Rescission of Lougheed's Coal Policy

[teberle]

I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed more on the forum. The Provincial Government has recently lifted a set of restrictions in place since 1976 on coal mine development on the eastern slopes. Today I saw this long article on the subject from the CBC:

https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/long...ging-coal-back

I know a lot of you hate the CBC and everything it publishes. Fine then, don't read the article. But do scroll down the page until you find the interactive map and take a look at the areas which are now free for open-pit mining of coal.

If you live, for example, in southern Alberta and hunt WMU 402, as I do, this is cause for serious concern. Large areas in the southeastern and western parts of the unit are going to be subject to, at the very least, exploration (already ongoing), and at the worst, removal of entire mountains. One can imagine the effect this will have on all wildlife, but particularly the elk, which are already under huge pressure.

There has often been a chorus of outrage on this forum when governments move toward policy which might restrict our ability to hunt the way we're used to doing, eg. when OHV restrictions are put in place. Where is that same outrage when the provincial government decides they want to allow a foreign company to come in and blow the top off of Grassy Mountain?

It seems to me that if we're going to continue to use public land for hunting and fishing in Alberta, we're going to have to smarten up and learn to recognize the real threats to these activities, and take steps to oppose those threats. I look forward to reading your thoughts.

[45/70/500]

if they remove all the mountains , we will be able to see the pacific ocean, and it will be easy on the gas charge card to get to kelowna , it cant be all bad

[artie]

There already is a strip mine on grassy mountain. They are just reopening a mine that was closed in the fifties.
This project has been in the development stages for many years with the company getting the permits including environmental that are required to open a mine.
There is no industry on the Alberta side of the Crowsnest Pass. The community needs this project.
Trust CBC to show pictures of a mega mine at Sparwood that has been around since the seventies. CBC is just trying to stir up the pot They are quoting Shannon Phillips who many people on this forum have no use for.
Lets put people to work.

[pikeman06]

Yup our children will need a place to work someday. It's industry like coal mines that keep our small towns alive and appealing to young families. Have at er.

[Osky]

Originally Posted by 45/70/500

if they remove all the mountains , we will be able to see the pacific ocean, and it will be easy on the gas charge card to get to kelowna , it cant be all bad

I like that! A true glass is half full guy!

Osky

[W921]

I'm surprised that there is enough market for coal to open any new mines. For agricultural example hog barns I thought coal was or is going to be phased out? I thought coal fired electrics was about gone in Canada?
Maybe they export coal?
Where would you even buy coal in Canada except direct from Sparwood? Would they even sell it retail if you went there with your own truck?

[artie]

Originally Posted by W921

I'm surprised that there is enough market for coal to open any new mines. For agricultural example hog barns I thought coal was or is going to be phased out? I thought coal fired electrics was about gone in Canada?
Maybe they export coal?
Where would you even buy coal in Canada except direct from Sparwood? Would they even sell it retail if you went there with your own truck?

Some of the reasoning for approval is the coal will be going off shore to be used in the manufacturing of steel.
The companies that seem to be developing coal mines like this one are Australian companies. From what I understand they like to start a company get it going and then sell it to a player already in the market.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by W921

I'm surprised that there is enough market for coal to open any new mines. For agricultural example hog barns I thought coal was or is going to be phased out? I thought coal fired electrics was about gone in Canada?
Maybe they export coal?
Where would you even buy coal in Canada except direct from Sparwood? Would they even sell it retail if you went there with your own truck?

The main market for coal these days is China. Do we really want to make ourselves more dependent on that country ?

Grizz

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by artie

There already is a strip mine on grassy mountain. They are just reopening a mine that was closed in the fifties.
This project has been in the development stages for many years with the company getting the permits including environmental that are required to open a mine.
There is no industry on the Alberta side of the Crowsnest Pass. The community needs this project.
Trust CBC to show pictures of a mega mine at Sparwood that has been around since the seventies. CBC is just trying to stir up the pot They are quoting Shannon Phillips who many people on this forum have no use for.
Lets put people to work.

Exactly right on all points!

