Another Police Shooting That Will Cause Riots

[Simplefarmer]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Expound.

I just cant wait to hear your reasoning on why it is better to send a 135lb girl into situations that test big burly men. Remember they are not all Rhonda Rousey or Ming Na Wen.
A trained man likely could/would have had him on his face in the pavement quicker than she pulled her equalizer.

There really is no reasoning, a competent officer is just that, gender plays no role here... You seem to believe that woman should not be able to serve their communities, and I feel they should have that choice.

Jim

[flyrodfisher]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

oh wow that didn't take long!

Here it is;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDHbCe11c0I

[sk270]

Originally Posted by Trochu

I don't follow the news really closely, but I've never heard of an on duty officer just up and shooting someone, white or black, who was doing as requested.

Okay, I skipped a step. They shoot the guy who is running away or not getting down on the ground. It's still a traffic stop and there's no threat to the officer. Seems excessive to me and there have been a number of examples that explain why people of colour are afraid when stopped. It's different if the runner is a threat to the safety of others or the guy who won't get out reaches for a weapon.

What did you think of the Harvard study?

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Simplefarmer

There really is no reasoning, a competent officer is just that, gender plays no role here... You seem to believe that woman should not be able to serve their communities, and I feel they should have that choice.

Jim

They have that choice.

Gender plays a role when an overpowering criminal starts pushing. Not a lot of dainty figure skaters play in the NHL for a reason.

[elkhunter11]

I have no problem with women being police officers or firefighters, provided that they pass the same physical test that men do. However, that isn't the case, the women have different physical standards, and that policy puts the public, and their coworkers at risk.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by sk270

What did you think of the Harvard study?

I'm not going to pretend that I read that 100+ page document.

I'm not suggesting racism doesn't exist. I just also feel that every bad thing that happens to a black guy isn't because of racism. Seems most of these guys who are shot have prior convictions, warrents out for their arrest, are violent, etc. Does that make it right? No, I'm not trying to suggest that it's open season on people who have made bad decisions in the past. Maybe moreso that it's not surprising to hear someone who's made those live decisions was shot. If it was simply racism, wouldn't a father of three, who operate a small electrician business, with no priors, who volunteers on the weekend and coaches his daughters minor league team on the weekdays, be gunned down after speeding home after a long day on the job site as well? Maybe it does, but I never hear of that happening.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by sk270

Okay, I skipped a step. They shoot the guy who is running away or not getting down on the ground. It's still a traffic stop and there's no threat to the officer. Seems excessive to me and there have been a number of examples that explain why people of colour are afraid when stopped. It's different if the runner is a threat to the safety of others or the guy who won't get out reaches for a weapon.

What did you think of the Harvard study?

A traffic stop? Do you not think it likely they knew who they were dealing with?

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

They have that choice.

Gender plays a role when an overpowering criminal starts pushing. Not a lot of dainty figure skaters play in the NHL for a reason.

there simply are too many factors in play when someone starts resisting and all play out differently.....a billion arrests a day this one went south

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

there simply are too many factors in play when someone starts resisting and all play out differently.....a billion arrests a day this one went south

This arrest didn't go south because the officer was a woman, it went south because the officer was an idiot, and didn't know the difference between a taser and a handgun.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

A traffic stop? Do you not think it likely they knew who they were dealing with?

It's hard to tell because all the victims become angels as soon as anyone talks to friends or relatives. They are all innocent or turning their lives around.

A clearer case is the mistaken traffic stop of Lt. Nazario. How often does an RCMP officer point a pistol at someone who says they are afraid to get out of their car? I've never been asked to get out and never had a gun pointed at me. I think that's because US and Canadian police have different approaches to their jobs. There's more to the fear felt by people of colour than inflammatory articles in mainstream media.

[Jigger]

You think the Nazario case is cut and dry? have you studied case law at all and have you studied all the facts from that incident? Or just parroting what you hear from some moron on TV?

https://youtu.be/w7qtzLeWn4g

[sk270]

Originally Posted by Jigger

You think the Nazario case is cut and dry? have you studied case law at all and have you studied all the facts from that incident? Or just parroting what you hear from some moron on TV?

https://youtu.be/w7qtzLeWn4g

See my post above. I watched the video you cite in which the speaker says the police in the Nazario case made a number of mistakes including telling Nazario he had good reason to be afraid and threatening him.

