New Bow Strings

[HoytAlpha35]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

WBS does it not for a marketing ploy...but because they can do it...and do it so it works for quaility string.s..other points are transparent servings...installed colored loops...peep markers..."Tri-splined strings" custom serving on cam roll over...no serving seperation...PRICE is on par for stock strings but with quaility...strings made so close to bow specs its scrary...makes my work easier...on & on...



All my personal bows have WBS out of the box or on first string change...





Neil

If it's not a a way to market what is it? Strings are so simple, companies have to find more creative ways to market than say a bow by promoting there fancy " proprietary processes" Transparent servings are great on bright strings or high contrast. Eventually they'll have a tendency to turn cloudy.

Curious what string brands you have used other than Scorpion, WBS, and Mathews stockers? I know you have mentioned previously you have used them all..... There's a ton of good custom builders. Scorpion and Zebras aren't really a high comparison standard.

[kujoseto]

I once peed over an 8' wind break. I was standing on the ground and about 9 or 10 years old. My brother was there as a witness. True story! Seriously...that's actually a true story. My family laughs about it to this day.

It might be convincing that you were enlightened on what is better if you explained the same to us without just stating we're wrong, that it's "100% impossible". How were you properly educated? Can you properly educate us? How is it 100% impossible? I don't think anyone's looking for an argument. If you're so bent out of shape with our ignorance on the matter, please inform us as we're willing to learn. Rather than wait for us to state the strings we've used so you can tell us they all suck, why not inform us what you've used that are better and the ones that aren't.

[HoytAlpha35]

Originally Posted by kujoseto

I once peed over an 8' wind break. I was standing on the ground and about 9 or 10 years old. My brother was there as a witness. True story! Seriously...that's actually a true story. My family laughs about it to this day.



It might be convincing that you were enlightened on what is better if you explained the same to us without just stating we're wrong, that it's "100% impossible". How were you properly educated? Can you properly educate us? How is it 100% impossible? I don't think anyone's looking for an argument. If you're so bent out of shape with our ignorance on the matter, please inform us as we're willing to learn. Rather than wait for us to state the strings we've used so you can tell us they all suck, why not inform us what you've used that are better and the ones that aren't.

Was it in a 90 mph wind?

I used one set of WC and a couple WBS, and haven't bought a set since. Scorpions, cheap out on serving, mostly a 2-ply twisted which won't hold up on aggressive bows. Prime were solid when they used halo servings, but have switched to bcy 2X this year and aren't holding up. The last couple years of Hoyt's are much better. ABB on the PSE are a stock string not awesome not awful.

Best advise I can give is use a stable material which is going to be a Vectran Blend. Brownell Fury is working good for lots of people, straight Dyneema, but solid on the bow and different temperature conditions.

[kujoseto]

Hahaha, not that much wind. I've learned the hard way not to pee directly down wind too.

Ok, so I see what material you're suggesting, but I'm not clear on what is different between wbs and the blends or straight dyneema you refer to. Any recommended companies or string makers? (especially in Alberta)
Thanks

[HoytAlpha35]

Originally Posted by kujoseto

Hahaha, not that much wind. I've learned the hard way not to pee directly down wind too.

Ok, so I see what material you're suggesting, but I'm not clear on what is different between wbs and the blends or straight dyneema you refer to. Any recommended companies or string makers? (especially in Alberta)
Thanks

There stuff use to be 8125/8190. Packaging on a set I saw recently was BCY X. If that's the case for all there stuff that's good as your starting point is a stable base material.

There are a few guys I know building, but I think they build through shops. The best one I know in central alberta, not sure how much he does anymore. Sorry can't help with a builder.

[kujoseto]

Thanks. Lots of new information for a noob like myself.
From a physics standpoint, the 1200 lbs pre-stretch seems like it would aid in stabilizing. If you stretch slightly over 300 to stabilize, wouldn't stretching beyond that sort of "max out" the creep before it's installed on a bow where it won't see forces strong enough creep any further?
I guess I'll know when I shoot my new wbs how it creeps. I noticed enough stretching in my factory strings from Bowtech (octane?) that after about 700 shots my 73.8 lbs shifted down to 69 or so and accuracy went crazy out.

