Random Camping fees Done Deal

[MrDave]

Lmao. Provincial Park bad.

[lannie]

Originally Posted by Lornce

So....... if I drive in the evening to my favorite trout stream and decide to sleep in my truck the night to fish the morning hatch, do I need a permit?

Not if it is parked on the side of the road. If you parked off the roadway you would be random camping and need to pony up.

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

It says in the article that they have hired 20 new CO’s
A extra one specifically for the ghost area

I think this is a good idea
Makes people, just a touch, more accountable

That’s good to see, hopefully the educate the newbies and punish the slobs, it’s always a good thing to see f&w around. Last year saw f&w and some fishery guys from Manitoba on the oldman river, they were quite friendly and I was glad to see them, it was a pretty busy weekend on the river so I’m guessing they had a lot of people to check.

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

How is this going to work. Is the 30 bucks for each person? What about families, is there an age exemption like under 16 or 18 or something? It could get pretty expensive for families with a bunch of kids. If so what about a bunch of teenagers who are camping without adults or groups like boy scouts or other groups. Do boy boy scouts even exist anymore?

The $30 is for 18 and older, I missed a few things myself as I had read a different article that didn’t mention a few details

[simpatico]

More Enforcement period is what is needed.

My family has been camping, hunting and fishing south of Edson since the 1960s. What was once peace and beauty is now a red neck quad fest with all the extras. Campsites are more like garbage dumps, trails are gouged into the landscape to never be repaired, and the generally the misabuse of our lands.

On more than one occasion, I have filled a garbage bag of left behind garbage. Also, when I have stopped to ask people to stop quadding in streams I get the bird and a FU!! Most of the squatters show no respect. My apologies to the few that due.

When fines get big enough maybe people will learn to respect.

My 2 cents

Thanks
Tony

[lannie]

Originally Posted by simpatico

More Enforcement period is what is needed.

My family has been camping, hunting and fishing south of Edson since the 1960s. What was once peace and beauty is now a red neck quad fest with all the extras. Campsites are more like garbage dumps, trails are gouged into the landscape to never be repaired, and the generally the misabuse of our lands.

On more than one occasion, I have filled a garbage bag of left behind garbage. Also, when I have stopped to ask people to stop quadding in streams I get the bird and a FU!! Most of the squatters show no respect. My apologies to the few that due.

When fines get big enough maybe people will learn to respect.

My 2 cents

Thanks
Tony

And those ___hats point at coal mines and complain.

[ehrgeiz]

The cost is insignificant. Less than the gas to get out there, but keep in mind, it will go up if passed. Hunters and Anglers currently shoulder the revenue generation from recreational activity on vacant public land (read: not parks) so I am not opposed to the idea of other recreational users finally contributing, but I'm not convinced this is the way.

The issue I have here is the fundamental loss of creating a licensing system for existing on public land. We currently enjoy an incredible freedom to live a permission-less nomadic lifestyle (with some reasonable limitations). We are absolutely losing that freedom as a result of the implementation of this licensing system. We're giving up a freedom for the vague promise of funding improvement and enforcement. It's a bad deal and a trojan horse.

Once the system exists ideological politicians or bureaucrats can leverage the licensing portal to create restrictions without the burden of passing legislation.

For example, a Government could say the fire risk is too great so we're suspending all random camping licenses until further notice on the premise that Albertans can't be trusted to camp and not have a fire.

Another example, would be a desire to reduce the perceived pressure on wildlife from public recreational use so we're limiting random camping licenses to only the first 100,000 applicants.

I intend to write my MLA, but more importantly Jason Nixon as my MLA is a useless NDP plug who I suspect is only concerned that "marginalized" communities should not have to pay anyway. If all we're trying to do is solve a revenue issue, be transparent and levy the new tax to all Albertans and do not try to hide by wrapping it into a user licensing system as it has much greater, maybe unintended impact. Sans the cost of administering and enforcing a license system you could probably charge each Albertan less than $30.00 and far exceed the revenue and focus the enforcement where it's needed.

I'm open to hear arguments to the contrary if someone feels I'm out to lunch, but I think this is a big deal and we're losing a lot more than we think if we allow our Government to push this through.