Did you watch the video of the Nazario incident?

What does case law have to do with it?

BTW I have seen nothing on television about this, from idiots or others.

The video you reference said what the officers did wrong. I submit that this is why people of colour in the US are afraid when stopped by the police who are regarded as being prone to use violence.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

This arrest didn't go south because the officer was a woman, it went south because the officer was an idiot, and didn't know the difference between a taser and a handgun.

elk I didn't say it went south due to the fact the officer was female/male/pink/blue etc and an idiot I believe isn't fair either... it was a horrible mistake...in which she will be held accountable and hold this with her the rest of her life.

[Simplefarmer]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

They have that choice.

Gender plays a role when an overpowering criminal starts pushing. Not a lot of dainty figure skaters play in the NHL for a reason.

As I stated earlier, competency is the key factor in determining the outcome of this particular situation, not gender.

Your reference to professional sports means nothing again in context to the discussion.

Jim

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

elk I didn't say it went south due to the fact the officer was female/male/pink/blue etc and an idiot I believe isn't fair either... it was a horrible mistake...in which she will be held accountable and hold this with her the rest of her life.

So do you think that you could confuse a taser with a handgun? So how does an officer with 26years experience do it?

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So do you think that you could confuse a taser with a handgun? So how does an officer with 26years experience do it?

I do know one thing is that you and I will not have that answer and accept the fact that a horrible mistake was made.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Simplefarmer

As I stated earlier, competency is the key factor in determining the outcome of this particular situation, not gender.

Your reference to professional sports means nothing again in context to the discussion.

Jim

Sorry Jim I'm really not trying to argue. Just an attempt to keep it in simplest terms.
The problem is the real equalizer women carry has a magazine.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by Trochu

I'm not going to pretend that I read that 100+ page document.

I'm not suggesting racism doesn't exist. I just also feel that every bad thing that happens to a black guy isn't because of racism. Seems most of these guys who are shot have prior convictions, warrents out for their arrest, are violent, etc. Does that make it right? No, I'm not trying to suggest that it's open season on people who have made bad decisions in the past. Maybe moreso that it's not surprising to hear someone who's made those live decisions was shot. If it was simply racism, wouldn't a father of three, who operate a small electrician business, with no priors, who volunteers on the weekend and coaches his daughters minor league team on the weekdays, be gunned down after speeding home after a long day on the job site as well? Maybe it does, but I never hear of that happening.

I certainly have not read the entire document. However, the Executive Summary is a little over two pages. I usually read the Executive Summary or Abstract and then decide if I want to go deeper because of interest, questions, doubt about methodology and so on. I realize that this is putting some trust in the honesty and capabilities of the authors.

I found it interesting that the researchers found so many obstacles to their study. For example, neither police nor district attorney data were readily available. That surprised me in this computer age.

In any case, the Harvard researchers are clear that there is consistent racism in the Massachusetts justice system. The next question, of course, is whether or not the researchers themselves were biased.

Your second paragraph, while a bit exaggerated in its description of the blameless , raises some interesting and important points. I'm not sure the data are available.

I did find an article on Wikipedia that claims there are three and a half times as many people killed by police in the United States compared to Canada on a per capita basis. I also found a couple of articles that claim that while black men in the US are charged with three times as many crimes as white men, five times as many black men are killed by police compared to white men. On this very tentative basis, and leaving aside the question of racial bias in laying charges, it appears that police in the US are more likely to kill people than police in Canada and that race is a factor.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by sk270

I certainly have not read the entire document. However, the Executive Summary is a little over two pages. I usually read the Executive Summary or Abstract and then decide if I want to go deeper because of interest, questions, doubt about methodology and so on. I realize that this is putting some trust in the honesty and capabilities of the authors.

I found it interesting that the researchers found so many obstacles to their study. For example, neither police nor district attorney data were readily available. That surprised me in this computer age.

In any case, the Harvard researchers are clear that there is consistent racism in the Massachusetts justice system. The next question, of course, is whether or not the researchers themselves were biased.

