]

Drake I dont know how old you are but I completed my hunters education when I was 14 (I read the book and challenged the course and passed).
The test was wrote at the fish and wildlife office in Edmonton that was 16 years ago. I do not have the certificate any longer and really don't know if fish and wildlife or other places offering the course keep records of certificate of completion. Would you be able to provide proof?
I think they have made a step in the right direction and going forward things will improve.

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by albertadeer

I think you watch to much tv your not innocent until proven guiltly. Your guilty unless proven innocent. His ideas are better than your negatives. I'm all for it, though I think if they were found guilty they should lose hunting rights for life Canada wide.

F'iing brilliant! According to you I should be banned from hunting in Canada.

I'm guilty until I prove my self innocent and I can't do that because the proof doesn't exit any more. The licence I had in SK (circa 1977) was a piece of waxed paper with a string attached to it. There was no copy, there was no record kept and the last time I saw the licence I was tying to a deer.

Twisted Canuck, you should be taking notes here. This is a much better attempt at a wind up.

ARG

[nube]

I like a lot of your Ideas Drake. The obvious thing I have noticed as well as many others is the influx of out of province hunters. Not sure how they just walk in here and start hunting. This forum also is pure proof of it all with all the roomy questions of obvious out of province people. I have been stomped on before for saying how I really feel about it and then in turn laugh at those of you that are tired of waiting 10 years to go shoot an antelope or a moose that snickered at my remarks. This province is going to fall apart hunting wise in the next 10 years and it has just began. People like Drake are only going to help it take longer to fall apart.