[FallAirFever]

When it comes time for a new string my APA M7 and I will be making a trip to see Neil. It will get a set of Worlds Best or 60x with some flo green in them.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by HoytAlpha35

If it's not a a way to market what is it? Strings are so simple, companies have to find more creative ways to market than say a bow by promoting there fancy " proprietary processes" Transparent servings are great on bright strings or high contrast. Eventually they'll have a tendency to turn cloudy.

Curious what string brands you have used other than Scorpion, WBS, and Mathews stockers? I know you have mentioned previously you have used them all..... There's a ton of good custom builders. Scorpion and Zebras aren't really a high comparison standard.

Having tuned just about every bow commercially made...you asked...Hoyt/Fuse were some of the worst...We have winners/ ABS/FUSE/Zebra/Baracuda....and other xustom strings I won't mention...since your on such a hell bend mission to slam one bowhunters opinion...I will say out loud your Hoyt are the worst...for some of the reasons your thinking your such a Pro on...

I'm not sure what your problem is...but my opinion is opinion ...I will respect yours....you made your point...lay off
Sorry I am just trying to help out other bowhunters with what works and not plugging your strings...
Thank you
Neil

[HoytAlpha35]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

Having tuned just about every bow commercially made...you asked...Hoyt/Fuse were some of the worst...We have winners/ ABS/FUSE/Zebra/Baracuda....and other xustom strings I won't mention...since your on such a hell bend mission to slam one bowhunters opinion...I will say out loud your Hoyt are the worst...for some of the reasons your thinking your such a Pro on...



I'm not sure what your problem is...but my opinion is opinion ...I will respect yours....you made your point...lay off

Sorry I am just trying to help out other bowhunters with what works and not plugging your strings...

Thank you

Neil

Yeah I can get carried away on this topic. lol. My apologies. It such a crucial aspect. We're talk 1/16" or less on the length of a string or cable than can effect the shot. You get into certain temperature conditions and it'll effect the performance and point if impact. To me the less that is needed to do to the material to make it stable and creep free means it more stable to begin with and is a better choice.

This is from DSM on creep. Different application but result is the same. Dyneema Or UHMPE Ultra High Molecular Polyethylene creeps by nature. It's just part of its chemical makeup. 8190, 8125 fall into this category. BCY even states that 8190 had the lowest creep ever for a Dyneema. Which means it still creeps...
http://www.dsm.com/products/dyneema/...ore/creep.html

Vectran is the stabilizing material in 452X, trophy, and X. Blends are 66% sk75 Dyneema , 33% Vectran. For X it's. 83% sk90 Dyneema and 17% Vectran. The experts that make this stuff for a living determine that's what's needed to be stable.

http://www.vectranfiber.com/ has lots of information.

With a straight Dyneema IMO extra procedures and possibly heat of some sort (which is so bad for dyneema) are necessary to get some stability. Those same procedures with a Vectran will breakdown the material and reduce it's long term stability.

Now to throw this all for a Loop Brownell has developed procedures in the construction of there straight Dyneema materials to get awesome stability, it impressive.

I'm not a hoyt guy by an means just a name from when I started bowhunying. Had an Alphamax 35 in '09, they went to a roller guard and they went buy buy, plus have you seen the prices? There atrocious hard to believe that much mark-up from the US. still have that bow thought. Shot prime, Mathews and since and house is full of pse right now. I could do some serious plugging for them

Fuse of past built with a sk75 base weren't good. After an elk hunt my bow was so out of time it required a complete go over. And those were built with 700lbs of pre-stretch as they promoted. Was the material to blame or the build? I'm saying the string material. The latest ones built with BCY X are solid.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by HoytAlpha35

Yeah I can get carried away on this topic. lol. My apologies. It such a crucial aspect. We're talk 1/16" or less on the length of a string or cable than can effect the shot. You get into certain temperature conditions and it'll effect the performance and point if impact. To me the less that is needed to do to the material to make it stable and creep free means it more stable to begin with and is a better choice.

