May have to go to the Crossbow...

[BowhuntAB]

Originally Posted by JustinC

I posted this in the other but no real come back so this is for you.


ok so you say the sucsess rates are the same. So lets put some numbers to this. If 1000 people use compound and 1000 use xbow. As for right know srd basis 15% harvest to archery so if we double the people that doubles the harvest. How the hell is that good? Our muledeer and moose numbers are down province wide so let double the sucsess rate which inturn means more dead animals. So what you all think is more opertunity in incorrect as it all goes to draw and is taken away.Time to get a archery tag would double so 410 sheep would be once every 14-18 years, 8-10 for antelope and 2-4years for an archery muledeer.Moose would all go to the draws insted of having the tiny window to harvest one with your sticks so I think we all should look at more than just what we are using but is it worth losing what we know for a hibrid gun to be a part of a archery season.I dont think so.

Hmmm....either he figured your comments where not meaningful or else he's googling some "facts" for us to see.

Can' wait to see what the professor has to say next. If anything.

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by BowhuntAB

Hmmm....either he figured your comments where not meaningful or else he's googling some "facts" for us to see.

Can' wait to see what the professor has to say next. If anything.

Yes you are probably right.As in the other one same thing with stinky does not grasp that we all are going to loose here so nothing changes at all other than no one hunt with a bow (very minimal would)and we all get the draw on everythinng and the already draws for archery would take double the time.Sounds REAL SMART TO ME KEEP UP ALL YOUR HARD WORK ABANGLER YOU WILL LOOSE TOO...

[elkhunter69]

Well, thins is an interesting idea?
Where did this come from?
I'm not about to read the 500 posts. Sorry guys.

I have shot deer and elk with everything including a Crossbow but to class a crossbow as archery is crazy talk. They are two totally different things. IMO

I was hunting in the states and my buddy handed me a Crossbow and said' "Here Jack, use this". So up the tree i went. 20 mins later a whitetail walks out at 50 yards. I raise the Excaliber put the cross hairs on em' touched the trigger and smake dead deer.

Try that with a bow. I don't think its gonna happen partners.
Maybe a later season would be fun.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by elkhunter69

Well, thins is an interesting idea?
Where did this come from?
I'm not about to read the 500 posts. Sorry guys.

I have shot deer and elk with everything including a Crossbow but to class a crossbow as archery is crazy talk. They are two totally different things. IMO

I was hunting in the states and my buddy handed me a Crossbow and said' "Here Jack, use this". So up the tree i went. 20 mins later a whitetail walks out at 50 yards. I raise the Excaliber put the cross hairs on em' touched the trigger and smake dead deer.

Try that with a bow. I don't think its gonna happen partners.
Maybe a later season would be fun.

Careful there Elkhunter, your bordering a line of being called a fibber! Certain members here, would say that cause the data the got doesn't support that. They didn't google it, or when they tried they couldn't get past 30, so theres no way you could have done that.....wait do you walk on water????

I would love to see Bowhuntab, pass his bow over to like that and see if i could slam a deer at 50 with his set up, especially im guessing Bowhuntab is probably about 3 inch longer in draw .

Sometimes people cant see the tree, standing in the middle of the forest, Thanx for the sharring your expirence Elkhunter, I think your one of the few that actually has shot and killed a big game animal with a xgun.

[AbAngler]

Originally Posted by JustinC

REAL SMART TO ME KEEP UP ALL YOUR HARD WORK ABANGLER YOU WILL LOOSE TOO...

See ya in bow season!

I'm off to have lunch.

You're mom probably has soup and sandwich ready upstairs.

[BowhuntAB]

Hahaha....i'm sure we will. Cruising around in your 1980 Blazer, hacking butts with a crossbow out the window.

[Rob Miskosky]

Originally Posted by BowhuntAB

Hahaha....i'm sure we will. Cruising around in your 1980 Blazer, hacking butts with a crossbow out the window.

Not cool BowhuntAB, please debate properly or don't debate at all.

[Rob Miskosky]

Originally Posted by AbAngler

See ya in bow season!

I'm off to have lunch.

You're mom probably has soup and sandwich ready upstairs.

