Scary Calgary changes to Secondary Suite approvals

[Sundancefisher]

So in Calgary if you buy into a single family neighborhood Nenshi et al want is so that anyone can suite out their property.

This will impact property values, parking, congestion and more.

I am opposed to this as I want to have the neighborhood I bought into...not a congested rental street.

On December 11, 2017 the new Council approved some major changes to secondary suite applications in a 10-5 vote. Mayor Nenshi, Councillors Keating, Woolley, Carra, Chahal, Colley-Urquhart, Davison, Farkas, Farrell, Gondek were in favor. Councillors Chu, Jones, Demong, Magliocca and Sutherland were opposed.

Officially, they directed administration to include secondary suites as a discretionary use in R-1, R-C1, and R-C1L land use districts. Effectively, this eliminates the need for secondary suite applications across Calgary to be voted on by Council, leaving administration to decide their fate. Now any homeowner goes straight to the development and building permit stages.

Changes must be officially put into the City’s Land Use Bylaw, and a public hearing must be held before the decision is finalized. You may have received a letter about this in your mail. Your chance to speak is on March 12 in Council Chambers, and you have until March 5 at noon to submit written comments, whether for or against.

These are BIG changes that will impact the entire City, so I encourage you to visit www.calgary.ca/suitereform for more details, and all the information you need to submit your comments.

[JDK71]

He is going to turn the city into a 3 word country

[pikergolf]

Rich coming from a guy that is constantly whining about NIBY's.

[Taco]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Rich coming from a guy that is constantly whining about NIBY's.

Like!

[whiteout]

This isn’t some blanket approval of secondary suites, all it did was remove the need for council to waste their time voting on every single application. If someone wants to build a secondary suite, they’ll still have to go through the approval process, which means you can still voice your concerns about the specific DP that is submitted.

[ceadog]

Originally Posted by whiteout

This isn’t some blanket approval of secondary suites, all it did was remove the need for council to waste their time voting on every single application. If someone wants to build a secondary suite, they’ll still have to go through the approval process, which means you can still voice your concerns about the specific DP that is submitted.

+1. The Calgary process was insane and did nothing but waste people's tax dollars. The new process still gives you a chance to voice your opinion.

But I still don't think that anyone has a reasonable right to assume that their neighbourhood will never change and affordable housing is a major issue for many people.

[ReconWilly]

Calgary, Alberta's new Surrey!

Cul de sacs with driveways that are separated by 6 inches of grass, every house has 3 suites and between 3-6 cars BUUUUT only has parking for one of those cars!

Agenda 21 , herd them into denser and denser cities.

[1899b]

Originally Posted by JDK71

He is going to turn the city into a 3 word country

“Turd world country”

[jrowan]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

So in Calgary if you buy into a single family neighborhood Nenshi et al want is so that anyone can suite out their property.

This will impact property values, parking, congestion and more.

I am opposed to this as I want to have the neighborhood I bought into...not a congested rental street.

On December 11, 2017 the new Council approved some major changes to secondary suite applications in a 10-5 vote. Mayor Nenshi, Councillors Keating, Woolley, Carra, Chahal, Colley-Urquhart, Davison, Farkas, Farrell, Gondek were in favor. Councillors Chu, Jones, Demong, Magliocca and Sutherland were opposed.

Officially, they directed administration to include secondary suites as a discretionary use in R-1, R-C1, and R-C1L land use districts. Effectively, this eliminates the need for secondary suite applications across Calgary to be voted on by Council, leaving administration to decide their fate. Now any homeowner goes straight to the development and building permit stages.

Changes must be officially put into the City’s Land Use Bylaw, and a public hearing must be held before the decision is finalized. You may have received a letter about this in your mail. Your chance to speak is on March 12 in Council Chambers, and you have until March 5 at noon to submit written comments, whether for or against.

These are BIG changes that will impact the entire City, so I encourage you to visit www.calgary.ca/suitereform for more details, and all the information you need to submit your comments.

