anyone install furnaces?

[Bushmonkey]

I'd like to ask you a couple quick questions please

[JTF]

shoot buddy

[Bushmonkey]

I'll pm you

[dewalt18]

Sure do. . .

[220swifty]

Why not ask publicly? Might answer a question for the next guy in your shoes.

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by 220swifty

Why not ask publicly? Might answer a question for the next guy in your shoes.

Agreed, it's not exactly a 'cloak & dagger' topic requiring the upmost secrecy, and then it's out there for everyone's benefit. Being an engineering topic there's little for people to argue about too, though some layman might pop in and say 'it's just the thermocouple', though that's easily dispelled by the pro's.

Edit: OP PM'd an answer that reasonably explained his discretion. It is just for HVAC professionals to answer.

[RBI]

Ok , while we're talking furnaces , my question is this ... while looking into getting a new furnace for our family cabin , we learn that a high eff furnace creates condensation , and therefore requires access to a drain .
A furnace guy in Sundre told Dad that it would create about 2 1/2 gallons per day .

I'm thinking Dad heard him wrong . I can't imagine that it could produce that much water in a day , I assume that it would be , more like a month .

Does anybody know the proper answer ? ( furnace would be about 70 BTU )

Thanks RBI

[artie]

My moms house does not have a basement floor drain so the furnace installer hooked a little pump to the furnace that pumps the water that the furnace produces to the sewer system.

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by RBI

Ok , while we're talking furnaces , my question is this ... while looking into getting a new furnace for our family cabin , we learn that a high eff furnace creates condensation , and therefore requires access to a drain .
A furnace guy in Sundre told Dad that it would create about 2 1/2 gallons per day .

I'm thinking Dad heard him wrong . I can't imagine that it could produce that much water in a day , I assume that it would be , more like a month .

Does anybody know the proper answer ? ( furnace would be about 70 BTU )

Thanks RBI

You'd be surprised how much condensate is produced, it comes out at a steady trickle. The thing with furnace and boiler condensate is that it's mildly acidic and can corrode out the bottom of cast iron or concrete sewer pipe, and can negatively effect the biological action in a septic tank. There are chambers with neutralizing agent (limestone) that a professional will install into the condensate discharge line when such concerns exist. For instance these are a must on a high-rise tower with condensing boilers, imagine dissolving pinhole leaks into 20 stories of the cast iron sewer stack from the penthouse boiler room!

[RBI]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

You'd be surprised how much condensate is produced, it comes out at a steady trickle. The thing with furnace and boiler condensate is that it's mildly acidic and can corrode out the bottom of cast iron or concrete sewer pipe, and can negatively effect the biological action in a septic tank. There are chambers with neutralizing agent (limestone) that a professional will install into the condensate discharge line when such concerns exist. For instance these are a must on a high-rise tower with condensing boilers, imagine dissolving pinhole leaks into 20 stories of the cast iron sewer stack from the penthouse boiler room!

Interesting to know , thanks Caber .

Ok , next question is this ... We shut down the cabin from mid Oct to mid May , is /would there be any problem with the furnace during the freeze/thaw during these times ?

Is there something we would need to do to winterize it ?

Again thanks RBI

[Justanotherbuck2]

Condensate levels vary depends on humidity levels in the home, BTU value of furnace and efficiency, amount of use etc., we advise customers that 6 - 10 gallons per day is not unusual. I have seen guys just dump them outside and that is such a bad idea as it creates a large pool that freezes and can be a hazard, or freeze the drain line that causes the furnace to flood into itself which causes many problems. I had one clown told the customer he would not need a floor drain but just empty the five gallon pale when needed that he put the drain into! The customer was draining this daily and sometimes more! No one can tell you exactly how much condensate you will have but let me assure you it will be significant. In a cabin I would recommend you get a really good reconditioned mid efficient furnace if you can find one. I would never recommend this option in a new home, but for a weekend place sure.

[Justanotherbuck2]

In winter you would need to drain and blow out your condensate traps not a real huge task but definitely essential.

[RBI]

Originally Posted by Justanotherbuck2

Condensate levels vary depends on humidity levels in the home, BTU value of furnace and efficiency, amount of use etc., we advise customers that 6 - 10 gallons per day is not unusual. I have seen guys just dump them outside and that is such a bad idea as it creates a large pool that freezes and can be a hazard, or freeze the drain line that causes the furnace to flood into itself which causes many problems. I had one clown told the customer he would not need a floor drain but just empty the five gallon pale when needed that he put the drain into! The customer was draining this daily and sometimes more! No one can tell you exactly how much condensate you will have but let me assure you it will be significant. In a cabin I would recommend you get a really good reconditioned mid efficient furnace if you can find one. I would never recommend this option in a new home, but for a weekend place sure.

Found a place here in Calgary that had a demo model ( ran in their showroom ) , thought that was going to work out great ....until the $6000.00 installed quote .

Have had a quote of new high eff , installed in about the $ 4300.00 .

Dad says that he'd prefer the mid eff , but certainly not at that price .

Thanks RBI

[RBI]

while I'm on a roll , here's one more question ... a drain line , at this time there is no place to drain a furnace , however , there is a washing machine ( drain ) about 4' -5' away from the furnace .

It wouldn't be to much of a problem to tie into that drain ( in the crawl space ) , depending on what kind of drop below the floor , the wash mach has before it goes horizontal . Worst case ( I hope ) is that I might have to run a longer line to tie into a different pipe .

I'm picturing that this would require a floor drain ? , p-trap , and 1 1/2 " or 2 " abs to the tie in .

But , this is just guessing at this point .