Same goes here AbAngler.

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by AbAngler

See ya in bow season!

I'm off to have lunch.

You're mom probably has soup and sandwich ready upstairs.

That is funny. I bet you know nothing.You are a greedy guy and that is it. I am looking at the big picture not just me me me.

[BowhuntAB]

Originally Posted by JustinC

That is funny. I bet you know nothing.You are a greedy guy and that is it. I am looking at the big picture not just me me me.

Thats what i've been saying.
Seems like most of the guys just want to kill now!!! Who cares about the future! As long as they get a chance to stick a few additional animals now they will deal with the fall out later. That is until everything is on a draw and you have to wait years for a tag. Then these same guys will be sitting there with a blank look on there faces going...."what happened?"

[AbAngler]

Originally Posted by BowhuntAB

Thats what i've been saying.
Seems like most of the guys just want to kill now!!!

Thats completely wrong in my case.

Really gotto go now....

[ishootbambi]

how can i be wrong on numbers justin? the only numbers i have talked about are success rates. there have been several links throughout all of these threads showing that. if you are talking hunter number...i havent estimated any or linked to any studies showing what they might be. all anyone can do is guess...which really i havent done. and i wont simply because i have no idea.
bowhunt, it is ovvious where the greed lies. the anti xbow guys in thse threads have all shown a common theme. they want no new archers that could increase the archery harvest which could limit opportunities for the current bowhunting group. they are unwilling to share the season for what you guys keep saying will mean less opportunity for the group in place now.


lemme put this another way. this is hypothetical and a little far fetched, but hear it out. lets say gun control gets more ridiculous than it already is and for example a new tax came out that made a box of rifle shells cost 500 bucks, and like some european countries do now you would be forced to store your firearm at the cop shop. it is safe to assume that many people would give up on owning guns, but many of them would still like to hunt. then lets say that xbows are never accepted into archery season, but a whole new whack of vertical bowhunters are born. lets assume the number of new bowhunters is exactly the number of potential new xbow hunters that have been feared for 40 odd pages of discussion. if that played out and the numbers are what you say, would you have the same problem with the same number of new hunters if they all opted your weapon of choice? all things being the same for your argument, the same number of harvest increase and the same reaction of more draws etc.

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

how can i be wrong on numbers justin? the only numbers i have talked about are success rates. there have been several links throughout all of these threads showing that. if you are talking hunter number...i havent estimated any or linked to any studies showing what they might be. all anyone can do is guess...which really i havent done. and i wont simply because i have no idea.
bowhunt, it is ovvious where the greed lies. the anti xbow guys in thse threads have all shown a common theme. they want no new archers that could increase the archery harvest which could limit opportunities for the current bowhunting group. they are unwilling to share the season for what you guys keep saying will mean less opportunity for the group in place now.


lemme put this another way. this is hypothetical and a little far fetched, but hear it out. lets say gun control gets more ridiculous than it already is and for example a new tax came out that made a box of rifle shells cost 500 bucks, and like some european countries do now you would be forced to store your firearm at the cop shop. it is safe to assume that many people would give up on owning guns, but many of them would still like to hunt. then lets say that xbows are never accepted into archery season, but a whole new whack of vertical bowhunters are born. lets assume the number of new bowhunters is exactly the number of potential new xbow hunters that have been feared for 40 odd pages of discussion. if that played out and the numbers are what you say, would you have the same problem with the same number of new hunters if they all opted your weapon of choice? all things being the same for your argument, the same number of harvest increase and the same reaction of more draws etc.

It has to do with harvest estimates from the gov that are 15% of archery tags get filled. so if 1000 people bought a bow tag 150 animals were killed.If it goes up even 50% to 1500 peole we would also see 15% kill ratio so it would be 225 dead deer.Same as your gun control no different. It would mean over harvest and a draw would be impleneted and wait swould jump by quite a bit.I would fight either of them It has nothing to do with a crssbow it is anything else that alows more animals to be killed to have tomake changes that effect what we know and love about hunting in Ab.Also with the proposed draw cahages we all would gre screwd. I dont like the sound of that do you? Know do you see what I am talking about with numbers? We dont know exact numbers be we know they will go up but a fair margin.

