Land owner tags

[Lefty-Canuck]

There will always be "haves" and "have nots"......sometimes you fall on one side of the equation and sometimes the other.....thats life.

LC

[Sneeze]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

There will always be "haves" and "have nots"......sometimes you fall on one side of the equation and sometimes the other.....thats life.

LC

Sorry boss, but I refuse to accept the status quo when its weighted against me.

I think they call it human nature.

[Pikebreath]

Believe it or not, landowner tags are pretty restrictive on how they can be attained and where they can be used.... It must be your first priority choice.,,,,You can only get one landowner tag per year,,,, only one tag per certificate title,,,, and can use it only on land you own (or are directly involved in the farming operation provided the landowner transfers his eligibilty, so under that criteria you could hunt rented land if signed off by the landowner).

No one seems to question the practice of not losing priorty if you take an undersubscribed tag which unlike the landowner tags has none of these extra restrictions.

[Justin.C]

Originally Posted by sco22

Why shouldn't there be any landowner tags for horned animals? Not trying to start a fight Jusin - I just want to hear your reasoning.

Cheers.

well why should they get to shoot a buck every year??? we all own the wildlife not land owners.also if you saw that lndowner get more tags than outfitters and resident combined plus native right. There are way to many mule bucks getting shot. Sask has no land owner tags nor nonresidents. See what you get to hunt there.... Way better bucks...PERIOD. I am not fighting.This is my opinion only.

[sco22]

It isn't human nature. Egocentric perhaps, but not human nature.

I believe there should be stats publicly available for landowner tags (perhaps there are already). If, and only if, these tags began to impinge on the healthy sustainability of a particular strain(s) of wildlife, some restrictions like those previously mentioned could be introduced. Clearly it makes no sense to continue harvesting a vulnerable or jeapordized population of animals.

The bottom line is that there are some advantages to ownership or privilege. Keep this in mind when you are asking a landowner for access to their property. One of the reasons these tags were introduced was to encourage landowners to keep hunting allowed on their land. Clearly there will be some landowners that will take this for themselves only; those that are egocentric enough to do it. However, I know of many that regularly apply for landowner tags and let non-owners hunt their property.

I wonder if those that are currently against the tags would change their mind if they owned land?

Yes I own land. No I do not apply for a landowner tag. Yet.

Cheers.

[Justin.C]

Originally Posted by Pikebreath

Believe it or not, landowner tags are pretty restrictive on how they can be attained and where they can be used.... It must be your first priority choice.,,,,You can only get one landowner tag per year,,,, only one tag per certificate title,,,, and can use it only on land you own (or are directly involved in the farming operation provided the landowner transfers his eligibilty, so under that criteria you could hunt rented land if signed off by the landowner).

No one seems to question the practice of not losing priorty if you take an undersubscribed tag which unlike the landowner tags has none of these extra restrictions.

land owner tags are EASY to get... Also how hard is it to keep everybody off your land to grow big deer and get to use the system to kill a giant every year... BS...Hell I can go become an american and get a tag every year as well.That too is a joke and needs to change....


Like I stated in the last post land owners own the land not the game.So why do they get to harvest them and we dont??? we feed them is what everyone will say.So what.... The land owner tags came in to get the land owner a tag to get a little bak and put meat in the freezer as all farmer are poor...LOL... ya ok.

[sco22]

Agreed - the Crown owns the animals, not the landowner.

I just wonder about a couple of things:

1). How many posters would change their mind if they were a landowner?
2). How many landowner tags are issued? Are we making a mountain out of a molehill?

Like I said in my text above, there is simply some privileges in this world. In exchange for this I get cut fences, gut piles and guys driving through the fields tearing it up.

I am from Northern Alberta and I don't really hunt too far south (except this year as I was drawn for mulie in 152). Perhaps this is more of an issue there? Is there really that many fewer Mulies because of landowner tags?

I am not sure we can compare Alberta to Saskatchewan in this regard and correlate their abundance of trophy animals to landowner tags. But I could be wrong - certainly would not be the first time.