These problems don't seem to be present in Ontario where there is provincial legislation to permit secondary suites across the province.
http://www.mah.gov.on.ca/Page9575.aspx

As long as the suite is built to code, why put the homeowner through additional hoops let alone have council involve in every single approval?

I bet we will see fewer cars on the street since renters will have more options to live closer to the main transit lines and use public transit rather than living 30 minutes from the closest c-train stop. Yes, rental cost/income will go down but right now it is at such a ridiculous level.

[CaberTosser]

I like the changes, and as secondary suites are generally supplemental income for the owner/occupant most would still be occupied by the property owners, hence property upkeep would remain and places will not degenerate into rental ghettoes. City Hall has been exercising excessive control on peoples private property so far as I'm concerned, its about time they started easing off with the totalitarianism.

The worry of people in more expensive neighborhoods is misplaced because neighborhoods such as theirs are not the target of slum lords. No self-disrespecting slum lord would want to buy a place in Pump Hill simply to turn it into 3 rental suites to let out to part time barista's.

I aim to have one of those laneway suites above our garage when I build soon, the sky will not fall and my neighbors are on board. In fact, two have asked me about projected costs and might be interested in doing likewise.

[Au revoir, Gopher]

If I were to put a kitchen in my basement, it would make it a secondary suite; regardless of whether or not it will be rented out.

I have wished many times that I had a second kitchen... like when I'm processing a deer or making sausage or canning or running the smoker (walkout basement, both the garden and the smoker are on the basement level) or cooking dinner for 12-20 people (that is just a family get together for our clan), but I have never been willing to go through the application process... I might get my 2nd kitchen yet.

ARG

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by jrowan

These problems don't seem to be present in Ontario where there is provincial legislation to permit secondary suites across the province.
http://www.mah.gov.on.ca/Page9575.aspx

As long as the suite is built to code, why put the homeowner through additional hoops let alone have council involve in every single approval?

I bet we will see fewer cars on the street since renters will have more options to live closer to the main transit lines and use public transit rather than living 30 minutes from the closest c-train stop. Yes, rental cost/income will go down but right now it is at such a ridiculous level.

I lived next to a suited house. Parking was crap. Renters were messy and rude. Home owner was always ****ed off cause they couldn't evict. I was always running over to help her with this or that going wrong.

It is a problem slapping rental suites where ever someone asks. What I heard from council was that the approval will be a rubber stamp. It will be very hard to block someone from getting a suite built.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by whiteout

This isn’t some blanket approval of secondary suites, all it did was remove the need for council to waste their time voting on every single application. If someone wants to build a secondary suite, they’ll still have to go through the approval process, which means you can still voice your concerns about the specific DP that is submitted.

Not as it reads. It is purely an application process so for tracking purposes to ensure construction and renovations are done to code.

There is no Development Permit required.
**************************************************
Development permit

A development permit (DP) is an application submitted to The City for a project that either does not meet the Land Use Bylaw rules or requires a DP as directed by The City’s development approval authority. The authority exercises discretion on its decision to require (or not require) a DP. When making its determination, the authority considers the impact to neighboring properties or to the community.

This process allows The City to make sure your project will fit in with the community and gives the public a chance to provide feedback

Examples: building your raised deck up to the property line or adding a rooftop deck on your garage.
************************************************** *******
Land Use Bylaw rules are being changed such that any neighbor just needs to fill out the application and get building.

You could be surrounded by rentals without a say within a year. Doesn't sound bad if you want the rental income however if you bought into a neighborhood that didn't have that zoning before...now you will.

Scary.

Fill out the response.

[Duramaximos]

It's not against the rules to rent out "rooms" in our current system.
My neighbor rents rooms to the tune of 5 cars in the street, not to mention the 2 cars in the garage!

I'm hoping the legal suites will invite a slightly more upscale renter and reduce the parking problem in my area.