[HerdBull]

Originally Posted by JustinC

I am looking at the big picture not just me me me.

I'll be honest, I'm mostly just thinkin bout "me me me" lol. I wanna still be able to go buy a moose tag every year for every zone within 4 or 5 zones of home. I still wanna go Muley huntin down south every year. I see enough stupidity in gun hunters around here to lead me to truly believe that most of them will run out and buy a crossbow so they can start early. Then a bunch of them will realize that its not quite as easy as what it seemed, and the next thing will be the mighty "pilot hole"! Lol. It already happens a lot more than most of us know, and this will almost certainly make it worse.
.
Now before 3 or 4 of you go off on what I said about gun hunters above, the ones I'm talkin about are the slack jawed morons drivin around in their pickups (or quads), beers in hand, party hunting (by both definitions lol), trespassing and shootin out the windows of the truck. I spent almost 10 years hunting a few sections of land in the bowzone, and never really was exposed to "the outside world" lol. It had both species of deer, elk and moose. With the exception of an annual spring bear trip up here, I didn't really stray too far for big game. It was a shock to the system when I went out in November last year and saw how bad its really gotten. These guys will wreck it fellas, they don't know any better and don't care to learn. Protect what you love.

[MathewsArcher]

Originally Posted by HerdBull

I'll be honest, I'm mostly just thinkin bout "me me me" lol. I wanna still be able to go buy a moose tag every year for every zone within 4 or 5 zones of home. I still wanna go Muley huntin down south every year.

X2

From SRDs proposal paper......

Significant changes that would be considered include; putting moose and mule deer hunting under the authority of Special Licences in many WMUs and reducing rifle (general) allocations where required

[ishootbambi]

so mathewsarcher and herdbull are willing to admit their motives here. anyone willing to answer the question i asked. what if it were vertical bowhunters whose numbers doubled overnight. the results you are fearing should be no different, but that awful xbow is out of the picture. id love to hear a response.....

[HerdBull]

Originally Posted by MathewsArcher

X2

From SRDs proposal paper......

Even though the word "rifle" is right there beside the word "general", they really have no business being in the same sentence as the words "moose season" lol. I don't have regs in front of me, but if memory serves, arnt there only like 1 or 2 zones you can hunt a moose with a general tag and a rifle in the whole province? I could be wrong, just something that stuck in my head.
The point of my little speech is, they are talking about general tags in archery season, and in that typical "say it without coming right out and saying it" govt way, are saying "the number of zones we can hunt a moose in archery season with a general tag is gettin slashed down to nothing.

[Rob Miskosky]

Originally Posted by HerdBull

I spent almost 10 years hunting a few sections of land in the bowzone, and never really was exposed to "the outside world" lol. It was a shock to the system when I went out in November last year and saw how bad its really gotten. These guys will wreck it fellas, they don't know any better and don't care to learn. Protect what you love.

Funny, I've spent nearly 35 years hunting "the outside world" as you put it and haven't been exposed to "how bad it's really gotten". Even back in the day when we had twice as many hunters in the field. That was many years ago, guess you were probably too young to hunt back then.

[BowhuntAB]

Originally Posted by Rob Miskosky

Funny, I've spent nearly 35 years hunting "the outside world" as you put it and haven't been exposed to "how bad it's really gotten". Even back in the day when we had twice as many hunters in the field. That was many years ago, guess you were probably too young to hunt back then.

Its bad here Rob. I have Bowhunted for 25 years in the 212 and last year was the worst ive seen it. The "old" days where not this bad. Toss in a few hundred new guys and we are in big crap.

[ishootbambi]

rob, back in the day there were twice as many hunters as today, but there is less land available today where landowners openly accept hunters. i dont think its half, but it is less so hunter number per sq mile would likely be not as different as it first seems. further, more guys it seems have gotten the trophy bug meaning the days of nearly everyone shooting the first deer they see and going home are gone. the same guys hunting more can keep pressure the same. make any sense?