Cheers.

Originally Posted by Justin.C

well why should they get to shoot a buck every year??? we all own the wildlife not land owners.also if you saw that lndowner get more tags than outfitters and resident combined plus native right. There are way to many mule bucks getting shot. Sask has no land owner tags nor nonresidents. See what you get to hunt there.... Way better bucks...PERIOD. I am not fighting.This is my opinion only.

[Justin.C]

Originally Posted by sco22

It isn't human nature. Egocentric perhaps, but not human nature.

I believe there should be stats publicly available for landowner tags (perhaps there are already). If, and only if, these tags began to impinge on the healthy sustainability of a particular strain(s) of wildlife, some restrictions like those previously mentioned could be introduced. Clearly it makes no sense to continue harvesting a vulnerable or jeapordized population of animals.

The bottom line is that there are some advantages to ownership or privilege. Keep this in mind when you are asking a landowner for access to their property. One of the reasons these tags were introduced was to encourage landowners to keep hunting allowed on their land. Clearly there will be some landowners that will take this for themselves only; those that are egocentric enough to do it. However, I know of many that regularly apply for landowner tags and let non-owners hunt their property.

I wonder if those that are currently against the tags would change their mind if they owned land?

Yes I own land. No I do not apply for a landowner tag. Yet.

Cheers.

good on the land ownersfor letting people on... I sure know a few that dont allow anybody.... This is starting to become the norm. So please explain why you deserve a buck tag every year and I have to wait as long as 7 years for a tag????

I also belevive that you must let so many people(different year to year) hunt your land to even be eligable for these tags.

[Justin.C]

Originally Posted by sco22

Agreed - the Crown owns the animals, not the landowner.

I just wonder about a couple of things:

1). How many posters would change their mind if they were a landowner?
2). How many landowner tags are issued? Are we making a mountain out of a molehill?

Like I said in my text above, there is simply some privileges in this world. In exchange for this I get cut fences, gut piles and guys driving through the fields tearing it up.

I am from Northern Alberta and I don't really hunt too far south (except this year as I was drawn for mulie in 152). Perhaps this is more of an issue there? Is there really that many fewer Mulies because of landowner tags?

I am not sure we can compare Alberta to Saskatchewan in this regard and correlate their abundance of trophy animals to landowner tags. But I could be wrong - certainly would not be the first time.

Cheers.

ask walking buffalo on the tags. we went through a few zones and there is a LOT of land owner tags given out......yes I think it does hurt our trophy potential haveing them just the same as letting nonresident come here... So why is it that alberta has no deer like SASK has???? Answer this one and you will see that land wner tags and non resident kill alot. get them out of the picture and we mght have good deer again if the government woul lay off 500 tags per zone trying to stop cwd or what ever moronic thing they are doing....

[sco22]

I don't know of any regulation that says how many people you have to let on your land to qualify. Like I said, I have not applied for one.

You are trying to say it isn't fair, but what I am saying is that you are comparing apples to oranges. It isn't fair, but the process recognizes landowners as having some impact on the wildlife that occupy their lands. Also it encourages (although I recocognize that it doesn't appear to be that way where you hunt) landowners to be responsible hunters and to work with responsible hunters including access to hunting.

Would you apply for a landowner tag if you had land?

I agree that access to privately held land is becoming tougher to get, likely for a lot of reasons. If what you say is true (I am not calling you a liar), and a landowner can shoot a trophy buck each year whilst you wait for 7 years, I would say that sounds unreasonable.

Cheers.

[Justin.C]

Originally Posted by sco22

I don't know of any regulation that says how many people you have to let on your land to qualify. Like I said, I have not applied for one.

You are trying to say it isn't fair, but what I am saying is that you are comparing apples to oranges. It isn't fair, but the process recognizes landowners as having some impact on the wildlife that occupy their lands. Also it encourages (although I recocognize that it doesn't appear to be that way where you hunt) landowners to be responsible hunters and to work with responsible hunters including access to hunting.

Would you apply for a landowner tag if you had land?