[vcmm]

Originally Posted by 1899b

“Turd world country”

Bwawawawa Thanks! That made my day

[Albertadiver]

Let's not let facts get in the way of a good story.

http://www.calgary.ca/PDA/pd/Pages/H...ary-Suite.aspx

http://lub.calgary.ca/

https://www.calgary.ca/CSPS/Fire/Doc...f?noredirect=1

http://www.calgary.ca/PDA/pd/Pages/R...signation.aspx

http://www.calgary.ca/PDA/pd/Documen...e-schedule.pdf

http://www.calgary.ca/PDA/pd/Pages/H...ry-Suites.aspx



I personally went through the whole process. We bought a home over 10 years ago that had a basement suite in it for at least 10 years before that.

It was non-conforming due to zoning. First thing I did when buying the home is put in interconnected smoke detector and egress window in the bedroom. Yeah, there was no window at all in the bedroom before we purchased.

Other considerations when you go through the land use zoning is permanent parking for the suite ON the property, the property has to be more than 50' wide, must have seperate entrance, must have its own exterior amenity space etc. etc. This weeds out a LOT of properties.

I paid close to 5K just for the land use re-zoning. It took over a year and stalled out. Shortly thereafter my long-term tenant moved out because she was engaged.

I eventually just gave up, cancelled my request because it hadn't gone to council and then had to fight to recover some of the money spent because they didn't do a darn thing. They had changed the application fee to free just after I made my application, and they weren't about to refund my money.

In the meantime I had fire Marshall's show up and a bylaw compliance officer show up and were not all that great to deal with.

Thankfully I'm in a financial position where I can enjoy my whole home now, but the land use process is archaic and completely politically charged.

If I had re-zoned my property successfully, I'd still have to meet development permit standards AND be building code compliant AND be compliant with the fire code for NEW secondary suites.

It's not as easy to make a suite compliant as one might think, although I had a few minor things to do if I proceeded.

If the land use re-designation goes through as proposed, it's still NOT easy to get a suite approved based on their standards.

[Big Sky]

You still development and building permits.
From the letter we received.
The proposed changes would mean property owners would have the ability to develop a suite without City Council approval, but would still work with Planning and Development staff at The City of Calgary to obtain Development and Building Permits.

Parking could be an issue in some areas. They'll build monuments to honour the politician who solves the parking problems in residential areas.

[igorot]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

I like the changes, and as secondary suites are generally supplemental income for the owner/occupant most would still be occupied by the property owners, hence property upkeep would remain and places will not degenerate into rental ghettoes. City Hall has been exercising excessive control on peoples private property so far as I'm concerned, its about time they started easing off with the totalitarianism.

The worry of people in more expensive neighborhoods is misplaced because neighborhoods such as theirs are not the target of slum lords. No self-disrespecting slum lord would want to buy a place in Pump Hill simply to turn it into 3 rental suites to let out to part time barista's.

I aim to have one of those laneway suites above our garage when I build soon, the sky will not fall and my neighbors are on board. In fact, two have asked me about projected costs and might be interested in doing likewise.

Totally agree 101%. I have more problem with properties being managed by this "Property Management Companies". This guys does not care because they do not live in the neighborhood. I have 4 in my area. They should make it mandatory for property owner to live on the same house before approving secondary suite.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Big Sky

You still development and building permits.
From the letter we received.
The proposed changes would mean property owners would have the ability to develop a suite without City Council approval, but would still work with Planning and Development staff at The City of Calgary to obtain Development and Building Permits.

Parking could be an issue in some areas. They'll build monuments to honour the politician who solves the parking problems in residential areas.

I asked my Alderman and read the website. Unless I miss something contrary...

If you are not ZONED for suites you need a development permit and need to display a sign on your lawn and it gets posted in the paper.

If you are ZONED which they are saying is the plan city wide then all you need is to fill out the application. You don't need any development permit ever again for a suite.

The only reason for the application process is to ensure all work is properly permitted and there safe such as electrical.

