Wildlife Certificate & Reduced Wait Times??

[Outdoorfanatic]

Couple seasons ago Alberta tag prices took a pretty steep increase. We were told that we were behind the times with tag prices as compared to other provinces. Turns out prices in BC are significantly cheaper than what Alberta prices where never mind currently are. Again increase the cost deters the fringe members and new members which in the long run is bad for all. Unless of course your logic is too be the last individual to hold a gun and hunt, caring nothing about whether there is such a thing as hunting for future generations. Remember if you consider yourself one of the die hard old guard hunters then the only way hunting continues beyond you is if you get someone new involved now. And remember new people stay involved in large part due to the camaraderie they experience with you. So if you advocate high fees, stricter access, more bureaucracy then there's little chance new people will want to make the effort.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by H380

Good job lefty , i agree ..maybe a few of the powers that be should read some of the ideas put forth in this thread ...as for activists still putting in and taking tags at least they would finally be paying something toward conservation ...anything is more than they do now.

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I submitted a regulation change through one of the user groups, it basically spelled out how to measure and what metrics to use to prove residency with a minimum time frame required before one would be eligible for resident benefits.

LC

[dennisb]

I'd really like to see a deadline to purchase your Special Draw tags as well. If you don't purchase it by a certain date it goes back into the Unsubscribed pot. Its frustrating to hear guys get a awesome draw tag and then not even attempt get out for whatever reason.

[Peebles]

It's hard to take the "problem" or government seriously when they don't quantify the issue. No information about the predicted decrease in wait times or how many draws this affects, and no explanation about the before to the province when they "encourage draw applicants to actively hunt in the upcoming season". They also don't compare it to any other possible remedies.

Unless there is a unreferenced published policy document I'm unaware of that does a real analysis this can only be seen as a cash grab and nothing to do with helping hunters or wildlife. There are some good suggestions in this thread - Lefty-Canuck's posts are most insightful - but I'm disappointed nobody else here thought numbers or facts were needed before debate.

As far as better solutions cracking down on residency requirements and a shooting test sound good to me. Being forced to buy any special license you are drawn for would also obviate this indirect Wildlife Certificate solution.

[NCC]

The number of tags given out is determined by the success rate. If the success rate goes up by limited the draws to only dedicated hunters, SRD will issue fewer tags. Less applicants, fewer tags issued, same wait times.

The real issue is the lack of ungulates on public land. If the moose and elk populations in the mountain and boreal forest zones recover, that will only leave antelope with a long wait for a draw tag.

[jrileyw]

I sure wish people would look at the fact that areas/WMU’s that have general across the counter tags have huge wait times on draws. The only way that this will change is if all species are on or in the draw system.
Also with our draw system we should be able to apply for cow elk as well as bull elk, or cow moose and bull moose or all the sheep draws.
I would also like to see an archery season, muzzleloader/shotgun season and a rifle season for all species under draw.

[waldedw]

Unless something is done about year round indiscriminate hunting our wait times for a draw will continue to get longer and eventually we will be at 10 - 12 years for a moose tag, when certain groups of people move into zones and slaughter 50 - 60 moose in a week, cow's, calves, bulls, literally whatever moves it takes years for them to recover, all of that takes it's toll on the population of the animals and on the people that must purchase a tag and enter the draw system, which by the way are the same people that pay for the entire system and conservation of those same animals. But nobody in any level of government wants to address that situation, better to bury your head in the sand and look there for a solution to the problem.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by jrileyw

I sure wish people would look at the fact that areas/WMU’s that have general across the counter tags have huge wait times on draws. The only way that this will change is if all species are on or in the draw system.
Also with our draw system we should be able to apply for cow elk as well as bull elk, or cow moose and bull moose or all the sheep draws.
I would also like to see an archery season, muzzleloader/shotgun season and a rifle season for all species under draw.

Splitting the draw based on sex (antlered/antlerless/either/calf) for moose and elk actually helps draw times come down. Allowing everyone to enter under the current system would make them longer. That’s because the “elk” pool is split 3 ways. Antlered /antlerless/ either sex draw. If everyone could enter in every class of draw wait times increase not decrease. Limiting entries in the draws having people pick and choose takes pressure off certain draw classes. One factor we can’t change, we can’t add more animals to the draw system, so we need to find a way to make the system fair for those who enter. Residency requirements is one way to assist with this.