[HerdBull]

Originally Posted by Rob Miskosky

Funny, I've spent nearly 35 years hunting "the outside world" as you put it and haven't been exposed to "how bad it's really gotten". Even back in the day when we had twice as many hunters in the field. That was many years ago, guess you were probably too young to hunt back then.

Admittedly, I'm young compared to a lot of the fellas around here. I've only really been huntin for about 12 years with the exception of ridin along with dad as a kid huntin grouse from the truck. This is all the experience I have to draw from, I'm doin the best I can with what I have to work with. And in those 12 years, I've seen things get progressivley worse. To give a prime example, everybody is always talkin about how under funded SRD is. Why in the world did the cost of a wildlife certificate drop then all of a sudden? Lol. That makes NO sense to me! Didn't they just go through a bunch of budget cuts? If we can afford to go huntin, the extra $7 we saved on our wildlife certificate means very little to us, but a whole lot to SRD it would seem to me.
Don't mean to go off topic here, sorry bout that lol

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by HerdBull

I'll be honest, I'm mostly just thinkin bout "me me me" lol. I wanna still be able to go buy a moose tag every year for every zone within 4 or 5 zones of home. I still wanna go Muley huntin down south every year. I see enough stupidity in gun hunters around here to lead me to truly believe that most of them will run out and buy a crossbow so they can start early. Then a bunch of them will realize that its not quite as easy as what it seemed, and the next thing will be the mighty "pilot hole"! Lol. It already happens a lot more than most of us know, and this will almost certainly make it worse.
.
Now before 3 or 4 of you go off on what I said about gun hunters above, the ones I'm talkin about are the slack jawed morons drivin around in their pickups (or quads), beers in hand, party hunting (by both definitions lol), trespassing and shootin out the windows of the truck. I spent almost 10 years hunting a few sections of land in the bowzone, and never really was exposed to "the outside world" lol. It had both species of deer, elk and moose. With the exception of an annual spring bear trip up here, I didn't really stray too far for big game. It was a shock to the system when I went out in November last year and saw how bad its really gotten. These guys will wreck it fellas, they don't know any better and don't care to learn. Protect what you love.

It is all about us us us. We all would suffer not just you or me.That is what I really ment.I think crossbow and bow people are not about us but me.

[ishootbambi]

ok justin, i see where you are going. srd has a set number of animals that they think is right to come out of a given wmu. if the bow harvest goes up, then the bowhunt will go to a draw to maintain the harvest to what they think is right. lets deal with one issue at a time. we can talk about draw changes that might or might not be in that thread. so, if the archery harvest goes up, then archery hunting will be reduced through draws. seems to be what would be best for the resource in that case (again dont bring up srd's numbers for target harvest in this one). so in short, by allowing xbows in archery season, archery harvest goes up and archery hunting opportunity will be reduced. the truth is, that is what the bowhunters dont want to give up. what they perceive as their exclusive right to buy a mule tag and in some areas a moose tag EVERY year is being threatened and that is what 45 or so pages of discussion really comes down to. the xbow itself isnt even the real root of the problem here. as i have said, if overnight vertical bowhunters were to double, then all the same scenarios would be staring us in the face. a few guys here keep saying vertical is the only way to bowhunt, but if their own numbers doubled....same cries would be heard. there have only been a few anti-xbow guys willing to admit what is obvious.

[AbAngler]

Originally Posted by BowhuntAB

Hmmm....either he figured your comments where not meaningful or else he's googling some "facts" for us to see.

Can' wait to see what the professor has to say next. If anything.

Haha! Or maybe I work for a living and don't have the time to endlessly regurgitate the same arguments over and over.

Do you guys even have a job? I'd be ****ed if I was your boss!

The one post where I linked to articles and real numbers is more then either of you two have done.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by AbAngler

Haha! Or maybe I work for a living and don't have the time to endlessly regurgitate the same arguments over and over.

Do you guys even have a job? I'd be ****ed if I was your boss!

The one post where I linked to articles and real numbers is more then either of you two have done.

Yup, and while other people work for me I get paid to distract you....lol

[ARGO GUY]

That is the best line so far Potty mouth. Funny thing is it is true and they make you dinners and lunches. hahahahhah

[AbAngler]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Yup, and while other people work for me I get paid to distract you....lol

Right on. I respect that.