So the fact appears...you won't need the develepment permit process ever again.


Whoever you talked to is misleading you.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by igorot

Totally agree 101%. I have more problem with properties being managed by this "Property Management Companies". This guys does not care because they do not live in the neighborhood. I have 4 in my area. They should make it mandatory for property owner to live on the same house before approving secondary suite.

Not required.

Every owner renting can suite out every property. They don't need to live there. Instead of an owner in the house next door you could have multiple people renting.

That is even more scary.

[RBI]

The thing that doesn't make sense to me about the city finally making a decision ( after years and wasted dollars ) about how and where they allow
" Secondary Suites " is some of what they're allowing.

Case in point is this ... In the somewhat outer edge inner-city district that I live in , they recently re-zoned the area from R-2 to R-CG .

What this means , along with Secondary suites , a standar lot , mid-block can now have 3-units built across it , and the lots at either end of the block can have 4-units ( row houses ) built facing out to the side street .

There is one of these 4-unit row houses being built in the first lot of the next block West of me ( I come out of my back alley , and basically face this place .
So a lot that was a single family home , has now gone to 4 single family homes ( all with independent new addresses )

OK , so Here's the kicker .... They all have Secondary suites !!!

So now there are 8 units in this building.

There is a single car garage for each of the 4 primary units , but nothing off street for the rental units ( suites under 45m2 are not required off-street parking .)

And the garages that are built for the primary units , are of a decent size ...if you only have a bicycle ... :-)

So tell me that's this doesn't have Parking Circus written all over it .

And then the lot at the end of my block ,( that faces that lot , could do the same thing .

Silly hall , goes from spending years tying to figure out the ' Best " solution to all the " Secondary Suites " issues .... And this is what they come up with ????

Any ideas on the best way to get rid of a bad headache brought on from ... Banging my head against the wall ...

[Jamie]

Sundance. The financial implications of making a Suite legal are usually not worth it. Why spend $30,000 to get $1,000 per month. Thats a LONG pay back . I don't think you will see it in your Neighbourhood. At least not one that has a permit in it.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by RBI

The thing that doesn't make sense to me about the city finally making a decision ( after years and wasted dollars ) about how and where they allow
" Secondary Suites " is some of what they're allowing.

Case in point is this ... In the somewhat outer edge inner-city district that I live in , they recently re-zoned the area from R-2 to R-CG .

What this means , along with Secondary suites , a standar lot , mid-block can now have 3-units built across it , and the lots at either end of the block can have 4-units ( row houses ) built facing out to the side street .

There is one of these 4-unit row houses being built in the first lot of the next block West of me ( I come out of my back alley , and basically face this place .
So a lot that was a single family home , has now gone to 4 single family homes ( all with independent new addresses )

OK , so Here's the kicker .... They all have Secondary suites !!!

So now there are 8 units in this building.

There is a single car garage for each of the 4 primary units , but nothing off street for the rental units ( suites under 45m2 are not required off-street parking .)

And the garages that are built for the primary units , are of a decent size ...if you only have a bicycle ... :-)

So tell me that's this doesn't have Parking Circus written all over it .

And then the lot at the end of my block ,( that faces that lot , could do the same thing .

Silly hall , goes from spending years tying to figure out the ' Best " solution to all the " Secondary Suites " issues .... And this is what they come up with ????

Any ideas on the best way to get rid of a bad headache brought on from ... Banging my head against the wall ...

Parking is a problem at a buddies home. They have no garage and one spot in front of their home. As soon as they pull away neighbors rush out to park their cars closer to their home making my buddy sometimes park a block away. Nutty.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Sundance. The financial implications of making a Suite legal are usually not worth it. Why spend $30,000 to get $1,000 per month. Thats a LONG pay back . I don't think you will see it in your Neighbourhood. At least not one that has a permit in it.

3 year payout or even 6 if you added operating costs. For some it would needed for a mortgage.

[igorot]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Not required.