This is from DSM on creep. Different application but result is the same. Dyneema Or UHMPE Ultra High Molecular Polyethylene creeps by nature. It's just part of its chemical makeup. 8190, 8125 fall into this category. BCY even states that 8190 had the lowest creep ever for a Dyneema. Which means it still creeps...
http://www.dsm.com/products/dyneema/...ore/creep.html

Vectran is the stabilizing material in 452X, trophy, and X. Blends are 66% sk75 Dyneema , 33% Vectran. For X it's. 83% sk90 Dyneema and 17% Vectran. The experts that make this stuff for a living determine that's what's needed to be stable.

http://www.vectranfiber.com/ has lots of information.

With a straight Dyneema IMO extra procedures and possibly heat of some sort (which is so bad for dyneema) are necessary to get some stability. Those same procedures with a Vectran will breakdown the material and reduce it's long term stability.

Now to throw this all for a Loop Brownell has developed procedures in the construction of there straight Dyneema materials to get awesome stability, it impressive.

I'm not a hoyt guy by an means just a name from when I started bowhunying. Had an Alphamax 35 in '09, they went to a roller guard and they went buy buy, plus have you seen the prices? There atrocious hard to believe that much mark-up from the US. still have that bow thought. Shot prime, Mathews and since and house is full of pse right now. I could do some serious plugging for them

Fuse of past built with a sk75 base weren't good. After an elk hunt my bow was so out of time it required a complete go over. And those were built with 700lbs of pre-stretch as they promoted. Was the material to blame or the build? I'm saying the string material. The latest ones built with BCY X are solid.

And My apologies also for the tone...I am By all means no expert or pro on building bow strings...however being a bowhunter and installing strings for bowhunters I do know what works with the least stretch [settlement] issues of failures... WBS hands down have had the least issues of all stock bow stings combined...

I appreciate your knowledge and opinion...not being a Pro string builder I do not know all the technology or tolerance specs...

But I invite you to talk to ALLAN at WBS Phone: 306-628-3992
Allan will more than happy to discuss string building technology with you...he is pleasent and very knowledgeable to talk too...you wont regret it!!!

Neil

[backyard]

i'm on the fence on wbs or 60x custom I put a 60x on my Mathews but don't shoot it much but my rpm I have shot lots and this factory one is junk... 60x custom wont put speed weights on but wbs will umm

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by rpm360

i'm on the fence on wbs or 60x custom I put a 60x on my Mathews but don't shoot it much but my rpm I have shot lots and this factory one is junk... 60x custom wont put speed weights on but wbs will umm

Due to the litigious society in the US, 60X and many other custom string builders will not install speed nocks.

A custom string builder lost a million dollar lawsuit when a customer dry fired a bow....dislodged a speed nock that then blinded him in one eye....liability is the issue. You can install speed nocks based on your old factory string on your own.

LC

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Due to the litigious society in the US, 60X and many other custom string builders will not install speed nocks.

A custom string builder lost a million dollar lawsuit when a customer dry fired a bow....dislodged a speed nock that then blinded him in one eye....liability is the issue. You can install speed nocks based on your old factory string on your own.

LC

Crazy what the states award their suiers...

Most companies have moved from the press/clamp on C type and now use the "Grub" style that has to be fed on string in bow press...

Neil

[HoytAlpha35]

Originally Posted by rpm360

i'm on the fence on wbs or 60x custom I put a 60x on my Mathews but don't shoot it much but my rpm I have shot lots and this factory one is junk... 60x custom wont put speed weights on but wbs will umm

60x will sell the nocks and you can install them yourself.

Go with the slide on 'grub'. Clean looking, better colour matching, good vibration dampening, good performance.

The brass nocks aren't so much an issue when installing. The part that needs special care is when you heat the shrink tube. Dyneema is sensitive to heat and servings are made with the same type of material.

If your going for max speed then yes brass nocks, a chrono and lots of time to get the most performance.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by hoytalpha35

60x will sell the nocks and you can install them yourself.

Go with the slide on 'grub'. Clean looking, better colour matching, good vibration dampening, good performance.

The brass nocks aren't so much an issue when installing. The part that needs special care is when you heat the shrink tube. Dyneema is sensitive to heat and servings are made with the same type of material.

If your going for max speed then yes brass nocks, a chrono and lots of time to get the most performance.

:d ...x2