Thanks RBI

[Big Grey Wolf]

If you want a low cost alternative for about $1k install a garage heater in your utility room with a return grill on the door. It really heats a cold cabin in minutes, no need for water vent as all moisture goes up metal chimney.
PS the ABS pipe tie in to the washer sewer line should work as well.

[Justanotherbuck2]

You can use a low cost condensate pump, available for under $100.00 at a lot of hardware stores or through your HVAC supplier, we use them all the time lift the condensate up through the ceiling space and to an alternate location, works on a float switch when the small reservoir fills up, the float switch engages and pumps out the condensate to in your case your laundry drain.

[Justanotherbuck2]

Depending on the size of your cabin perhaps placing a Williams wall furnace and or a free standing gas fireplace with room thermostat may be a alternative to a ducted system. The beauty of free standing Nat. Gas or Propane heaters is they require no electricity, better suited for smaller cabins. A couple of ceiling fans increases the efficiency and enables a free standing model to heat and area even if there are a few rooms that are separate from the main area.

[Justanotherbuck2]

Does your cabin have a basement under it and what is the square footage, I may be able to provide you with a Mid eff. I have a couple. I have a nearly new 60,000 btu upflow furnace I purchased several years ago, it was only used for a year and the owner tore down his house and built a new one, he had just changed the furnace so he kept it in his garage until he was retiring and moving then he sold it. I had a plan to use it in a fully ducted system in my neighbours shop with apartment loft but we went a different route. Was the ridicules $6000.00 price because of location?

[moosemad]

Anyone know this one? My 2 year old Lennox hi efficiency furnace has been acting up lately. The fan starts, pilot lights then a couple of minutes later it shuts down, no heat. I pulled out the thermocouple and heat sensor, cleaned them up and reinstalled. Still happening maybe once or twice a week. The flashing code the first time was code # 10, pressure switch opened 5 times during 1 heat demand. Since then I get a code # 9, pressure switch failed to open or close during heat demand.
If I shut down the main power for a minute then back on it usually works good again. Furnace repair wants $180 just to come look at it, warrenty only covers parts.
Wondering if I should replace the pressure switch or is something else causing the problem.

[Thunderr]

Originally Posted by moosemad

Anyone know this one? My 2 year old Lennox hi efficiency furnace has been acting up lately. The fan starts, pilot lights then a couple of minutes later it shuts down, no heat. I pulled out the thermocouple and heat sensor, cleaned them up and reinstalled. Still happening maybe once or twice a week. The flashing code the first time was code # 10, pressure switch opened 5 times during 1 heat demand. Since then I get a code # 9, pressure switch failed to open or close during heat demand.
If I shut down the main power for a minute then back on it usually works good again. Furnace repair wants $180 just to come look at it, warrenty only covers parts.
Wondering if I should replace the pressure switch or is something else causing the problem.

Same symptoms mine had, turned out to be the inducer motor.

[dewalt18]

Could be a number of things, inducer fan being one of them. Take a few minutes and check the vent and combustion piping for any blockages, including any sags. The should have grade all the way back to the furnace, especially the vent. Also check check the condensate drain for any blockages as well.

Knowing the model would help too

[Dynamic]

Originally Posted by moosemad

Anyone know this one? My 2 year old Lennox hi efficiency furnace has been acting up lately. The fan starts, pilot lights then a couple of minutes later it shuts down, no heat. I pulled out the thermocouple and heat sensor, cleaned them up and reinstalled. Still happening maybe once or twice a week. The flashing code the first time was code # 10, pressure switch opened 5 times during 1 heat demand. Since then I get a code # 9, pressure switch failed to open or close during heat demand.
If I shut down the main power for a minute then back on it usually works good again. Furnace repair wants $180 just to come look at it, warrenty only covers parts.
Wondering if I should replace the pressure switch or is something else causing the problem.

I had the exact same problem and it was the pressure switch. It actually happened 3 times for me and it seemed the contacts inside my pressure switch corroded. For whatever reason it was getting wet. I shimmed my furnace like the installation manual said and so far good for over a year. The pressure switch is only 30 bucks and takes 3 minutes to change so I now keep a spare pressure switch.

[moosemad]

Some good tips guys, thanks. I'll do some more trouble shooting.

[Justanotherbuck2]

Like all Manufactures Lennox uses a company out of Costa Rica to manufacturer their pressure switches
this has proven to be a large industry problem with these inferior switches. Lennox is now using Honeywell replacements a bit more money but so far seem to be a much better quality. Although you may have other problems that are causing the pressure switch to fail it would not be a stretch to say this may be your lead problem. Remember there are thousands of pressure switches and each one is specific to your model and brand of furnace, they are not generic! DO NOT blow into them like some of the Utube techies throw out there! More people blame a pressure switch failure but it is their own actions that damaged it. If your Lennox is only 2 years old it is still under parts warranty ( generally ten years now) and depending on installer likely under labour warranty as well. You should bring in your installing shop to do repairs and troubleshooting.

[johnwood]

Originally Posted by Dynamic

I had the exact same problem and it was the pressure switch. It actually happened 3 times for me and it seemed the contacts inside my pressure switch corroded. For whatever reason it was getting wet. I shimmed my furnace like the installation manual said and so far good for over a year. The pressure switch is only 30 bucks and takes 3 minutes to change so I now keep a spare pressure switch.

same thing here, for 30 bucks it's just worth having a spare.

[moosemad]

Originally Posted by johnwood

same thing here, for 30 bucks it's just worth having a spare.

Thanks for all the advice guys, turned out to be the pressure switch, like said above low quality design.