If you have a pool of 1500 hunters and 500 put into each draw (split evenly), you have a 1 in 500 chance of pulling a tag. Now if all those 1500 can put into each class of draw and you enter all 3, like everyone else... you have a 1 in 1500 chance to draw a tag. Obviously this is a basic example.

LC

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Jessemc

Seems everyone is onboard with increased price (within reason) and maybe this wildlife purchase will help as well.

I’ve been saying this for years.

[Smoky buck]

Putting residents first is a step that should be done. Having a 6 month waiting period to become a resident would help. Remove non residents from the draw pool is another by either eliminating non resident draws like some other provinces or a non resident draw with limited tags available. These kind of ideas have been thrown around often but they are good ideas in my opinion

One that may not be popular but would likely make an impact is to make it so you can only enter 1 draw per species. Another would be to change draws exceeding an average 10year wait time become random draws no more priority system

No matter how you slice it unless there is an increase in game numbers you are left trying to eliminate the number of applications in the draw pool. To improve wait times you have to step on toes and **** some people off

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Peebles

It's hard to take the "problem" or government seriously when they don't quantify the issue. No information about the predicted decrease in wait times or how many draws this affects, and no explanation about the before to the province when they "encourage draw applicants to actively hunt in the upcoming season". They also don't compare it to any other possible remedies.

Unless there is a unreferenced published policy document I'm unaware of that does a real analysis this can only be seen as a cash grab and nothing to do with helping hunters or wildlife. There are some good suggestions in this thread - Lefty-Canuck's posts are most insightful - but I'm disappointed nobody else here thought numbers or facts were needed before debate.

As far as better solutions cracking down on residency requirements and a shooting test sound good to me. Being forced to buy any special license you are drawn for would also obviate this indirect Wildlife Certificate solution.

What "facts" did Lefty-Canuck provide?

He offered suggested changes, without providing any background data to prove a problem nor that his changes would effect a cure. Just as F&W did.… Not picking on Lefty here, just providing a fact.


Let's take a different perspective on this proposed change.

Why would it be wrong to require people to support our wildlife/hunting management system by requiring a Wildlife certificate purchase as a condition to apply for the draw?

I can't think of one legitimate reason why we shouldn't have to buy a certificate to apply in the draw.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Putting residents first is a step that should be done. Having a 6 month waiting period to become a resident would help. Remove non residents from the draw pool is another by either eliminating non resident draws like some other provinces or a non resident draw with limited tags available. These kind of ideas have been thrown around often but they are good ideas in my opinion

One that may not be popular but would likely make an impact is to make it so you can only enter 1 draw per species. Another would be to change draws exceeding an average 10year wait time become random draws no more priority system

No matter how you slice it unless there is an increase in game numbers you are left trying to eliminate the number of applications in the draw pool. To improve wait times you have to step on toes and **** some people off

Making all draws requiring 10 years or more to draw , lottery draws won't reduce draw times on average. Some people may be lucky, and draw sooner, but the unlucky people may never draw a tag.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Making all draws requiring 10 years or more to draw , lottery draws won't reduce draw times on average. Some people may be lucky, and draw sooner, but the unlucky people may never draw a tag.

It removes the whole issue of wait times because it puts everyone on a level playing field. People’s issue is that wait times are too long well this way you could be drawn your first year if you are lucky. If you want to go further make it so those who are successfully drawn can’t reapply for the draw for a set number of years

Like I said no matter what is done to prevent crazy wait times with some priority hunts a portion of people are not going to like it.

[Peebles]

It seems my post was unclear for some readers. Another way to express my point is to say that the first step of problem solving is problem definition. Since this problem is not defined no solution should be accepted or enacted.

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

What "facts" did Lefty-Canuck provide?

First of all, you're on my ignore list for posting falsehoods, so I'm surprised you care about facts at all. Secondly, you misread my post. I didn't say Lefty-Canuck posted facts. I was talking about suggested solutions and said his post offered the best list of those. I spoke of my own inquiry when I wondered why no one else felt the details were relevant.

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Why would it be wrong to require people to support our wildlife/hunting management system by requiring a Wildlife certificate purchase as a condition to apply for the draw?

Because it hasn't been established as effective or the best method to solve a problem that may or may not exist.

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

I can't think of one legitimate reason why we shouldn't have to buy a certificate to apply in the draw.

Inability to think is not an effective method to determine public policy.