I agree that access to privately held land is becoming tougher to get, likely for a lot of reasons. If what you say is true (I am not calling you a liar), and a landowner can shoot a trophy buck each year whilst you wait for 7 years, I would say that sounds unreasonable.

Cheers.

I will use wmu 138 as an eg.... This is one of the hardest tags to draw in the province. not even half the priority 6 drew a tag this last year. between resident and outfitters there was 7 tags. as land owners had over double the tags??????


So no that is far from fair. I also never said get rid of landowner tags just the buck tags.

NO I WOULD NOT GET A LANDOWNER TAG...... I dont agree with them as pretty hard to manage anything if every land owner went and got a tag per zone.... right?????? I have family that I could get a L.O.T. from but I dont. I go out and use my bow and get what every I want in this province with it. No special tag required.




PS... I also said that should be a requirment not that it was.

[sonny42]

I have no issue with land owner tags but the landowner should only harvest does, cow elk,.

[H380]

Seems I stirred up the proverbial hornets nest again on this thread .. also seems that a lot of the people that are against landowner tags are also against bowhun ters haveing the opportunity to go out " earlier than those with rifles and take all the big deer " ... guess we'll never make everyone happy .

[BTK]

Not a very compelling argument JC. You want to win some support post some numbers/facts not just how you think it should be.

[qballs]

Originally Posted by BTK

Not a very compelling argument JC. You want to win some support post some numbers/facts not just how you think it should be.

X2. It is easy to be egocentric in your arguments, give me some researched info.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Sneeze

Sorry boss, but I refuse to accept the status quo when its weighted against me.

I think they call it human nature.

Unfortunately they don't leave us much choice....if you kind find a way please share

LC

I think the time has come in this province to look at the distribution of tags. I'd like to think the average resident is getting the bulk of those tags. I'm not against NR tags, hunter host tags or landowner tags but it seems very few controls are in place to ensure an equitable distribution. Perhaps a formula needs to be created for the distribution of tags to ensure a fair distribution.

[sco22]

So landowners got 14 tags and the draw priority got 7? I just want to make sure that I understand. If that is the case, it does sound egrigious.

Where I am coming from is that I just don't see the landowner's tag system as a big number statistically. I see it as a perk of ownership to which some people will agree and some will not.

I don't know you Justin so I will take you at your word in that you would not avail yourself of this perk if you could. However, I would hazzard a guess that most people would avail themselves of any advantage including this if given the opportunity. For example, people won't share "secret" spots or entry points to crown land that aren't obvious. Why not? Because they found the spot and they alone should benefit from this. Now this is a weak corollary to landowner tags because anyone could find your secret spot. . .not anyone could stumble upon landonwer tags (unless someone in WMU 138 happens to see this thread and did not realize they could get a tag).

Originally Posted by Justin.C

I will use wmu 138 as an eg.... This is one of the hardest tags to draw in the province. not even half the priority 6 drew a tag this last year. between resident and outfitters there was 7 tags. as land owners had over double the tags??????


So no that is far from fair. I also never said get rid of landowner tags just the buck tags.

NO I WOULD NOT GET A LANDOWNER TAG...... I dont agree with them as pretty hard to manage anything if every land owner went and got a tag per zone.... right?????? I have family that I could get a L.O.T. from but I dont. I go out and use my bow and get what every I want in this province with it. No special tag required.




PS... I also said that should be a requirment not that it was.

[Justin.C]

Originally Posted by sco22

So landowners got 14 tags and the draw priority got 7? I just want to make sure that I understand. If that is the case, it does sound egrigious.

Where I am coming from is that I just don't see the landowner's tag system as a big number statistically. I see it as a perk of ownership to which some people will agree and some will not.