[Stinky Buffalo]

Ehrgeiz, you make some good points.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Stinky Buffalo

Ehrgeiz, you make some good points.

X100

Very much points, and very important points I was thinking as well, but the way you wrote it out is even better.

I'm not for it, but I'm also not against it.ive been random camping for over 30 yrs, and have seen all the carnage. No need to explain that to anyone who goes into the bush.

If more enforcement is the answer, and that's where my money goes, then yep, I will pony up.
I've been shoulder to shoulder with a garbage bag with CO's after a May long more than once, absolutely sickening!!!

If fines, like big fines can be handed out, with more enforcement so these slobs will learn to respect our environment, I'm in!!

I don't like another law or tax shoved down our throats as much as the next guy, but what's the answer?? To me?? More enforcement and stiffer fines!!!

[lyallpeder]

Originally Posted by Moosetalker

In the news release they announced they had already made plans to hire another 20 Conservation officers and 50 additional parks and sundry staff

In my opinion the additional staff will not be enough to monitor half of the proposed green area.

So in essence the 20 new officers that should have been added to the ranks to enforce laws. Will instead become camp wardens.

I wonder if they hired 20 less seasonal COs and 50 less seasonal parks staff last year so now they will be back to traditional staffing.

[Moosetalker]

Funny thing the NDP have jumped on board to disagree with implementing this...

Not the idea just the timing because of money constraints due to Covid induced income reductions.
No doubt they would have implemented something similar if they were in the drivers seat.

My hope is if this goes through. I end up eating my words and they start ticketing the offenders.

For the last 25 years or so I have random camped I suspect I have hauled near a ton of nonburnable refuse to the dump. including 3 large bags of old torn vapor barrier left on a pole frame.

I Wonder if the receipts and fuel are applicable to a discount for the pass?

[CNP]

Eastern slopes only. I live on the E slopes and welcome this.
Doesn't apply to a high mountain sheep camp as far as I can understand
It applies to all the random camp sites that you can drive your mobile tenement (just joking guys) up to.
All the random campsites on the E slopes turn into a pig sty after a summer of mayhem.....starting on 24 May and ending on Labour Day. The gov't has already invested heavily on random camp sites (staging areas) in the SW by putting in parking areas, public washrooms and commercial garbage containers for random campers Time to recoup some of my tax dollars here.

Government of AB information is here: https://www.alberta.ca/public-lands-camping-pass.aspx

[Puma]

In theory I'm not opposed to an annual camping fee but I don't think they have thought this through.

If I go random camping with my wife, invite the in-laws (seniors) along and my 18 year old son, that 150.00 worth of permits.

Maybe a permit should be for a unit ? ie a camper, a trailer or tent ?

Is the money (tax) actually go to something useful ? or just hire camp wardens to tax more people with fines for noncompliance ?

Hunting license's and fishing license's, draws, etc are already a pretty good hit.

Again, First nations and Metis get a free pass. This is getting old.

[Big Grey Wolf]

The camp fees would obviously apply to All sheep,elk, moose camps. I have had F&W chase me up side of mountain while sheep hunting. Do not forget your wallet.

[bezzola]

I asked a game warden i know how they are going to enforce others from different provinces and he just laughed and said its going to be a gong show

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Puma

In theory I'm not opposed to an annual camping fee but I don't think they have thought this through.

If I go random camping with my wife, invite the in-laws (seniors) along and my 18 year old son, that 150.00 worth of permits.

Maybe a permit should be for a unit ? ie a camper, a trailer or tent ?

Is the money (tax) actually go to something useful ? or just hire camp wardens to tax more people with fines for noncompliance ?

Hunting license's and fishing license's, draws, etc are already a pretty good hit.

Again, First nations and Metis get a free pass. This is getting old.

Of course they have thought this through. They do not want you random camping. They want you in the campgrounds where they can keep an eye on everyone at once with readily available tracking.

Also, the majority of people that like this are going alone, walking streams getting away from everyone. They want the same as above.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Of course they have thought this through. They do not want you random camping. They want you in the campgrounds where they can keep an eye on everyone at once with readily available tracking.

Also, the majority of people that like this are going alone, walking streams getting away from everyone. They want the same as above.