[sacan]

I blame Joe Rogan

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by dennisb

I'd really like to see a deadline to purchase your Special Draw tags as well. If you don't purchase it by a certain date it goes back into the Unsubscribed pot. Its frustrating to hear guys get a awesome draw tag and then not even attempt get out for whatever reason.

And don't let the person who drew participate in future draws, until he pays double the tag fee, as a penalty for denying the tag to someone that applied, and didn't draw.

[K.J]

If the thinking is buying a wildlife certificate to apply will stop the antis from applying then this is a good idea. I doubt the cost will stop them. But having to take and pass hunter training to get the certificate is more likely to keep them out. This is a great thing.

[Jjolg123]

Originally Posted by sacan

I blame Joe Rogan

haha this actually made me laugh

[RZR]

Originally Posted by thumper

Every year? Even for draws taking over 10 years ?

Some have more money then brains! All they have to do is get rid of nonresident tags and this would open up more tags, or reduce how many draws your allowed to enter per year to 2 or 3 draws.

[Moosetalker]

KJ came up with a valid point about needing to take the first time hunter course to get a WC in the first place.

Just needs to be enforced.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by RZR

Some have more money then brains! All they have to do is get rid of nonresident tags and this would open up more tags, or reduce how many draws your allowed to enter per year to 2 or 3 draws.

Some don’t have money or brains
Being able to apply for 2-3 draws a year is the worst idea I’ve heard

I think they need to have system to make sure that people aren’t claiming to be residents of different provinces
And have Even a 30 day wait period to buy a resident tag

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by RZR

Some have more money then brains! All they have to do is get rid of nonresident tags and this would open up more tags, or reduce how many draws your allowed to enter per year to 2 or 3 draws.

Agreed. Unclog the draw system. Pick a 2-3 draws. Not 15

[RZR]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Some don’t have money or brains
Being able to apply for 2-3 draws a year is the worst idea I’ve heard

I think they need to have system to make sure that people aren’t claiming to be residents of different provinces
And have Even a 30 day wait period to buy a resident tag

Greed is a wonderful thing!

[bakerman]

If you really want to reduce wait times for tags, start getting rid of all the stinking predators that are wiping out game populations, the old timers had it right when they came in and cleaned out the country, now you see or hear more predators out west then anything else and we wonder where all the game animals are. It's the way our wildlife has been managed but it is fixable.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by RZR

Greed is a wonderful thing!

You obviously don’t think before you talk
Being able to only apply for 2-3 draws still leaves the system open To be exploited very easily

[dave99]

I support the purchase of a WC in order to enter draws, and see it as a step in the right direction. Here are how it affects my family:

I hunt every year, choosing to build priority across the board and draw a special license for a different species every year. I would end up purchasing a WC regardless of my draw situation, so no skin off my back.

My wife hunts infrequently (most years does not hunt although she accompanies me on some hunts), but also builds priority for most species. She now needs to pony up the WC fee which she would not have otherwise purchased. No big deal, and worth it to have high priorities by the time our kids turn 12 to partner up with them.


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[cody j]

We should be paying full price for the tag up front. Money refunded if not drawn. I think some states will give you your money and priority back if you have a serious illness or death in the family preventing you from using the tag. Arizona has a program you can enter where you can give your tag back before the season starts without losing priority points, I’m not sure the exact details of it. Draws in Alberta are cheap right now, people complain about the thought of even a small price increase.Right now It would cost me more money to pay my internet bill to come on here to complain about application costs, than the actual cost of applying for a whole pile of tags.

[Deer Hunter]

Buying a WC just to apply for draws is horse ****. Just up the price of the draw applications.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Buying a WC just to apply for draws is horse ****. Just up the price of the draw applications.

Proposed Changes for 2021:

 A full review of licence and draw application fees is being conducted to align fees with other jurisdictions, improve efficiency and decrease overall complexity by consolidating licences and draw codes.

Looks like you’ll get your wish next year.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Buying a WC just to apply for draws is horse ****. Just up the price of the draw applications.

It isn't the cost of the WC that keeps out the anti hunters, it's the fact that most won't take the hunter safety course in order to apply. Increasing the application fees won't have the same effect, as to keeping away the antis.

But it would help to make it mandatory to purchase the tag if drawn, and if they don't purchase it, make them pay double the tag cost , before they can apply for draws again.