[WinefredCommander]

Grassy play should be allowed. They other two such as tent mountain in wmu 400 and the chinook play in 402 should NOT be allowed. This is big time sheep/grizzly habitat let alone headwaters. Any sheep hunter out there should be outraged because we will be losing thousands of acres to hunt in 400 and 402. Ask the BC boys how happy they are with TECK expansions and losing huntable habitat.

[xsniper]

Originally Posted by W921

I'm surprised that there is enough market for coal to open any new mines. For agricultural example hog barns I thought coal was or is going to be phased out? I thought coal fired electrics was about gone in Canada?
Maybe they export coal?
Where would you even buy coal in Canada except direct from Sparwood? Would they even sell it retail if you went there with your own truck?

How do you think China is going to supply coal to all the coal fired power plants they are building. Big market for our coal over there, better and cleaner coal than can be mined any where else.

[dalewig]

There is one proposed for cabin ridge in 402 as well. Selenium issues as a result of coal mining have been well documented , been a major problem for adjacent Teck, so let’s put a coal mine on the ridge separating our provinces two best cutthroat rivers. Makes sense to me .....

[walking buffalo]

From the article.

"In particular, there’s renewed skepticism about the government’s plan to remove 164 sites from the provincial parks system. When you plot those sites on a map, about a third of them lie in swaths of land previously protected by the coal policy.

If you look even closer, some are directly in the path of a proposed coal project.

Atrum Coal has the rights to a nearly contiguous 40-kilometre stretch of leases in the Livingstone Range. Those leases completely encircle two provincial recreation areas set to be removed from the parks system — the Oldman River North and Racehorse Creek sites — and encroach within 100 metres of a third: Honeymoon Creek."

[traderal]

Originally Posted by artie

There already is a strip mine on grassy mountain. They are just reopening a mine that was closed in the fifties.
This project has been in the development stages for many years with the company getting the permits including environmental that are required to open a mine.
There is no industry on the Alberta side of the Crowsnest Pass. The community needs this project.
Trust CBC to show pictures of a mega mine at Sparwood that has been around since the seventies. CBC is just trying to stir up the pot They are quoting Shannon Phillips who many people on this forum have no use for.
Lets put people to work.

Well said. When I read that article this morning it was very obvious that the other side always has the money to slam job creation in Alberta. We are 20 billion in debt just in Alberta. Where do you think jobs are going to come from, inventing new apps in mommies basement?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by 45/70/500

if they remove all the mountains , we will be able to see the pacific ocean, and it will be easy on the gas charge card to get to kelowna , it cant be all bad

Lol. I laughed so hard when I read remove whole mountains that I blew G2 out my nose. Then read you post and did it all again.

If they dig all the mountains out can they pile overburden east. Then we can extend some salmon rivers into Alberta.

Coal seams are layers of various thickness. A company can only mine stuff with minimal overburden as an openpit mine as it costs a lot of money to move rock around. They can mine into a mountain however it can also be expensive.

Likely the only coal to mine is the metallurgical coal needed to make electric cars.

[colvert]

Originally Posted by artie

There already is a strip mine on grassy mountain. They are just reopening a mine that was closed in the fifties.
This project has been in the development stages for many years with the company getting the permits including environmental that are required to open a mine.
There is no industry on the Alberta side of the Crowsnest Pass. The community needs this project.
Trust CBC to show pictures of a mega mine at Sparwood that has been around since the seventies. CBC is just trying to stir up the pot They are quoting Shannon Phillips who many people on this forum have no use for.
Lets put people to work.

At least Sharon Phillips tried to do something about the West Castle abuse by some users and save it for future generations. Unfortunately, economics and conservation don't seem to get along in the resource industry.

[hal53]

Like it or not Alberta is a resource based economy, and the province is in deep trouble financially. Rural Alberta needs something, anything , to give it a boost. The dreams of a "social license" being the answer was just that a dream, a very bad dream that cost us big time

[dalewig]

Originally Posted by pikeman06

Yup our children will need a place to work someday. It's industry like coal mines that keep our small towns alive and appealing to young families. Have at er.

This might be a stretch .... coal mining grand cache had to get dissolved into the county, so barely alive. Also important for children to have nice public places to go fish and hunt , as I bet in the future private land access is only gonna get tougher.