JustinC, I'm the greedy one eh?

Potty, I just haven't seen any proof one way or the other. Google it, yahoo it, I don't care. My google-fu is admittedly weak, so I was hoping someone else would have better luck.

At least try and find examples of archery seasons being wrecked by letting xbows in. I did, and didn't come up with much supporting either argument.

Cheers! Gotta go.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by AbAngler

Right on. I respect that.

JustinC, I'm the greedy one eh?

Potty, I just haven't seen any proof one way or the other. Google it, yahoo it, I don't care. My google-fu is admittedly weak, so I was hoping someone else would have better luck.

At least try and find examples of archery seasons being wrecked by letting xbows in. I did, and didn't come up with much supporting either argument.

Cheers! Gotta go.

Perhaps it's still to new everywhere, so seeing the consequence will take a couple of more years. Maybe the damaging effects by then would be to late to fix. The trend you would be looking for is a balance at first and a graduale shift in numbers....it won't be a crash that everyone thinks......we are talking long term affects that people are not seeing.

[Rob Miskosky]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Perhaps it's still to new everywhere, so seeing the consequence will take a couple of more years. Maybe the damaging effects by then would be to late to fix. The trend you would be looking for is a balance at first and a graduale shift in numbers....it won't be a crash that everyone thinks......we are talking long term affects that people are not seeing.

Actually it isn't that new pottymouth. This is from the editor of Horizontal Bowhunter, Daniel James Hendricks.

This past year has been a banner year for the expansion of the crossbow hunting seasons. The first state to add the crossbow to their bowhunting season was North Carolina. For some unexplainable reason, the southern states have marched at the very front of the movement to include crossbows into the archery seasons. Wyoming has always (since the very first day of its archery season) considered the crossbow to be just another piece of archery equipment. The South answered back in 1973 when the second state to include the crossbow in its archery season was Arkansas. In 1976, Ohio was the next state to jump on the “bandwagon of common sense” making the crossbow just one more choice for its bowhunters.

For the next 26 years, a struggle was waged against a very small and dedicated group of pro-crossbow advocates (many of whom I am privileged to call friend) by a very large and vocal camp of anti-crossbow bowhunters. Throughout that time, the crossbow movement gathered data from the states that allowed crossbows, using that information to inform and educate the general-public, as well as legislators and state game management agencies. In 2002, the growing bloc of crossbow advocates had their next expansion victory when the state of Georgia moved to the crossbow side of the ledger. In 2004, another State from the Deep South, Alabama, joined the slowly swelling ranks of the crossbow camp. In 2005, it was Tennessee and Virginia that threw their support behind the crossbow by including it in their archery season.

As the struggle intensified, gains stalled out until 2008 when two more Southern States, Louisiana and South Carolina joined the enlightened and added their names to the pro-crossbow roster. That brought the total number of states that consider the crossbow to be just another archery tool to nine.

This year has been a whirl-wind rollercoaster ride for the crossbow movement as the names of five more states have been added to the list. North Carolina went first carrying on the great tradition of the South leading the way. The North finally got busy by adding Pennsylvania and the lower two-thirds of Michigan after long and intense struggles that were intellectually argued by the local pro-crossbow movements. The South spoke loudly once again, when Texas stepped across the line by legislating crossbow inclusion nearly unanimously in both their House of Representatives and their state’s Senate. The cherry on the sundae in 2009 was the sweet little state of New Jersey, which is the most recent convert to the crossbow cause. Those victories expand the crossbow hunting opportunity to approximately 2 million additional gun hunters and 618 thousand bowhunters. It is our sincere hope that these new crossbow seasons will help recruit thousands of individuals that have never hunted before to help bolster the shrinking numbers of hunters nationwide. Overall, it has been a good and successful year for the crossbow brotherhood. One fact is clear, the more direct and personal contact the hunting community has with the crossbow, the more ineffective the crossbow myths are that have been used to malign this unique hunting tool. It should be obvious to all, the snowball is picking up speed as it rolls towards the bottom of the hill. Theng and hard for the crossbow and the expansion of the crossbow-hunting season, that there will be no rest until all states and provinces accept this unique implement as just one more option for the bowhunting season.