I don't know you Justin so I will take you at your word in that you would not avail yourself of this perk if you could. However, I would hazzard a guess that most people would avail themselves of any advantage including this if given the opportunity. For example, people won't share "secret" spots or entry points to crown land that aren't obvious. Why not? Because they found the spot and they alone should benefit from this. Now this is a weak corollary to landowner tags because anyone could find your secret spot. . .not anyone could stumble upon landonwer tags (unless someone in WMU 138 happens to see this thread and did not realize they could get a tag).

good luck on finding my hot spot as I dont hunt that zone... I know it is one of the hardest to draw in the province so I stated it as I have talking to walking buffalo as he has every stat for all of AB on landowner/outfitter/draws tags. So I dont think the government gave him faulse documents. Heck I think he posted most of this info so all of you that think I am just full of it go check or ask him about it.



Sco22 I have no reason at all to miss lead or lie to anybody on hear.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I think the time has come in this province to look at the distribution of tags. I'd like to think the average resident is getting the bulk of those tags. I'm not against NR tags, hunter host tags or landowner tags but it seems very few controls are in place to ensure an equitable distribution. Perhaps a formula needs to be created for the distribution of tags to ensure a fair distribution.

My sentiments as well.

The blending of four management policies (Resident hunters, Non Resident Hunter Hosted, Landowner Licences, and Outfitters) is becoming egresious.

While I have been "lucky" in obtaining most of the licence information I've requested, the picture is not yet complete. Despite the fact that all Provincially issued Licences are public documents, I have been stonewalled and ignored in my requests for the information. When I have all of the pertinent information, I will share it.


My concerns and suggestions for Landowner Licences comes from spending a considerable amount of time evaluating the situation, with the information at hand. As I noted earlier, Landowner Licences (LL) are NOT limited in number by legislation. The local biologist may or may not decide to limit the number of LL issued in a wmu.

Most wmus still have a "fair" distribution of LL compared to Draw lincences, in some wmu's, there are more LL than Draw licences.

The allocation distribution of licences is heading in the direction of limiting Public licences in favour of the expansion of Landowner licences, and this gives me concern. Not only for "fair" access to wildlife, but I'm afraid that the expansion of Landowner Licences has a hidden agenda to eventually allow Landowners the right to sell these tags on the open market. Another attempt at "Open Spaces" and the privatization of Public Wildlife.





As WMU 138 has been brought up. Here are the numbers for 2010 Antlered Mule Deer. 2011 Landowner licence numbers are not available as they can still be applied for.

Note*- Resident Draw numbers may also include Non Resident Hunter Hosted. The number of Resident Draw licences may actually be less than stated.

Resident and NR Hosted Draw Licences - 7
- 223 applications were made, 2.3% success rate, does not include 999.
minimun 32 year wait to draw.


Landowner Licences - 6
Unlimited Allocation- unknown if Biologist rejected any applications.

Outfitter Allocation - 6
Bow season only - 4
Rifle or Bow season - 2



2011 WMU 138 Antlered Mule deer Licence numbers.

Resident and NR Hosted Draw - 5
210 applicants, 2.4% success rate, does not include 999.
minimum 42 years wait to draw.


Outfitter Allocation - 6
Bow season only - 4
Rifle or Bow season - 2


Landowner Licences - Unavailable at this time. Licences can still be applied for.

[gofish1]

Originally Posted by Justin.C

land owner tags are EASY to get... Also how hard is it to keep everybody off your land to grow big deer and get to use the system to kill a giant every year... BS...Hell I can go become an american and get a tag every year as well.That too is a joke and needs to change....


Like I stated in the last post land owners own the land not the game.So why do they get to harvest them and we dont??? we feed them is what everyone will say.So what.... The land owner tags came in to get the land owner a tag to get a little bak and put meat in the freezer as all farmer are poor...LOL... ya ok.

It is unbelievably difficult to keep people/hunters off of private land. I have tried signs, gates and semi-regular patrols and I continue to find trespassers on my land.

