Penny for your thoughts ... should our Penny be retired?

[Enigma]

Originally Posted by go-big-or-go-home

I think we should just look at the penny itself and make it out of a cheaper metal, cardboard for all i care. Just get the cost par and keep the penny around

Why? What good is it for?

[Enigma]

bump. I just wanna see 'em together. Can you tell the difference?

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by Enigma

. . . Can you tell the difference?

Yes ... the difference is quite obvious. All you have to do is check out the links in post #1 of this thread ... as of this Tuesday, the government has taken the first 'real/official' steps to make this start to happen.

And as for your concern that two of my threads have a lot of similarities, I suggest you wait no longer ... report me to the Mods.

TF

[go-big-or-go-home]

All im saying is mabey find a cheaper material to use, to make par in the costs for making it. Or mabey its energy wise costs kinda deal, I never thought of that. And giving a few pennies with a bill to get just a bill back and no change, that helps i think.

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by sharrozap

. . . Now tell us what you will say?

Originally Posted by TriggerFinger

. . . it should have been done about 10 years ago!

Next question

TF

[SLH]

Originally Posted by go-big-or-go-home

All im saying is mabey find a cheaper material to use, to make par in the costs for making it. Or mabey its energy wise costs kinda deal, I never thought of that. And giving a few pennies with a bill to get just a bill back and no change, that helps i think.

Repectfully, I'll have to suggest that you are not quite grasping the consequences of the devaluation of our currency. It really has nothing to do with how much it costs to create any specific coin or piece of paper, it has to do with the intrinsic value of our dollar based on tangible hard currencies. If 1/100 of a dollar was worth a copper penny in 1950 and now it is worth a piece of cardboard of the same size do you not see that it doesn't have the same buying power. Yet that same amount of copper truly would be of the same value as something you bought with it in 1950. The example I like is that a hand made tailored suit that you had personally made for you in downtown Calgary or Lloydminister or Saskatoon is worth roughly 1 oz of gold. Same is true today as it was in 1900. Yet in 1900 1 oz of gold was worth around $20.00. Thus our dollar is worth less. It has nothing to do with the cost of producing a penny it has everything to do with politicians stealing our money.

[gergarin]

Rounding to the nearest 5 cents will move to the .95 end of the spectrum, simply because the amount sounds lower than next full dollar. What will be the effect,.? The loss of a one billion dollars in sales and about 50,000,000
in reduced HST or Gst recoveries

[59whiskers]

One step closer to a cashless society. The banks, credit, and debit card companies would love to see currency disappear completely. Big business and government will be able to keep track of everyones spending habits if cash is no longer available. Information about your transactions will be used for marketing purposes and not necessarily to the advantage of the consumer. I don't care how much it costs to make pennies. I do care what the cost would be to lose our choice of financing our purchases and doing business. The tax people at Revenue Canada would love to see cash gone. I am in favour of CASH, even the little PENNY.

[pitw]

Originally Posted by 59whiskers

One step closer to a cashless society. The banks, credit, and debit card companies would love to see currency disappear completely. Big business and government will be able to keep track of everyones spending habits if cash is no longer available. Information about your transactions will be used for marketing purposes and not necessarily to the advantage of the consumer. I don't care how much it costs to make pennies. I do care what the cost would be to lose our choice of financing our purchases and doing business. The tax people at Revenue Canada would love to see cash gone. I am in favour of CASH, even the little PENNY.

Very good post.

[fandgwidow]

Originally Posted by 59whiskers

One step closer to a cashless society. The banks, credit, and debit card companies would love to see currency disappear completely. Big business and government will be able to keep track of everyones spending habits if cash is no longer available. Information about your transactions will be used for marketing purposes and not necessarily to the advantage of the consumer. I don't care how much it costs to make pennies. I do care what the cost would be to lose our choice of financing our purchases and doing business. The tax people at Revenue Canada would love to see cash gone. I am in favour of CASH, even the little PENNY.

As it is now, stores can track your purchases through loyalty cards.
I too, am all for having the option to use the lowly penny and it's larger cousins.
Debit cards are easier on pockets than all of the coins, but are worse for your wallet. Ever notice that you spend more if you use a credit card? I bet that applies with a debit card over cash for most people. Sure, $198.65 on debit please. Easy, swipe, done. $198.65 with cash? Now you have to count out 4 X $50 because stores don't like $100's anymore. Then you realize to get that $50 you most likely had to earn $65 to cover the taxes before you get your share on payday. I don't know about you, but there have been a couple of times when this process has saved me from making unneeded purchases.