Your second paragraph, while a bit exaggerated in its description of the blameless , raises some interesting and important points. I'm not sure the data are available.

I did find an article on Wikipedia that claims there are three and a half times as many people killed by police in the United States compared to Canada on a per capita basis. I also found a couple of articles that claim that while black men in the US are charged with three times as many crimes as white men, five times as many black men are killed by police compared to white men. On this very tentative basis, and leaving aside the question of racial bias in laying charges, it appears that police in the US are more likely to kill people than police in Canada and that race is a factor.

So if around 90% of gang members are a minority, do you think that it could be a factor?

https://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/s...s/demographics

[sk270]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So if around 90% of gang members are a minority, do you think that it could be a factor?

Of course. We now start to wonder why gangs are primarily made up of people of colour.

This doesn't change the fact that people of colour in the US are scared, like Lt. Nazario, when in contact with police officers. I wonder if that fear is justified or not. I also wonder why police in the US are so much more likely to shoot people than are police in Canada and Europe.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by sk270

Of course. We now start to wonder why gangs are primarily made up of people of colour.

This doesn't change the fact that people of colour in the US are scared, like Lt. Nazario, when in contact with police officers. I wonder if that fear is justified or not. I also wonder why police in the US are so much more likely to shoot people than are police in Canada and Europe.

Perhaps you should look up and compare the number of police officers killed on the job in Canada and the USA? That may be a factor.

[tri777]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So do you think that you could confuse a taser with a handgun?
So how does an officer with 26years experience do it?

I too cannot comprehend how an officer with over a quarter century of service makes such a life
altering, color blinded mistake thinking her yellow bodied tazer is suddenly black.
Not one surrounding officer notices either as she's about to pull trigger saying "Tazer" 3X.

Officer Donut thoughts are accurate/ training issues.

(Warning, heavy language/frustration)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm5SMurcZtM&t=183s

[sk270]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Perhaps you should look up and compare the number of police officers killed on the job in Canada and the USA? That may be a factor.

Do you have the data?

No doubt this is a factor. Certainly people living in the US are exposed to far more violence in their everyday lives than is the case in Canada.

This still leaves the fact that people of colour in the US are scared when interacting with police. It also makes me wonder why more law enforcement agencies in the US are not trying to get Mr. Trudeau to write gun laws for them. Maybe he could take Blair with him and leave us alone.

[tirebob]

Originally Posted by tri777

As Metallica says: 'Sad...but true'

Video showing female cop vulnerabilities.
(comments interesting also)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtjLtz6yaaU

I don't think it necessarily has to do with female versus male as much as simply being mentally and physically able to do the job required. Some woman are beasts and can take whatever is thrown. Some men are completely wussies and can't handle the wind blowing the wrong way.

In the end, a position should not be filled to satisfy a quota. It should be filled based on capability of performing the duties required, pure and simple. Sex, race or anything else irrelevant should not be the primary factor.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by sk270

Do you have the data?

No doubt this is a factor. Certainly people living in the US are exposed to far more violence in their everyday lives than is the case in Canada.

This still leaves the fact that people of colour in the US are scared when interacting with police. It also makes me wonder why more law enforcement agencies in the US are not trying to get Mr. Trudeau to write gun laws for them. Maybe he could take Blair with him and leave us alone.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmc...h=233940d11894

Around 50 officers murdered per year in the USA, compared to about 100 total since 1975 in Canada.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...bers-1.4781581

[sk270]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmc...h=233940d11894

Around 50 officers murdered per year in the USA, compared to about 100 total since 1975 in Canada.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...bers-1.4781581

Thanks.

More reasons to be glad we live here.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by sk270

Your second paragraph, while a bit exaggerated in its description of the blameless , raises some interesting and important points. I'm not sure the data are available.

Guilt! I think we're on the same page though, or just a few pages apart if we're not.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by sk270

Thanks.

More reasons to be glad we live here.

exactly.....

[st99]

imo, tatum has the best videos on the subject

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVxiWOo8Qg0

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So if around 90% of gang members are a minority, do you think that it could be a factor?

https://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/s...s/demographics

And now question: why is that?