[slough shark]

I am not to much of a fan of the antlered landowner licenses myself because there is always the issue of management for trophy quality. It is rather difficult to grow big bucks if the landowner consistantly shoots the biggest buck every year on his land (I'm assuming that he would certainly try anyways and likely take a larger buck). At the very least the tags need to be limited to a percentage of regular resident tags. Also a neat idea for the landowner buck tags would be a 2 week season after the general gun season and in order to qualify for the license you need to allow a certain number of resident hunters on your land (non-neighbor and based on the amount of land). That way hopefully the intent of the tags are fulfilled (this would only be for buck tags as if someone is picking up the antlerless ones there is normally a population issue and they are letting guys on anyways) what do you guys think of that?

[huntinstuff]

Hi. I'm a hunter and I would like to hunt on your land.

Oh, by the way, I think your landowner tags should only be valid for antlerless game.

Dear AO Forums,

Wow. I was out for a drive and every quarter section of land was posted "No Hunting". WTF?




Self explanatory. Someone p'sses off a landowner and the gate closes. Simple.

[saddleup]

I am a landowner, and yes I got a landowners tag, and yes I shot a 4x4 mule deer buck today.. if you guys want to do the same its simple , just go out and by a couple of hundred thousand dollars worth of land, work the land one way or another,.. farm or ranch.. and you get a tag... if you all did this none of you would be complaining about the landowner tag. and as huntin stuff just said. just keep complainin and see how much hunting access you get.

[Rhino81]

Originally Posted by gofish1

It is unbelievably difficult to keep people/hunters off of private land. I have tried signs, gates and semi-regular patrols and I continue to find trespassers on my land.

X10. Hunters without there own land always seem to try and push their luck. My suggestion is either buy some land and get a landowners tag which you are entitled to when you bought the land, get permission to hunt on private land, which is getting harder to obtain because of the retards that dont feel they should have to ask, or go and hunt on public land which we all are entitled to do. END OF STORY!!!

[Rhino81]

Originally Posted by saddleup

I am a landowner, and yes I got a landowners tag, and yes I shot a 4x4 mule deer buck today.. if you guys want to do the same its simple , just go out and by a couple of hundred thousand dollars worth of land, work the land one way or another,.. farm or ranch.. and you get a tag... if you all did this none of you would be complaining about the landowner tag. and as huntin stuff just said. just keep complainin and see how much hunting access you get.

Times 1,000,000. That didn't take you long. You get a good one.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by Rhino81

go and hunt on public land which we all are entitled to do. END OF STORY!!!

glad to see you came around. we do all have the right to hunt public land whether its leased or not.

[Rhino81]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

glad to see you came around. we do all have the right to hunt public land whether its leased or not.

It took me long enough

[Rancid Crabtree]

[QUOTE=Justin.C;1142789]land owner tags are EASY to get... Also how hard is it to keep everybody off your land to grow big deer and get to use the system to kill a giant every year... BS..

Wow sounds like you have the answer for trophy hunting in Alberta ! And it's easy too. LOL
Give it a try and let us know how easy it is.
As I understand it the landowner tags must be approved by someone at F&W because the regs used to state landowner tags may be limited. I haven't held a LO tag for years because I prefer the general mule tag I can bowhunt without the limitations of on my own land. I expect province wide the LO tags are utilized very little. Can't comment on your specific example sounds unfortunate. It is true that wildlife is public but access to it on private land is not, don't think you are on equal ground with a landowner when it comes to hunting the wildlife on his land, that attitude just gets gates closed for good. The LO tag gives the farmer preference when hunting the wildlife on his land and he deserves it. I know the urban folks don't care but the farmers do feed the governments wildlife free and only is extreme cases are they paid for damages.

[Innoka]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

Hi. I'm a hunter and I would like to hunt on your land.

Oh, by the way, I think your landowner tags should only be valid for antlerless game.

Dear AO Forums,

Wow. I was out for a drive and every quarter section of land was posted "No Hunting". WTF?




Self explanatory. Someone p'sses off a landowner and the gate closes. Simple.

Words of wisdom my friend.

Lets all gang up on the landowners and tell them what they can and cant do and that they should only shoot does and cows because we want all the trophys. After all, they are our animals and the landowners are only providing the land. Heck, most of the landowners inherited their land so they really dont even appreciate it. What a joke!