Well Ken....It depends on where you are. This is all about the E slopes. The gov't of AB has built on random camping by creating an environment where there isn't a toilet behind every tree....and that's what it looked like in the E slopes before the gov't stepped in. The gov't has built infrastructure to accommodate random camping. You paid for parking, washrooms and garbage disposal........even though you did not use the facilities. Tell me what is wrong with charging users with the facilities that have been provided for them....up till now, free of charge.

Yeah.......I live in this turmoil and I go alone, walking streams, meadows and mountains.........getting away from everyone. There is no F&W that will visit my camp.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by CNP

Eastern slopes only. I live on the E slopes and welcome this.
Doesn't apply to a high mountain sheep camp as far as I can understand
It applies to all the random camp sites that you can drive your mobile tenement (just joking guys) up to.
All the random campsites on the E slopes turn into a pig sty after a summer of mayhem.....starting on 24 May and ending on Labour Day. The gov't has already invested heavily on random camp sites (staging areas) in the SW by putting in parking areas, public washrooms and commercial garbage containers for random campers Time to recoup some of my tax dollars here.

Government of AB information is here: https://www.alberta.ca/public-lands-camping-pass.aspx

The map shows the area right up to the national park boundaries.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

The map shows the area right up to the national park boundaries.

Everything W of Hwy 6, 22 and 43

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by CNP

Everything W of Hwy 6, 22 and 43

So where are you putting a high mountain sheep camp that isn't in the area on that map?

[59whiskers]

Originally Posted by puma

in theory i'm not opposed to an annual camping fee but i don't think they have thought this through.

If i go random camping with my wife, invite the in-laws (seniors) along and my 18 year old son, that 150.00 worth of permits.

Maybe a permit should be for a unit ? Ie a camper, a trailer or tent ?

Is the money (tax) actually go to something useful ? Or just hire camp wardens to tax more people with fines for noncompliance ?

Hunting license's and fishing license's, draws, etc are already a pretty good hit.

Again, first nations and metis get a free pass. This is getting old.

x 2

[MrDave]

So how come us low impact users have to pay the same amount as the ones causing the majority of the damage?

Despite some people comparing us hikers and fly fishing people to cows, when it comes to damage; it's not us causing permanent damage to the wilds. I might be able to find my footprint when I'm done, but most will never know I've been there. Off roaders, however, a blind person can find where they go. Yet the people with four ATVs pay the same fee as my family. Guess their voting for this fat bottom feeder is getting rewarded.

[Simplefarmer]

Originally Posted by MrDave

So how come us low impact users have to pay the same amount as the ones causing the majority of the damage?

Despite some people comparing us hikers and fly fishing people to cows, when it comes to damage; it's not us causing permanent damage to the wilds. I might be able to find my footprint when I'm done, but most will never know I've been there. Off roaders, however, a blind person can find where they go. Yet the people with four ATVs pay the same fee as my family. Guess their voting for this fat bottom feeder is getting rewarded.

I may have missed the new requirements for personal footwear to be registered and insured for personal use outside of the concrete jungle ?

Do not paint everyone who enjoys the back country on wheels as a bottom feeder... Personally I have always left the back country better than when I came... Those I associate with do as well, and we have also seen the footprint left behind from those who do not register their boots, nor insure them while enjoying the slopes.

Jim

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by MrDave

So how come us low impact users have to pay the same amount as the ones causing the majority of the damage?

Despite some people comparing us hikers and fly fishing people to cows, when it comes to damage; it's not us causing permanent damage to the wilds. I might be able to find my footprint when I'm done, but most will never know I've been there. Off roaders, however, a blind person can find where they go. Yet the people with four ATVs pay the same fee as my family. Guess their voting for this fat bottom feeder is getting rewarded.

I've seen some of you clowns in action as well. Pack stuff in full and leave the garbage after, I guess it's easier to pack it in full then it is to pack it out empty. There are slob of all kinds.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

I've seen some of you clowns in action as well. Pack stuff in full and leave the garbage after, I guess it's easier to pack it in full then it is to pack it out empty. There are slob of all kinds.

Exactly. Everyone is a preacher when someone is watching.