Every owner renting can suite out every property. They don't need to live there. Instead of an owner in the house next door you could have multiple people renting.

That is even more scary.

I think that would be the part that we have to voice out to the council since this bylaw is not yet approved. Anybody that apply for suite must live on that same address. Add to that are the multi units which are very common, duplex, triplex, multiplex they should not have legal suite.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

3 year payout or even 6 if you added operating costs. For some it would needed for a mortgage.

You may perhaps see these in the new communitys and be built by the builders. A retrofit is expensive and time consuming. Most people who want a MRTG helper are young couples/First time buyers and this is just a temporary measure. Honestly, I don't think you have a worry.

Why do it legally when you can do it with out a permit? So you get shut down? Just start again. You can do a good basement suite for $3,000 with the right floor plan. And that includes a big window. They are all over Sundance. Especially the Midnapore side of Sundance with the smaller Keith Bungalows. The floor plan with the side exit is perfect for them. Midnapore place in Midnapore has at least 5 of them that I know of.
Last week I showed a handful of houses in Millrise. Of the 6 we saw, 4 had suites in them. And no, we didn't go looking for them. I am afraid the horse is out of the barn.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by igorot

I think that would be the part that we have to voice out to the council since this bylaw is not yet approved. Anybody that apply for suite must live on that same address. Add to that are the multi units which are very common, duplex, triplex, multiplex they should not have legal suite.

Can a single family home have two basement suites?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Jamie

You may perhaps see these in the new communitys and be built by the builders. A retrofit is expensive and time consuming. Most people who want a MRTG helper are young couples/First time buyers and this is just a temporary measure. Honestly, I don't think you have a worry.

Why do it legally when you can do it with out a permit? So you get shut down? Just start again. You can do a good basement suite for $3,000 with the right floor plan. And that includes a big window. They are all over Sundance. Especially the Midnapore side of Sundance with the smaller Keith Bungalows. The floor plan with the side exit is perfect for them. Midnapore place in Midnapore has at least 5 of them that I know of.
Last week I showed a handful of houses in Millrise. Of the 6 we saw, 4 had suites in them. And no, we didn't go looking for them. I am afraid the horse is out of the barn.

I agree Keith homes would work. You need an entrance that separates.

You need it legal otherwise problems happen. One person I know had an illegal suite. Makes it really hard to kick them out as they threatened to report them. When they finally did leave they reported the illegal suite.

You said a suite cost $30,000 now $3000. Did you change or just a typo.

I agree older neighbourhood would work best however any walkout could work also.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

I agree Keith homes would work. You need an entrance that separates.

You need it legal otherwise problems happen. One person I know had an illegal suite. Makes it really hard to kick them out as they threatened to report them. When they finally did leave they reported the illegal suite.

You said a suite cost $30,000 now $3000. Did you change or just a typo.

I agree older neighbourhood would work best however any walkout could work also.

$30,000 to do it to code. Separate furnaces, Separate heat runs, fire resistant drywall, solid doors, self closing doors, fire resistant windows, sub panels ext etc etc
$3,000 to do it old school.
The list to retrofit a house is rather extensive. Even to the point of having separate laundry spaces.

Its all about the risk reward factor.
What are you as a investor willing to risk and what is your reward?

Its not easy doing that. But possible.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Jamie

$30,000 to do it to code. Separate furnaces, Separate heat runs, fire resistant drywall, solid doors, self closing doors, fire resistant windows, sub panels ext etc etc
$3,000 to do it old school.
The list to retrofit a house is rather extensive. Even to the point of having separate laundry spaces.

Its all about the risk reward factor.
What are you as a investor willing to risk and what is your reward?

Its not easy doing that. But possible.

If you can do a suite Reno for $30k then make $10k a year on the rental and put that on a mortgage over 20 years...that is huge.

For $3k there is a lot of risk not just to your house burning down but also being found out. Every neighbor who is annoyed will report an illegal suite.

Time will tell.