Anyone want to guess where this is going? Yep, cashless. Like I said before, just swipe my arm and let me leave the store. And what happens then when the bank has a computer problem? No $, no gas, groceries, anything until they get it fixed and it will be up to you to prove how much you had.

[Nait Hadya]

my intellectual property is worth much more than a penny...get rid of it

[Selkirk]

Well ... I finally got a chance to read over all the posts on this thread. It seems there is a 'HUGE' misunderstading by many folks, about what will happen when our little penny is retired. And it's going to happen ... all the major political parties are in favour of it ... it's just a matter of time!

The misunderstanding by many, is that somehow the elimination of the penny will cause all list prices for goods & services to be rounded to the nearest 5 cents. Some folks have even argued that this will happen to the sales tax too (GST/PST). Fortunately, this just isn't true ... when our penny is retired, the list price of any good or service will 'not' be effected, and neither will the tax.

The only time any rounding to the nearest 5 cents will occure is 'after' the final amount (price + tax) is added up at the cash register, and only if you pay with cash. If you pay with any other form (credit card, debit card, cheque, etc.), no rounding will occure ... you'll pay, right down to the penny amount.

For those penny-pinchers who want to take advantage of this situation, if the rounding of the final amount is in your favour, pay with cash ... if it's not in your favour, then pay with another form (debit card, etc.). Over a years time, using this method, a good penny-pincher might save themselves $2 or more in pennies, with out ever even having touched one!!!

TF

[roadkill]

Personally, I can't seem to dredge up any passion for this issue one way or the other. What TriggerFinger says echoes what I've heard, in which case it's exactly what they did in Australia, and the country didn't exactly fall into the ocean over it.

The one thing I *will* say is that, I find the cost vs value argument to be completely facile. There is no relationship between the price of stamping or printing any given monetary unit and that unit's value, so I don't see how the fact that it costs X to make a Y-cent piece means anything at all.

But as I said: get rid of it, keep it; I'll happily live with either.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by TriggerFinger

The only time any rounding to the nearest 5 cents will occure is 'after' the final amount (price + tax) is added up at the cash register, and only if you pay with cash. If you pay with any other form (credit card, debit card, cheque, etc.), no rounding will occure ... you'll pay, right down to the penny amount.

I have to doubt your theory.... can you give examples of any other country where they have a currency amount (in this case one cent) that can not be paid in actual currency?

[gunslinger]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I have to doubt your theory.... can you give examples of any other country where they have a currency amount (in this case one cent) that can not be paid in actual currency?

Very good point oko actually now that i think about it all the countrys ive been too this is the case,

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

my intellectual property is worth much more than a penny...get rid of it

Get rid of your intellectual property, Nait H??????? OK! POOF! Its gone! Carry On.

(just a little fun)

[Beerfish]

How was copper wire invented?
.
.
.
Two scotsmen got a hold of a penny at the same time.

[roadkill]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I have to doubt your theory.... can you give examples of any other country where they have a currency amount (in this case one cent) that can not be paid in actual currency?

I *think* this is what happens in Australia. When you're paying in cash, they round up or down to the nearest 5¢, I think. I'm assuming that paying by card doesn't require the rounding.

[BlackHeart]

Anybody ever load up their 12g shells with them......not saying that I did or didn't.........yet.......but just trying to think of a use for the penny. Would they have a good kill rate on the larger geese?? ...its not lead officer.....and it shore ain't real copper.....

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I have to doubt your theory.... can you give examples of any other country where they have a currency amount (in this case one cent) that can not be paid in actual currency?

A reasonable question ^ ... 'Hat's Off' to Okotokian for helping to bring some light to this subject!

Down through history, for hundreds of years, many countries have had to eliminate their lowest form of currency, due to the effects of inflation. Canada is but the most recent country to have to consider this, as the Canadian penny is now virtually worthless. What can we buy with our penny? ... nothing! And it's been that way for quite some time now.

In recent history (post Second World War) several countries have had to do this. The list is quite extensive, but I'll mention a few; England (1/2 penny), Brazil, Finland, Hungary, Sweden, Malaysia, Australia, Switzerland, Italy, New Zealand, etc., . . .

In almost all cases, the method used to deal with the removal of the lowest form of currency, is called 'Swedish Rounding' ... that's the method that will be used here in Canada. Wikipedia does a pretty good job of explaining Swedish Rounding, so I'll leave you with this link; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_rounding

Of note: New Zealand also eliminated it's 5 cent coin in 2006.

TF