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  #61  
Old 02-02-2019, 06:14 PM
AndrewM AndrewM is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
If you badly messed up the rings, just tightening them could damage the scope.
If the person did that bad of a job then the rings would be so far out of alignment to begin with that the scope would have been wrecked anyways. People always surprise me but you would have to mess up royally while lapping to make it worse than it was to start with.
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  #62  
Old 02-02-2019, 06:27 PM
marky_mark marky_mark is offline
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Originally Posted by YYC338 View Post
And if the rifle is drilled and tapped poorly with misalignment, how will that solve the problem?
Send the POJ back to the factory
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  #63  
Old 02-02-2019, 06:31 PM
marky_mark marky_mark is offline
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Originally Posted by AndrewM View Post
Scope warranty. Not ring warranty.
Talley voids their warranty if you lap their rings
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  #64  
Old 02-02-2019, 06:34 PM
YYC338 YYC338 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claykuch View Post
Here is someone that can shed some light on this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ie3t3iLHGc&t=2358s
A lot of experience and good information in there for sure. For my money the author puts way too much blind faith and reliance and modern machining, equipment and processes without bothering to check anything.

Take for example the first scope he installed. How does he know the base holes are in 100% dead nutz alignment with the bore? How does he know the rings are dead nutz 90 degrees to the bore? He doesn't check anything but states than modern equipment in capable of great accuracy and therefore he's confident that everything is perfect.

Is he wrong 100% of the time? Not at all, and he's probably right a vast amount of the time. Is he correct in his reliance and assumptions 100% of the time. I'm betting he isn't.

One only has to take a look at the quality of the Marlin 1985 lever action rifles put out by Remington 10 years ago when they took over manufacturing from Marlin and moved to operation to New York state.

You were seeing front sight dovetails cut 10-15 degrees from horizontal on their barrels (among many other issues). You could easily see the problems with the naked eye.

You have to know Remington had modern, if not state of the art equipment in their factory. Didn't seem to help though.

It doesn't take long to check some of these things when installing bases and rings and yes, I've had to shim a couple of bases to get vertical center line alignment in the past.

Also when people put down ring lapping they always make the exaggeration that you're taking out lots of material and ruining the rings. My experience is that isn't the case most of the time. A few light passes and you can see what the contact footprint looks like. In a lot of cases, nothing more is required.

If you need to "grind" out a great deal of material, you're best to take a step back and evaluate the installation because you've got bigger problems than what lapping will solve for you.
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  #65  
Old 02-02-2019, 06:38 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Just how many thou would you have to lap out out cheap scope ring to make it true to the 'scope ? A quality ring? How much would you have to add to, or take off, a' scope tube to make it fit the trued ring ? Was the ' scope tube checked for uniform diameter? Lapping, in 99% of cases is not required. If the rings fit that poorly, take them back to the dealer and get an upgrade. Same thing with bases.
Move the 'scope ahead or back one-eigth inch and chances are that lapping job wont fit 100 %. Align it correctly on all three axis and you will not likely notice any difference, unlapped or lapped.
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Last edited by Salavee; 02-02-2019 at 06:50 PM.
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  #66  
Old 02-02-2019, 06:43 PM
AndrewM AndrewM is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marky_mark View Post
Talley voids their warranty if you lap their rings
I wasn’t talking about ring warranty. Makes sense that lapping would void a ring warranty.
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  #67  
Old 02-02-2019, 07:32 PM
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Off in the Bushes Off in the Bushes is offline
 
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So basically to get the alignment why are people not using the same tools as a millwright would use to properly align a motor to a pump then you know that A+B are aligned to one another. As indicated by the dials of a micrometer.
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  #68  
Old 02-02-2019, 07:42 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Off in the Bushes View Post
So basically to get the alignment why are people not using the same tools as a millwright would use to properly align a motor to a pump then you know that A+B are aligned to one another. As indicated by the dials of a micrometer.
Millwrights rotate the shafts with dial indicators on the couplings to do alignments, in the case of a scope, there are no shafts to rotate.
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  #69  
Old 02-02-2019, 07:54 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Off in the Bushes View Post
So basically to get the alignment why are people not using the same tools as a millwright would use to properly align a motor to a pump then you know that A+B are aligned to one another. As indicated by the dials of a micrometer.
I think, for the most part that most people don't have those tools at their disposal, and maybe the skill to use them as well.

There are plenty of rather simple tools available in the maketplace that allow someone without a lot of tool savvy to get a 'scope mounted correctly. As you probably know, it's not a complex job. Anyone can make it as complex or expensive as they wish. It just doesn't make the final result any more functional, for all intents and purposes.
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  #70  
Old 02-06-2019, 04:51 PM
Airw4ves Airw4ves is offline
 
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Anyone in the Red Deer area with a 1” Lapping Bar? Looking to do one set of rings only so dont really want to invest in a kit for one job.

I usually stick to rings that do not require lapping (Spuhr, Seekins, ATRS) but have built a LW hunting rifle with some Talleys, and would rather not mess up my optics finish.
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  #71  
Old 02-07-2019, 08:10 AM
sheep sheep is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Centerpoint alignment bars are no good. They will not tell you if you have vertical misalignment. Flat bars are better for this.
I've lapped all my scopes, I rarely use the pointed pins to check alignment and just get right to the lapping itself.

Thanks for the knowledge here Chuck, I completely understand what you mean but never really thought of turning my points around, that will work better for sure. But like I said I just usually put the solid bar in, lab for a couple minutes, remove and check how things are coming. Usually lap till I have about 75% coverage.
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  #72  
Old 06-10-2019, 11:53 AM
badbrass badbrass is offline
 
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Installed the lower half of the rings ( Ruger ) on my rifle, loose! Then put my scope into the lower rings, then tried to put the upper part of the rings on the scope, the rear upper ring went on nice, but the front ring was very tight to go over the scope tube. would lapping take care of this for me, or not? Thanks!
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  #73  
Old 06-10-2019, 05:14 PM
badbrass badbrass is offline
 
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I guess I'm more than dissapointed in RUGER that they cannot make a scope ring
that's made to match up to a scope? With today's technology and machining, you would think they would get it right! But no.
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  #74  
Old 06-10-2019, 05:21 PM
Deer Hunter Deer Hunter is offline
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I have a Clymer reamer I have used on Ruger rings. Pretty aggressive but as you said they are ring mark makers.
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