Our province is certainly in a tough spot, just destroying some of our best hunting fishing terrain for what isn’t even a huge number of jobs is a tough blow to swallow. And the coal companies are mostly Australian so is most profit even gonna stay in Alberta ? Could somewhat see grassy as it’s on existing mine , but ones further north in oldman really worry me.

[Dubious]

Pretty interesting. The ndp wanted to make parks and close down industry in the foothills Everyone hated them for it. Now the current con government wants to strip mine places like cabin ridge. In my opinion we and outdoorsmen and hunters just can’t win it’s either no access or not the access we want. I am very familiar with cabin ridge and I am not at all interested in new coal mines in 402.

[Dewey Cox]

Sheep hunting won't pay down our debt as fast as coal mining.

What is a greater benifet to every Albertan?
Tax revenue, or space for a fraction of the population to hunt on?

[Roadhunter]

Some of the best hunting areas in the Elk Valley are near Line Creek, Fording River, etc. Don't be afraid, nature will work it out.

[pittman]

When I read that article I was a bit surprised. It's clear that the AB government needs to generate some revenue, and working people are they way they do it. Investing in a fuel that is falling out of favour seems strange. I realize there is still a big demand world-wide but given the momentum of the climate movement I don't see coal being a good long-term investment.

It's a shame to see some of the beautiful country on that map get torn up.

[Penner]

Originally Posted by Dewey Cox

Sheep hunting won't pay down our debt as fast as coal mining.

What is a greater benifet to every Albertan?
Tax revenue, or space for a fraction of the population to hunt on?

Yup

[roughneckin]

Originally Posted by Dewey Cox

Sheep hunting won't pay down our debt as fast as coal mining.

What is a greater benifet to every Albertan?
Tax revenue, or space for a fraction of the population to hunt on?

As they used to say, log it, burn it and pave it. That will do er.

Through a decent source, there will only be about 30-60 people working at the mine north of Blairmore that I’ve heard of after construction is complete for some time in the future. With any large scale outfit, that’s based mainly offshore they will find a way to hide the money and pay little to no taxes (see Cargill recently in the news) in Canada. So if the company pays next to nothing in taxes we will get our share through the 30-60 folks that make about $100k/year so around $1-2 million.

Personally I think the sheep area is a much better investment long term. BC can open Tech a bit further and put those same folks to work on the bus instead or if we are going to exploit the earth let’s at least start shipping finished goods overseas and keep more jobs here rather then being a 3rd world country exploited for natural resources only. Either keep all the jobs here or stay the course and keep our wildlands for our future.

[LaWitty]

Coal seems like a bad investment to me when you consider that most of alberta’s coal mines have been laying people off over the last year to transition to natural gas. Even worse investment when you consider the toll it will have of the hunting and fishing in my opinion.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by LaWitty

Coal seems like a bad investment to me when you consider that most of alberta’s coal mines have been laying people off over the last year to transition to natural gas. Even worse investment when you consider the toll it will have of the hunting and fishing in my opinion.

That is true for fuel grade coal, much of the stuff Teck mines is for steel production from what I have been told.

[LaWitty]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

That is true for fuel grade coal, much of the stuff Teck mines is for steel production from what I have been told.

Guess Teck has been laying off employees for other reasons. Regardless of why, I think my point holds true. I understanding wanting to develop economic stability, especially in rural communities, I just don’t think this is the way.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by LaWitty

Guess Teck has been laying off employees for other reasons. Regardless of why, I think my point holds true. I understanding wanting to develop economic stability, especially in rural communities, I just don’t think this is the way.

There is less steel consumption due to the cooling of the global economy from the lockdown, this would likely be the cause of the metallurgical grade coal mines laying people off. The distinction of my comment is this is still necessary for steel production and cannot be replaced with natural gas. I ask you a question, what is a good way to provide economic stability in rural communities?

[skidderman]

I say mine all the coal they can. We need jobs. Money isn't created by osmosis like some think.

[chickensashimi]

Originally Posted by skidderman

I say mine all the coal they can. We need jobs. Money isn't created by osmosis like some think.

Can’t all be leaches, someone’s gotta support all the welfare bums out east!