It should also be noted that Ohio, Arkansas and Ontario have allowed crossbows during archery season for nearly 30 years. Wyoming, British Columbia and the North West Territories for about twenty years.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Rob Miskosky

Actually it isn't that new pottymouth. This is from the editor of Horizontal Bowhunter, Daniel James Hendricks.

This past year has been a banner year for the expansion of the crossbow hunting seasons. The first state to add the crossbow to their bowhunting season was North Carolina. For some unexplainable reason, the southern states have marched at the very front of the movement to include crossbows into the archery seasons. Wyoming has always (since the very first day of its archery season) considered the crossbow to be just another piece of archery equipment. The South answered back in 1973 when the second state to include the crossbow in its archery season was Arkansas. In 1976, Ohio was the next state to jump on the “bandwagon of common sense” making the crossbow just one more choice for its bowhunters.

For the next 26 years, a struggle was waged against a very small and dedicated group of pro-crossbow advocates (many of whom I am privileged to call friend) by a very large and vocal camp of anti-crossbow bowhunters. Throughout that time, the crossbow movement gathered data from the states that allowed crossbows, using that information to inform and educate the general-public, as well as legislators and state game management agencies. In 2002, the growing bloc of crossbow advocates had their next expansion victory when the state of Georgia moved to the crossbow side of the ledger. In 2004, another State from the Deep South, Alabama, joined the slowly swelling ranks of the crossbow camp. In 2005, it was Tennessee and Virginia that threw their support behind the crossbow by including it in their archery season.

As the struggle intensified, gains stalled out until 2008 when two more Southern States, Louisiana and South Carolina joined the enlightened and added their names to the pro-crossbow roster. That brought the total number of states that consider the crossbow to be just another archery tool to nine.

This year has been a whirl-wind rollercoaster ride for the crossbow movement as the names of five more states have been added to the list. North Carolina went first carrying on the great tradition of the South leading the way. The North finally got busy by adding Pennsylvania and the lower two-thirds of Michigan after long and intense struggles that were intellectually argued by the local pro-crossbow movements. The South spoke loudly once again, when Texas stepped across the line by legislating crossbow inclusion nearly unanimously in both their House of Representatives and their state’s Senate. The cherry on the sundae in 2009 was the sweet little state of New Jersey, which is the most recent convert to the crossbow cause. Those victories expand the crossbow hunting opportunity to approximately 2 million additional gun hunters and 618 thousand bowhunters. It is our sincere hope that these new crossbow seasons will help recruit thousands of individuals that have never hunted before to help bolster the shrinking numbers of hunters nationwide. Overall, it has been a good and successful year for the crossbow brotherhood. One fact is clear, the more direct and personal contact the hunting community has with the crossbow, the more ineffective the crossbow myths are that have been used to malign this unique hunting tool. It should be obvious to all, the snowball is picking up speed as it rolls towards the bottom of the hill. Theng and hard for the crossbow and the expansion of the crossbow-hunting season, that there will be no rest until all states and provinces accept this unique implement as just one more option for the bowhunting season.

It should also be noted that Ohio, Arkansas and Ontario have allowed crossbows during archery season for nearly 30 years. Wyoming, British Columbia and the North West Territories for about twenty years.

Ok , I'll take those facts. But now don't those same states offer, game farms, baiting and paid hunting, esentially, if you pay to obtain to hunting rights, you should be able to hunt with whatever legal weapon of choice........Now I'm gonna open another can of worms but, maybe I'm starting to see the benefits of paid hunting......if were gonna keep dividing the hunting population maybe the best way is on economic stature, SRD is really promoting this because they want more hunters, MORE MONEY... so if you can afford it pay for hunting...maybe I was wrong to quickly judge this.

Seems like everyone on here FOR xbows, keeps saying they wont use them anyway, so why Act like a certain country in this world that buts into everyones business, trying to protect the minority? I did the same for the pay to hunt, against it because it's everyones equal right......but really, should I care...I can Afford it and I will still hunt.